Work isn't really any different. You and your W both sound like my H. My H thinks he is a simple person yet makes everything into a project or pushes off responsiblity onto me because he doesn't care what I decide...but then complains when I pick X. This is why POJA is so important and why you can't allow the cycle to continue. It will destroy your M to the point that neither of you will care.

Without going into detail, why do you feel you can't find more balance with work and play?

Maybe I am not being clear.

Cuddeling, is fine, spooning is fine, an ocasional kiss is fine, hand holding is fine, all these are fine, In any combination, or all together. But if I make any move to go further,....... Instant shut down and complete change of mood.

I'm not talking about sudenly sticking my hand down her pants, or groping her in some way. It does not matter how subtle it is, once she knows what we are doing might lead to sex....Well thats it, where done.

She has a complete change of attitude and demenour.

That usually trigers her A in my mind. All the excuses and fog bable come back to me like it was yesterday.

I'm just tired of it.
It must change or we will not last.



And no, she is not breast feeding now.

Gack,

I can't remember but what is the story with OC? Is there NC with OM or is he still in your lives because of OC?

Complete NC

It could be a combination of things. I see OC is almost a year old. The first year of parenthood is very tough even without all A stuff to deal with. Is the baby sleeping through the night? Teething?

When my first was that age, I was still exhausted. SF was the last thing on my mind at the end of the day not to mention still feeling unattractive for carrying around the extra weight. Does your W get any sort of break during the day from the baby. Do you ever get a sitter on a weekend or have the baby at grandma's overnight?

Good point. The first year is tough. Mine is 14 months now, and just starting to sleep through the night with a fair amount of regularity. I didn't sleep for more than 4 hours in a row for at least 6 straight months. That really messes with everything. A baby really turns your entire world upside down. All I wanted to do was sleep. SF was the furthest thing from my mind at night.

Hi Gack,

I just wanted to say wow to you. Not many would take on an OC as their first (and only for now) child.

Gack,

This discussion may belong in the OC forum but I'll ask here -

Your siggy says your W in somewhat foggy...do you get the impression she is still mentally in fantasyland? I rarely peek into the OC forum so maybe this has already been discussed. Putting the SF aside for a moment are there any other signs that are troubling? I have not read up on your situation as of late but she may still be in withdrawl. Since OC is her first and only child she could be keeping you at a distance to preserve whatever fantasy fog she still has. I'm sorry if those words hurt. Your wife is not onboard with MB so IMO it seems plausible that might be where her head is along with any physical issues that compound the situation.

I agree.
I started a continuation of my part of this disussion over at the Pregnancy/Child forum.

Here is a link, please reply to my sich there.
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...flat&Number=2286017&#Post2286017

I don't think the original poster or any others indended this thread to swing this way, so lets let it get back on track.

The next time she complains when you are doing something, stop doing it, tell her that since she has a better idea, that you'll ride and let her drive.

So when she is complaining about how you are driving, pull into the next parking lot, tell her she is right and she can drive.

If you won't out and out tell her her complaints are bothering you, then tell her that as long as she thinks she has a better idea, she can handle it.

When she complains about the table, point out the hostess and suggest that she may be able to resolve the issue.

I agree, it can be tiring.

I have a pretty high threshold for things bothering me. If my soup is cold, it's usually not a stop the world and get ugly problem. Others have a more "dramatic" approach.

I suspect we are very much alike. Minor inconveniences don't bother us as much as the constant dripping of those who complain about everything.

I had to do this ONCE with my wife. She was complaining about my driving. I pulled over, suggested she drive, and I've never heard another complaint.

The complaint was not about technique, it was about the roads I was taking. So if she wants me to drive, she can SUGGEST a route, but not say after we've taken one, "You should have..."

Bzzt, not helpful and that doesn't make deposits in the LB$

This is just more blame the victim. The victim wants sex with his wife. She refuses, he has no other outlet. It must be his fault 90% of the time if he's not having the sex he wants to have.

That's what this thread means.

Think about it, 90% of the time if a man is not getting the sex he desires, it's something he is doing wrong.

That's what is being said here.

Complete CRAP!

I kinda see that in this thread also.

I don't think anyone has said that. Questions have been raised or potential problems pointed out but I don't see blaming the victim. Every spouse needs to stand back and take a look at their M with as little bias as possible or your doomed to be on spin cycle forever. mud's W very well be the kind of person that pisses and moans about anything and everything...the bottomless pit as stated earlier but mud's own words show a lot of that he is doing as well. Not sure what's wrong with that.

I will stop by.

This may be the wrong place, but this thought keeps striking me everywhere, so I want to share a story.

Several years ago, our faculty spent the summer developing a new school-wide classroom management (behavior) plan. We had a couple of experts to guide us. We developed 4 school wide rules, clear rewards, clear consequences. It was very step by step. As long as we implmented it consistently, we should be fine. We did. And our discipline problems went way way down.

But you know what? There were some kids who didn't respond. We did it right consistently. But they either didn't get it or seemed not to care. So what do we do? It's elementary school ,so we can't just expel them. But if doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity, then just doing our plan over and over wasn't going to work either. So what do we do? Do we tell the teachers they aren't doing it right? Do we tell the kid that we don't want them in our school if they can behave? Or do we gloss over and ignore the fact that some of their behaviors fell out of the parameters of the plan, and just keep chanting our mantra? Even the best behavior plan sometimes needs to be adapted or adjusted for individual children.

So what about SF and all the other issues in marriage? What about those couples who have other issues? Is do it right or separate the only answer? Is there a middle ground?

Thanks

Actually, they have.

SHMI said as much.

Even Dr H says it.


Nine times out of ten it's the victims fault. That would be 90%

The problem is, even with as many couples as Dr H counsels, how representative are they of the problems we see here?

Not very, because most who are presenting issue have a spouse who is unwilling to adopt MB.

Therefore, the folks Dr H see may not accurately reflect what a larger majority sees.

Sure, things like the LB$, ENs and LBs are there. But as I've asked before, how many are really willing to engage in the POJA?

It works, when used. But an unused concept is useless. So we can tell anyone to use the POJA and be happy we gave a correct answer. But how does one convince a reluctant spouse that the POJA is the best way to approach their marriage?

I suspect for most who have complaints here, they cannot even convince their spouse to even LISTEN or READ what the POJA is, let alone adopt it.

I've scrolled around everything in the above quote and I fail to see anything about a victim or a man specifically. Especially Dr. Harley's quote - it speaks of fixing a relationship, not one of the spouses individually who may be a victim.

Are not most of those complaining about the lack of sex men?

Are there folks telling those men that if they fix how they approach the relationship those problems will go away?

Isn't the other complaint also out there. Women complain about not wanting to have sex, and the solution is to address how their husband is approaching her.

OMG, he's such a pig, he doesn't _______ with you and he wants sex every day. OMG, you need to set him straight...

Sure, we see some other answers, but most I've seen fall into that format.