Hi all,
I've been reading threads for a long time, trying to find some help. My H and I have been married for 12 years, together for 15. We have 4 children. I could go on forever, but I will cut to the chase. I have caught H talking to 5 different women over the last 4 years. Each time, he says it was nothing, only having 'fun', doesn't mean anything and will stop. H stops talking to the woman of the moment, and is good for awhile, until he starts it all over with another one. The last one we fought about was in 10/09. I told his sister of his actions, and almost threw him out of the house. He cried, swore up and down he wouldn't do it again, and we moved on. I have been plan Aing the crap out of him, but still protecting my heart by installing flexispy on his Blackberry. Well, a few days ago I see many text between him and a NEW b* and it's in beginning stages, flirting and such, he told her he would take her out for lunch, just choose the place, today she sent him messages about being sick and he didn't notice...so on. My question is, what should I do? I'm so sick of the same situation over and over, my heart can't take it anymore.

Hi justsad,

Unfortunately, a lot of people don't think that an EA is actually cheating and therefore, see no reason to stop. I am not in a position to give real advice but there are plenty of people who can and will be on the board later.

In the meantime, I would read everything on this site, order Surviving an Affair, download the questionnaires and continue to gather evidence and expose to people who you think may be able to exert influence on your WS to stop what he is doing.

Do you know who these women are and how he is meeting them? Are you sure it is only emotional? You will need to do a bit more digging.

Good luck.

Dear TravelMonkey,
Yes, I know who they are, they all worked with him at some point or another. I know the current one works with him now. I know it just started, can tell by the way they talk, nothing TOO intimate, just flirting back and forth, yesterday 26 messages between them, all about when he should invite her out, where they should go, but nothing really personal. With other women it was more sexual talking, but I'm sure nothing physical. I have read all things here, and have doing plan A for 4 years, yet he still goes back and starts talking with a new one after breaking it off with old one.

Most of us here were also sure.

All of these relationships sound to be at least EAs. This is cheating. EAs cause just as much harm to your M as PAs.

Sounds like you need to do some more snooping. Is all of his time accounted for? Does he acyaully take these women out to lunch?

MicheleG,
Yes, all his time is accounted for, he comes home straight from work and stays. I have to say, that we live in a different country, and it's very conservative. He has yet to take her out, as this conversation was only yesterday.

Did he take the other women out from before?

Not that I'm aware of, but I can't say 100% he didn't. I just don't know what to do, am I supposed to keep spying to see if it gets worse, or confront him now and nip it in the bud? Exactly what am I supposed to do if every time I confront, he says "he made a mistake, he loves me, it's not worth destroying our marriage over nothing" and he's good for a while. I do plan A. It doesn't seem to be working if he just finds some other girl to talk to.

Plan A is only one part of surviving infidelity.

Plan B is mean to follow Plan A, and to me, it sounds like by not following the next step, Plan B, you have harmed your marriage.

Plan A is about changing your own choices...eliminating, LBs, exposure of the EAs, identifying and meeting ENs, and following the four rules of marriage.

When the EAs continue, to write the Plan B letter and implement it. It's essential. You just missed that part.

After the first EA, and your WH saying "it was nothing" and sticking to it, you weren't in recovery...and you haven't been. No new extraordinary precautions, no healing and no real understanding of the damage WH did to your marriage, to you and your family.

Don't accept non-recovery. Don't sign up for limbo. Time to expose to his work the 26 inappropriate (and non-work related) texts, stating you know there is and will be more, write out the Plan B letter, steps required for the way back (including EPs, ownership and amends), and for the marriage, and for your own love bank, go dark.

You can do this...Plan A'ing for four years is unheard of...not healthy...still, your strength is commendable. Use it for your marriage now and Plan B.

LA

justsad,
You need to decide what your boundaries are. Your husband most likely keeps talking to other women because there are no consequences for him doing so. You keep taking him back after the flimsiest of apologies. Unless you change your reaction to his disrespecting you and your marriage, you can expect him to continue this until one of you dies.

If I were in your shoes, I would confront him now, but do NOT give up your source of intelligence (flexispy). Its a bit backhanded, but I would most likely tell him that you are happy that he has given up speaking to other women because you will not go through that again. Set a boundary. "If you did start talking to other women again, you would immediately lose me." Base your actions off his next move. Does he send her a message saying he won't talk to her anymore? Then you have probably ended this potential EA but you continue to watch him like a hawk, even though he suspects you have no idea. Maybe he just needs to hear a definitive boundary.

Or does he try to verify their lunch plans? Then you know he is intent on continuing to mislead you and your next step is to enforce your boundary, whatever it may be.

The point is, set a boundary for him talking to other women, and ENFORCE it if he tries to cross it. If you continue as you are, you will just end up as his doormat.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and hoping for a different result.

What do I recommend?
YOU put your money where your mouth is.

Pack his stuff.
Meet him at the door.
Hand him his stuff.
Say very few words.

Example:
"You broke your promise about flirting with other women. I'm keeping my promise. You're out of here."

He'll fuss and complain and whatever.

Hand him a piece of paper with the phone number for counseling with the Harleys.

Call toll-free 1 (888) 639-1639

Say:
"Let me know when you have completed the first session yourself. Then we'll talk. Now go."

Then NO MORE TALKING.

Close the door and get busy doing something with the kids.

Until you take definitive actions, he'll continue to see how much he can get away with.

Hand him big juicy consequences - and stick by them!

I whole heartedly concur with Pep.

You HAVE to put your money where your mouth is. Nothing will change until he feels the consequences.

print out every conversation you can record, for awhile. Keep it elsewhere outside the home, if you can. Gather up all the phone numbers or emails for all his family, your family, this current OW's family...and I'd even throw in the former OW as well as any OTHER women he knows - you know, just for good measure.

Then sit down one day, and contact ALL of them. Tell them about his inability to control himself. Ask for help stopping him. When he comes to you, mad, tell him you are willing to give him ONE chance to go to rehab for this issue of his, and you are willing to let him stay with you as long as he is transparent. If he balks, say fine, and kick him out.

Then hand him his Plan B letter as you lock the door.

Dear All,
I know you are all right. I should give you all a bit of background information. I have posted before, but I forgot my user name, so some of you may have read this before. Anyway, I have talked to his mom and sisters. They talk to him, he says it's 'nothing' and I tell him to stop all contact, he does. My H is from another country (Arab) and I am American, we live in his country. Here it is legal to have 4 wives so if I were to tell people, a lot of them wouldn't see a problem. His family is not traditional and are very much on my side everytime I talk to them. There is no point in reporting it to his work, as his boss openly cheats on his wife, no problems, only gossip. Here people say 'he's a man' or 'all men do that' because they don't know how marriage should be. They have arranged marriages and are more like roommates with their spouses rather than real partners. We have never been like that, we used to share everything, he was my best friend. The women here are evil. They don't care if a man is married or not and therefore, when he stops talking to one, there are hundreds ready to take her place. This is a fairly strict country, the locals can not openly date, women must be virgins when they marry, so on. I have talked to some of the previous women, they, of course, tell me that H is just a friend, they are sorry, will never contact H again, and they don't because their reputations are at stake. I can't go around threatening to ruin every girl's rep that talks to H. H is the problem because he likes the attention, loves that other women are attracted to him, but doesn't seem to care how much it hurts me. He is such a hypocrite, it's unbelievable. He condemns those who cheat, but I guess doesn't recognize that what he is doing is exactly that. I have talked to him about it before. He 'agrees' with everything I say. There is no ILYBINILWY or anything. He will stop cold when I confront, he'll cry, repent, plead, beg and be the perfect H, until another one presents herself. Of course, it the beginning he says he's not doing anything wrong, he's not cheating. Or he will get mad, because 14 years ago, before we were married, I kissed some other guys (2), I told him about it at the time, but everytime I confront him now, he'll say, "You started it, I'm finishing it" or "everyone makes mistakes" "everyone has flaws". I made my mistakes BEFORE marriage, and have trying for 14 years to make it up to him. I have only been loyal and faithful since. I know I have to plan B him, but so worried about what to tell the kids. His mom lives with us and supports me 100%. I know this was long, sorry.

H and OWW (other woman of the week)are still messaging, I don't have the flexispy version for spycalls, only call logs, sms, and emails. Nothing much today, just like "how are you", and "work is brighter now that you are here" Should I keep spying until to see how far he'll go, or confront him now?

Is there a possiblity this is addictive behavior?

The reason I ask, is he seems to know what he can lose, and stops, but continues in the behavior anyway. Does he engage in other compulsive sexual behavior.

I wonder sometimes how many S's on here are sex addicts? My H is one. It seems not all S's that cheat are sex addicts, but most sex addicts will cheat, especially if they are serial cheaters, there is probably other acting out behavior they engage in also...

Just a thought.

Can women be sex addicts, or is this a man-only phenomenon?

I have often told him I think he had an addictive personality. For example, he doesn't drink except on weekends, but when he does drink, he doesn't just get buzzed, most times he gets pretty messed up. He just got back from a business trip in L.A. and went to Vegas for 3 days, gambled the whole time, gambled until he lost almost all the money he had with him. He stops his behaviors, it's not like he's an alcoholic, we have alcohol in the house, but he doesn't drink it everyday. How would one deal with someone with addictive behavior? I am sure he's addicted to the rush of flirting with other women, having them admire him, tell him he's handsome and so on, he knows what he has to lose, yet he keeps following the same pattern.

One does not have to drink every day in order to be an alcoholic. My WW, for example, says she was a binge drinker (which may be what your WH is). The definition of an alcoholic is someone who has lost control over the *first* drink. In other words, once the first drink has passed their lips, there is no telling how many more there will be, nor when it will stop.

Yes, women can be sex addicts too. Usually women are addicted to the rush of romantic love, sometimes that is called a love addict, they don't 'need' the sex, but are addicted to the attention from a guy.

The first step is the realization, the next is getting help.

It is likely that he has a binge-type addiction. He doesn't need a constant flow of his addiction to maintain a level of numbness, but he uses other means to help him cope when he is under stress. Think back about his binges and determine if there was a stressful trigger right before.

I had suspected my H's addiction long before we received help. I met with resistance from him, family members, friends, even therapists ("every guy does it"). My H's drug of choice is internet p*rn.

I realized it was a problem when I asked for limits (clear the hard drive when he was done, put magazines up and out of the way) and he wasn't able to do this...

We are now both in recovery. I attend COSA meetings and he attends SAA. I have understood my part in this, that I got caught up in watching, snooping, anger, and I have removed myself from much of my behavior too. I spent so much energy on dealing with him and his addiction I was ignoring my life and my children.

Much of what I deal with I read often on here from BS, but dealing with the addiction is like living with infidelity year after year. Where many BS's get a reprieve from the infidelity, it seemed like I did not.

Since recovery there are many things wrong in our M we were never able to piece together because there was the large looming elephant in the room of addiction. He was inattentive and distracted, was not really "there" in affect or support.

Since starting in recovery, I understand a good deal more about the addiction in our family and what it looks like, and I can stop much sooner and ask for what I want. I am no longer willing to accept a M where I am put on the back burner (or I put myself there). I am more readily getting my needs met, and have a H that is more accepting of my EN fulfilling.

We are getting out of the shame cycle of addiction...where he feels ashamed and I feel angry and hurt and these two affects feed each other...

But we are just starting and sometimes we fall back...

Sorry to TJ, I hope this helps. Take it if you need it, and if it doesn't speak to you...then find what does.

But what I have found is your partner doesn't have to admit SA or to be in recovery in order for you to find help. Find a COSA meeting near you and talk with people there..you will find kindred spirits...

It sounds like him, I should research more about addictive behavior. I know there are no COSA meetings here, like I said, we live in a very conservative Islamic country, and they tend to not talk about their problems AT ALL. I have a question, do I still proceed with plan B? Can anyone give me suggestions for a plan B letter if I should proceed? I can't give him the regular one, as I'm not trying to get him to stop with 1 person, I'm trying to get him to stop his behavior and not do it again.