I agree, you seem to be putting the blame staunchly in your W's court, when I think it is a marital problem that can be resolved with the Harley's help.

Is there a reason you don't want to look at the part you play in it?

I mean I'm silent on the situation, that the traffic doesn't bother me, the line up at the rest. doesn't bother me. Do I tell her to shut up? I use to say, it's not so bad etc etc, she would find away to disagree with this, so why let her start something like that? That's foolish. I think when it's an opinion, we are capable of keeping it to ourselves. She can't even though there will be nothing anyone can do. I'm not silent when it matters.

The rest. thing was an example. It's relative. To her it's a traffic jam and the resturaunt is packed. To me I don't notice or care. She gets into things, THEN SHE FINDS OUT SHE DOESN'T LIKE IT, instead of saying, "we are going tent camping. if it rains our tent is waterproof, we'll survive it and have fun playing cards." instead it would be 100 things I did wrong, first by making it rain and...

I'll take a stab at it. First of all, what's wrong with do-it-yourself and small appliances? I mean, if both partners are on the same page with this, I don't see anything wrong or unhealthy about it. Sometimes, the need for SF is very different for the two partners, and this seems like a viable option to me to help satisfy the person with the higher drive. These are even things that can be enjoyed together and can actually help spice things up in a relationship. Lets face it, it's easy to fall into a rut in the bedroom, especially after many years of M.

It shouldn't be. If it is viewed as such, I think that is pretty disturbing.


There was a thread awhile ago (may have been lost in the meltdown) where it was discussed that SF is different than the other ENs because your spouse is supposed to be the only person fulfilling that need while other ENs could possibly still be met by others. I'm sure there are women who withhold sex as "punishment" but honestly I think they are in minority. If sex is sparse, IMO there are deeper problems than lack of SF - that would only be a symptom.


Not for me but I don't think of M as bartering.


Not sure what countries you are speaking of but M in some countries is simply a matter of survival. I don't think what you are speaking of is taboo so much as cultural differences.

But it's not OK, because you resent her diarreah of the mouth. It's not OK to be silent because it is not honest.

You don't want to be around her when she is complaining. Do you tell her that?

If sex is enjoyable and the prospect of sex with a person to whom you are emotionally close then that would be attractive to a selfish person. If the prospect is not attractive, then obviously there is something wrong. People don't have sex because they are not selfish, that has nothing to do with it. They do because it is enjoyable. And what makes it enjoyable for a woman? Emotional attachment to the man and the prospect of enjoyment.

I have my faults. I am very mellow. I have been through very much in my short life and nothing rattles me. If I get rattled it's not much, but my wife freaks because she knows if it worries me it must be serious, so I tend to minimize. I also tend to change my sails, I am not overly optimistic or pessimistic, it just is.

I do not care about those two plates in the sink, I wait until the sink is full then proceed to clean it spotless. My W wishes I would just clean it spotless when there is two dishes. I reason that I would be cleaning it spotless continuously and not have time for anything else. (this is an example of other things as well, not just two dishes)

I had a tendency to work a lot and play hard where she wanted more balance. In my field it was all or nothing, she knew this, but ignored the thought and wanted it her way. Can't have it both ways.

She wanted me to initiate with the kids more, but I got verbally and emotionally criticized so badly for so long when I did, I stopped. Just avoid putting myself in the line of fire. Nothing different than what you see on sit coms. Happy wife, happy life (while you cry away your youth).

My H tends to be a whiner too. He is a chronic malcontent and here is how we wiped that out. I mean, he honestly does not whine and complain anymore since we figured this out. He used to agree to do things "just to keep the peace." He didn't want to SEEM disagreeable so he would agree to things he really didnt want to do - thinking that would make me happy - and be MISERABLE and look for fault the entire evening.

We discussed this and he PROMISED to never agree to anything that would make him unhappy just becuase he thought it would make me happy. But, I had to FIRST assure him over and over again that I would not get mad at him if he declined.

AND, in the case of his agreeing to do something that turned out bad, we AGREED that if it was going badly, THAT WE WOULD LEAVE. We would abandon the activity and leave early. Just this agreement has calmed his anxiety down immensely.

This did alot to calm down his whining, but he was in the habit of gratituous bitching over things that can't be controlled,[to a degree] ie: traffic jam ups. He knows that is a lovebuster to whine about it, so he has stopped. [enemy of good conversation!] EVEN THOUGH, we do try to always avoid traffic so he won't be upset. We try to avoid situations that will upset him.

The way we resolved these problems was by being open and honest about them and looking for solutions that made us both happy.

I don't like the use of porn, especially since we are all here due to As. Appliances are more acceptable to me. But what would the threshold be? There are some who think sex 2-3 a week is not enough, others who think that is sufficient and would not see the need for other methods, and then there are others those who would would want to use other methods even with sex 2-3 a week. The problem comes when people hide it from their spouse and there is no POJA or even discussion.

Ok, so what about that 1 in 10?

Nope, it doesn't show through in the real world like it does here.

We hold hands, we cuddle, we kiss some, we spoon.....

Yes Yes Yes
Not together.
She is resistant to such things.

I have read SAA and about every article on this site, but not HNHN.

Mel,

So why would my wife or any other wife stay with a husband who the prospect of sex is not enjoyable for years on end? I'll answer... FS, yeah they're ok with that aren't they. (sorry for that, gawd that was rude, but needs to be out there) I understand what you are saying Mel, just have a hard time with the EN SF, how it is different and the double standard with it and the other EN.

Still,

It's not complaining, it's "opinion" we've gone there, that is why I say things are too relative. If it's not one thing it's another and the "another" is relative at "this moment" so it should suffice until "other" excuse comes up that is also relative.

You have never built a mutually satisifying lifestyle. What you describe are behaviors that lead to incompatibility. I don't think you even try, or maybe you don't understand how to try. You cite that she is this way and you are this way even though some of those ways are annoying to each other. This is the kind of incompatible lifestyle that precludes romantic love.

You are sitting on a gold mine and don't even know it.

Mel,

My W loves to go a long with anything, it's the in between that could "make it so much better if the world thought like me" attitude that kills me. She is actually realizing that she can't control those in between things at the young age of 46, but that still doesn't prevent her from "voicing her opinion".

You may not care, but your wife does. You assume that if you put the dishes in the dishwasher or cleaned them that she would expect you to constantly be cleaning. You are demonizing her based on your assumption. When you say you don't care, your wife probably hears it as you don't care enough about me to care. It may not annoy you but it annoys your wife. That leads to resentment.



She wanted balance so it's a bad thing? You seem very caught up in this is how it was in the beginning so this is how it is going to be...the end...deal with it.

The problem is that she is ok with these swings of ups and downs and the lack of SF is my problem.

Mel,

She has never initiated any kind of marriage tool. It's always been me. I'm just here venting that I'm exhausted from it and told her I'm exhausted from it. You know what she said? She was exhausted from it too. I couldn't figure out what she meant at first. She meant she tries and gets tired. I'm saying I'm exhausted from being the only one who is lifting and finding out that she was just watching the whole time. She tried if I brought it up and continued to push for it, when I would take a break, she stopped completely.

It's one of those things that you do over and over thinking there will be change, but there isn't any.

We have a ton in common about lifestyle. We eat right, exercise, want healthy happy kids, work with them on things, agree that tv is horrible and don't have cable/sat. I love simplicity and since adopting that herself she loves it too.

This resentment may also be the result of unfulfilled EN. In my case, it was the opposite: I rinsed the dishes and put them in the dishwasher right away. WW would simply let things stack up in the sink. And though she would clean them ultimately, I usually beat her to it, since I'm a "clean as you go" type of person.

I never harped on her about this. I did try to get the stepkids to be more cognizant (at least put the dishes in the sink instead of leaving dirty dishes and utensils lying all over the place) -- without any support from WW.

Then, WW turned it on me, that I was trying to usurp her parenting of HER kids. As a non-custodial parent, her opportunities for parenting were few and far between.

It turns out she isn't very good at it either, looking back on it...

br,

point well taken about the dishes, got it. Work is another story, that deserves it's own website!!!

sign up for the Marriage Builders class in January, themud. Quit screwing around. Just the little things you write about here are recognizable as things that would cause incompatibility and annoyance and unhappiness. I don't know how you expect to have a happy marriage this way. I would not be happy.

The quote thing is going haywire on me, but Gack, the thing that makes me think it may be some residual hormonal thing from giving birth with your W is the fact that she seems to have no trouble showing you A (cuddling, spooning, etc.) but is only bothered by the SF. This is so unbelievably common after the birth of a baby. You never did say whether she was breast feeding or not. Breast feeding often has an adverse affect on desire. Not all problems show up in blood tests either.

I realize my lack of trying to meet my W EN now are hurting us. I should have been on here when I was doing everything to meet them, like a continual Plan A for years.

Thanks Mel.