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#2285948 12/10/09 09:38 AM
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We went to our 3rd MC yesterday. I've had about 15 IC's, my FWW has had 2.

The only thing of substance that came out was the therapist FINALLY picked up on my wife's anger issue. She actually addressed it and suggested regressive hypno, with me there to fully understand where in childhood she got it from. I've done about 3 regressive hypno's with the therapists.

My wife walked out saying there is NO WAY she is doing any hypno, lol. At least she wasn't angry when she said it to me. It was important for someone other than myself, or our kids, to point out to my wife that she does have some anger issues. But the other part is my wife never admits when she is wrong, and is a controller, and she isn't about to give control to a therapist, or anyone.

We once again, didn't talk about the core problem, the reason I initially made the first appt....my wifes past infidelities. Its all about the 'I' statements, and how she felt back then, blah, blah, blah. The therapist said that places such as MB do not help as the people here who post are not 'experts'. I told her they have done something that SHE has not...they have walked in my shoes. They have walked in my wife's shoes. They have felt, or in most cases, are feeling, the pain of infidelity. I told her that YOU have not felt the pain, YOU have no idea. She didn't say much else.

That said, we are for sure not going back to her. I know, we may try Harley on here. I pay practically nothing with my insurance for seeing a therapist, in 'network', so money is a bit of an concern, but not more important than our marriage.

We have some more research and thinking to do.


Me: BH, 49 yrs old
Her: FWW 44 yrs old
A's occurred in 1988
Dday #1 (2 A's) Aug. 26, 2009
Dday #2 (3 A's) Sep. 5, 2009

My story: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/u...744#Post2279744

Not sure where we are going...?


codtej #2285997 12/10/09 10:40 AM
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She sounds clueless to me. Glad you aren't wasting your time with her anymore.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
codtej #2286210 12/10/09 01:04 PM
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I have yet to hear from a single person who paid for the Harleys and regretted it.

codtej #2286230 12/10/09 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by codtej
The therapist said that places such as MB do not help as the people here who post are not 'experts'. I told her they have done something that SHE has not...they have walked in my shoes.


cod, she is partly right, the people here are not experts and don't claim to be. We are just a support forum; posters just like you. The experts are the HARLEYS. And while they are not cheap, you will get your moneys worth with them. They don't waste your time yakking about your childhood, they focus on the present and the future. They don't focus on FEELINGS, which is very ineffective, but they focus on CHANGING BEHAVIOR.

If I were you, I would find the money and use them rather than waste your time with "free" counselors who don't know how to save marriages.

That being said, marriage counselors have a dismal 84% FAILURE rate and don't have the slightest idea how to save marriages. We see the fallout of their handiwork here every day. You would get much more good out of reading His Needs Her Needs and following hte program there than going to a traditional marriage counselor.

a poster asked on the forum a few months ago why we should put any faith in MB and here was Dr Harley's response:

Quote
5outof6aintbad:

When I found that the model I've developed had helped over 90% of those I was counseling, I gave up my career as a college professor and started counseling full-time. At the time, I didn't assume that it would save all of the marriages it seemed to help, because I felt there were factors beyond a couple's control. But after 35 years of experience with this model, I'm not convinced that it works with 100% of couples who follow it. I've yet to witness one couple out of the tens of thousands I've seen, that did not experience a healthy and happy marriage by following this model. Personally, I feel it's the only answer to the question, how can a couple have a great marriage for life?

But it's very difficult to prove that one model of marital satisfaction is superior to another. The ultimate test is to randomly assign couples to various models and to measure their marital satisfaction after the provisions of each model have been implemented.

The training of therapists is a huge problem: How can we be sure that the therapist assigned to each model was properly trained? And there's also the problem of representation and random assignment: Does the group of volunteer couples represent the population at large? And is the assignment to treatment groups really random? There's also the ethical problem of assigning couples to a control group where they receive no effective treatment. When they divorce, does the researcher bear any responsibility? Finally, if someone who has a stake in the outcome does the research, it usually shows that their approach is best. Shouldn't studies of alternative models of marital satisfaction be conducted by those neutral to the outcome?

My own personal experience led me to the model I've been using for the past 35 years. But that's not proof of it's superiority over other models. What I need is objective studies conducted by those who have no bias that compare this model to others. That's hard to find even among those who have published hundreds of articles on martial therapy.

But I can direct you to three studies that support my enthusiasm. They all deal with my book, His Needs, Her Needs, the popular application of my model, and the effect it has on couples that read it.

The readers of Marriage Partnership Magazine were asked which self-help book on marriage helped their marriages the most. In that survey, His Needs, Her Needs came out on top. I didn't know that the survey was even being conducted, so when I called the editor after the results came in, I was curious to know more. He told me that it not only was the top choice, but it was far ahead of second place (Ron R. Lee. Best Books for a Better Marriage: Reader's Survey . Marriage Partnership Magazine, Spring 1998).

In a national survey that I sponsored, people were asked if any self-help book on marriage solved their marital problems. Out of 57 books that were read, only three were reported to have actually solved marital problems. The three were the Bible, James Dobson's Love for a Lifetime, and His Needs, Her Needs (Lynn Hanacek Gravel. Americans and Marriage: National Survey of US Adults. Barna Research Group, 2001).

Finally, five out of six couples that read His Needs Her Needs were found to experience significant improvement in marital satisfaction (Julie D. Braswell. The Impact of Reading a Self-Help Book on the Topic of Gender Differences on One's Perceived Quality of Marriage. Doctoral Dissertation, 1998, Azusa Pacific University.

Granted, these findings are not conclusive evidence that the model I use is superior to every other model of marital satisfaction. But when you find one that works for every couple that actually follows it, you have to be impressed. And coming as I did from almost zero effectiveness to almost complete success, I can't begin to tell you how convinced I am that it's the solution to a very difficult problem we face in our society.

I hope this helps answer your question.

Best wishes,
Willard F. Harley, Jr.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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just reposting for emphasis:

"In a national survey that I sponsored, people were asked if any self-help book on marriage solved their marital problems. Out of 57 books that were read, only three were reported to have actually solved marital problems. The three were the Bible, James Dobson's Love for a Lifetime, and His Needs, Her Needs (Lynn Hanacek Gravel. Americans and Marriage: National Survey of US Adults. Barna Research Group, 2001).

Finally, five out of six couples that read His Needs Her Needs were found to experience significant improvement in marital satisfaction (Julie D. Braswell. The Impact of Reading a Self-Help Book on the Topic of Gender Differences on One's Perceived Quality of Marriage. Doctoral Dissertation, 1998, Azusa Pacific University."


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Thanks everyone, seriously.

She told me, in our last session, that it was not 'normal' that I had to go to a internet forum to find out something that was bugging me. This one particular issue she was talking about was when I was sometimes crying after my wife and I had sex, or even sometimes during sex, (not lately I must say). The therapist told me its not normal to have the need to find out what others felt about that subject. I should be in tune with myself and I should wonder why I, (capital I), feel like that, not why others do.

I told her I didn't know why I did feel like that, and I wanted to know if I were crazy and the only one who felt like this. I said if I should not go onto an internet forum to seek answers, then why is it ok to go to YOU to find the same answers? You have been to school on marital issues, these people have 'been there, done that' and know EXACTLY what I feel. You do not know how I feel. I've told her this several times, she isn't receptive of my comment.

I said, sure there's some info on the forums that's not very helpful, but I take the good with the bad. A vast majority is very helpful, however. It's like when I go to a Mustang forum and ask a tech question. If I get 30 answers that's the same and a few here and a few there that are different, I tend to go with what the majority say. Or apply what I already know, with some of what I've learned on the forum. I do the same on forums such as MB.

My wife and I are learning a lot on our own, and starting to listen to each other, I mean really listen and feel what we both need from each other. Its baby steps, but we are moving forward a bit.

We will ck into the Harleys and the books, maybe HNHN? thanks




Me: BH, 49 yrs old
Her: FWW 44 yrs old
A's occurred in 1988
Dday #1 (2 A's) Aug. 26, 2009
Dday #2 (3 A's) Sep. 5, 2009

My story: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/u...744#Post2279744

Not sure where we are going...?


codtej #2286734 12/10/09 10:27 PM
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cod, in your situation, you need Surviving an Affair and I would supplement with his 5 Steps to Romantic love WORKBOOK. He sells all these books very cheap with fast, cheap shipping in the MB bookstore.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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There is also a fairly cheap video you can watch. He sells it for $9.00 but I think oyu can watch the whole thing for free too. He is giving an overview on his program in it. I will go look for it, brb.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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'ML', thanks, I researched those books and they seem that they will be perfect. My wife and I will ck out the clip as well. I think, HNHN, Surviving an affair and 5 steps to romantic love workbook will be ordered tomorrow.

Thanks again.



Me: BH, 49 yrs old
Her: FWW 44 yrs old
A's occurred in 1988
Dday #1 (2 A's) Aug. 26, 2009
Dday #2 (3 A's) Sep. 5, 2009

My story: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/u...744#Post2279744

Not sure where we are going...?


codtej #2286743 12/10/09 11:07 PM
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I just watched that video again, I forgot how good it is!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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That was a very good video. Wish WW could watch.


-SOL
_SOL #2286762 12/11/09 12:36 AM
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I long for the day my WW will be sane and sober enough to watch it.


Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
St. Francis of Assissi

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