Hello,
I wanted to say first and foremost, thank you for taking the time to read my post. I have ben an avid watcher of this forum for over a year now. I decided today to finally register and put my story out there. It seems as though stories can always have similiarities but none ever the same.
Today marks the 1st birthday of his child with the OW.

To start this off correctly, we are not married. The intention is to eventually get married. I believe I'm ready and he claims he can not financially afford to take care of me right now. Mind you we play house now. Left pocket, right pocket, we pretty much act like we are except for the accountability part of it. Not a big deal for the moment.
We started dating about 4 years ago and unbeknown to me he was already in a LTR with someone else. Needless to say they hardly ever spent time with one another. I heard her name around here and there and was told she was a friend. Fast forward to March of 08 when I found out she is pregnant. OW and I spoke on the phone and she claimed they had broken up in February 08 and just found out. I was completely devasted to hear she was pregant! It added more salt to the wound because I too was pregnant prior (Feb 07) and him and I decided to abort the child. A decision that I regret but we both thought was best at the moment. For about 2 weeks after finding out she was pregnant, I had not spoken to him besides the irate replies i would send in response to his text messages to me to get me to talk with him. His first words to me after finding out that I knew about the pregnancy was "but were broken up" as if it mattered. At some point, we started to speak again where of course the profession of love starts and the Im sorry but I want to be you convos start as well. We had an arranged cruise to Alaska to take that June with his family. i still continued to go thinking it would be a good way for us to reconnect and bond. I was disappointed at one point in our cruise because he secretly used someone elses phone to call the OW to say dont worry Im out of town and not to worry that he wont ignore her calls. Apparently she must of thought that becuause he wasnt reponding to anything on a 7 day cruise. Anyway baby comes in Nov 08 and all I had asked was to keep me in the loop of the communication they had and to not spend the night at her place. I respectfully sat on the sidelines as he went to dr visits which I thought to be understandable. His position is this: Avoid court at all costs. I've already put the question out there: How far are you willing to go with this? At the expense of our relationship? He has the bank account in the OW's name which I've asked him to change to the childs name. I've already stressed to him the fact of documenting everything but he feels it wont get to that. he thinks he is just safe with the bank account that is not in the childs name. Im in a position where I feel he told me anything to get me back and has not honored his promises to me of stating the comms he has with the OW. He does not tell me all the comm they have because it makes him feel less than a man and that he is reporting his every move. he will tell me about comm if I happen to be in front of him and he happens to get a message from here. But I would think just based on conversation that him and I have that he and the OW never talk because he hardly mentions it unless it directly something that we are doing. He doesnt realize how much this is affecting me. He admits that he is not doing everything he promises and just leaves it at that with just no corrective action. I'm dealing with an OW who does not want me anywhere near their child. A woman who recently told him I knew you were at her house with the baby so the baby cant any longer have sleepovers at your house. That has been lifted now. I just dont know how to cope. I feel like an outsider who doesnt know their place in this situation. I've told him I need to feel as though we are dealithing with this together. not just him handlng it. Unfortunately the trust is not there. There is another particular issue that just seems to get under my skin which is the times she calls him. She seems to always call between 11pm and midnight YYY?? I have asked she not call so late and that y cant it wait till the next morning. But since him and I do not live with one another to him its really no big deal at the time she calls. I've accused of him of not moving forward in our own relation because of fear of the ramifications it might have with the OW. We wont move in till we're married.
Today is the childs birthday an dobviously I'm not invited. he will be going to the child bday party tomorrow. The part that upsets me is that i dont get told until today that he is going to the party. because apparently he didnt know the details prior. Only in passing conversation through his family is how i knew there would be a party in the first and he doesnt tell me till the day before is upsetting to me. I'm becoming resentful of my decision to have stayed in this relationship because of alot of the information that I hear about the baby is him telling it to his family in phone conversation in my presence.
How can I continue to live like this? I understand we have trust issues and I'm the only can make a decision to leave or stay but boy is it easier said than done. I just dont seem to make a decision and instead I use sleep as a way to wake up to a hopefuly new and better day than the day before.

I don't even know where to start, except to say that, if I were you, I wouldn't consider marrying this man, ever. It's difficult enough to deal with lies and betrayal when you are already in a committed situation, but at least there is a good reason to stay and attempt to work things out - family, children, etc. You have none of those things to consider when deciding whether or not to stay in this relationship. It's never ideal to be in a relationship that isn't based on mutual respect, trust, and honesty. Why would anyone choose to enter into a marriage already knowing that those things do not exist in the relationship?

It seems as though your boyfriend was already in a relationship when he started dating you. Wouldn't that officially make you the OW? I'm pretty sure that's how the mother of your boyfriend's baby would see you. It's no wonder she isn't welcoming you into her child's life.

Do the decent thing and walk away and let your boyfriend and the baby's mother figure out how they want to deal with this child of theirs. He has no ties to you whatsoever. He hasn't made any official promises or vows (i.e. marriage) to you, so there's really nothing binding you to this relationship. Chalk this one up to experience and don't make the same mistakes with your next relationship.

Thank you writer1. The truth always seems to hurt so darn much.
I sit here with tears rolling down my face trying to formulate a reply back. You've reponded exactly how I would of expected anyone on this forum to reply.
i guess you're right in the sense of me being considerd the OW by her as well. It truly is so darn hard tojust walk away!!
You go through such an array of emotions. I think about about all these years wasted. Its such a battle within me where I treat my relationshio as though they are marriages and simply take the good with the bad and then other side of hte spectrum is why the hell do this to myself? Looking through these posts, I saw one person respond back saying how can I make demands on a man who I do not live with or married to. he is considered a free agent and has no committment to you. I saw that statement and I cried cuz because of how true it was. I feel as though this OW did this to spite me because she has 4 OC as well and added a 5th with my BF's child. One of their major problems is their relationship was the fact that she was unsure whether or not she would bear children for him. So the relationship is now on the line and accidently get pregnant and has a 5th child out of wedlock? and I am not to think it was delibrate on her part? So now since its his first child he has the guiltiness of not being there for firsts and conflicted on what to do not do. I apologize for the ramblings..as I appreciate the individual feedback. I feel good to finally having posted my story on here. At this point, I'm so conflivted about walking away even though it may be the best thing to do.

tellittome, welcome to MB. Consider this betrayal a gift and walk away. I know you don't won't to hear this but writer is right...this man is not marriage material. You are so focused on this other woman and baby you are not looking clearly at the man. He has lied to you since the very beginning. He never told you he was in an R. He never told you he was still sleeping with her. He lied to two women and got both of you pregnant. Then he talks you into aborting your child! Sweetie, please do yourself the biggest favor of your life and walk away FAST!

I know faithful.
This is just a glimpse on how I torment myself with this circumstance. I'm hanging on to a thin thread of hope that he has realized the harm he has caused. Does he not deserve a chance to be redeemed? Has he had too many chances? Should this just be a lessons learned for both of us? So conflicted! I've tried going to a therapist and anti-d's to no avail. I just want to run away from it all. But yet I stay. I want to do so much that I just stay stagnant and make myself miserable.
Thanks for the ear!

This must be a pretty low day for me. Since the beginning of 08 this has been a nightmare that I cant wake up from. For the most part, I've had the attitude of OK I love this man, we'll make it work and I will disconnect from thinking about the OW.(yea right) theres too many triggers, no boundaries, no REAL commitment! On a bad day, I go into my world of what the hell are you doing and you deserve better than this crap and leave! Obviously just an emotional roller coaster that I cant seem to get off from. Im coming to the conclusion that I cant get over what has happened unless something significant happens with us. And is that justification? How does that make things better? US moving forward should just be a natural process, not to prove a point or give me sort of security. This is just ridiculous... I can question everything till my face turns blue. I'm my own worst enemy.

Tellittome,

You stated you would feel like you wasted all of this time with this man. My immediate thought was that you did not waste it. You had a very very painful but educational experience and if you learn from it, not only won't you have wasted your time, it will really increase the odds that you will find the right man and you two can have a long and prosperous marriage.

It is up to you. However, there is something else to think about and that is wasting your future on a man that was two timing you from the get go. Wasting your time on a man that cannot afford to marry or have children with you, but gets to support HIS child by OW. Do you want to have your children start with such a huge disadvantage in life?? I doubt it.

Tellittome, you need to sit down, and reflect on the blessing in your life and clearly there have been more than a few, one of which is that you are not tied to this man, you do not have children with this man and you have been shown that you must select your men with great care.

LEARN FROM THIS and you do much better in the future.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

PS: You need to get this through your head big time. Love is NOT a feeling. Lust is. Fear is. Dependency can be. But love is not. Love is an action and a continued set of actions that performed by one person toward another. I would say that contrary to your statement, there is no love in this relationship, just feelings. You need a man capable of both performing acts of love and receiving acts of love in a manner that makes your life better. Your man is NOT making your life better. 09 is almost over.

Have you read "Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders"?

You say that you don't want to give up and feel like all this history with him is wasted.

Is this man really worth another 2 minutes of your time, let alone another 4 years?

Let's take a look at his actions. He has a life-time bond with this woman. He talked you into aborting his life-time bond with you.

As you inventory his "commitment" to the relationship with you, and his commitment to the relationship with her, all it is is talk, and not all of it sweet. And the balance definitely swings away from you.

Do you really think so little of yourself, to not raise the bar? He can't even step across a limbo stick at it's lowest, the bar is set so low, and he still won't put forth the effort.

I would move, change cell #s, and cut off all contact. It's going to be painful, but you're more attached to the "idea" of him, than him, or you think yourself so undeserving of commitment that you allow him into your life. That's like taking poison with every contact and every thought you have with him.

We're here for you as you learn to respect yourself and love yourself enough to protect yourself from harmful relationships. Marriagebuilders can help you, even though this relationship is broken beyond repair, you can learn enough about yourself, that your next relationship will require a "buyer" and not a freeloader. You are so worth it!

" OW did this to spite me because she has 4 OC as well and added a 5th with my BF's child"

This woman is a baby factory. Pops out kids as bread out of a toaster. These kids are her income. OW needs more money, pops out another OC for another CS payment.

As for you, need an IC to get you to realize that your WBF is not good dad material let alone husband material.

Dump his burro.

You're not married to him so I wouldn't walk..... I'd run. You're asking for a world of hurt to stay.

i have to follow suit here. i say dump this loser and move on.

you have been given a blessing and you just need to see it. he has shown you that he is dishonest and disrespectful to and towards you for 4 years.

he has shown you who he is.

this leopard will not change his spots.

now read on this site and others like it about relationships and how to build one. get some IC on why you would be attracted to this type of liar.

Well bday party day has passed and he did his best to keep me informed of when he got there and left. His reporting to me comes when he feels like doing it.
We never spoke about how I felt about his going to the party. I could of brought it up but the moment I start talking about my feelings, there is a waterfall of tears coming down my face.

Some of the prior posts talk of IC? Sorry i cant figure out what this acronym means.

Its easy to say dump him and I truly respect all the opinions I've received but I must really not realized what a blessing this is to not have merged finances, children and families with him. I cant seem to walk away. This is the man that when I look at him, makes me smiles, thats gives me those hugs that make me feel like we can overpower anything. How can i escape that? I get soo angry at myself for this. Those little warm\positive moments seem to keep me going till the next trigger or heartache.

IC = Individual Counseling

""""""""""""This is the man that when I look at him, makes me smiles, thats gives me those hugs that make me feel like we can overpower anything. How can i escape that?""""""""""""

this is where the IC will come in. they will help you discover what it is in you that makes you feel you need someone like this in your life

i think you need to look deep inside yourself and decide if being treated emotionaly like dirt is worth a charming smile or tender hug

personally i think that the smiles and hugs from someone that truly loves and cares about you are still available

please believe me that i am not offering the "dump him" advice lightly. as with most everyone here we have walked in your shoes one way or another. we mostly believe that saving a marriage takes a high priority but there are always some instances that it is just not practical for the betrayed's emotional well being

in your case i see you are not married but plan on it. i can't see starting a marriage with someone who is lying to you and has no respect for you or your feelings.

why would you commit to a lifetime of having this 3rd part in your life/family. because of a cute smile.

that be found in any number of men who have a true heart and would live you to the ends of the earth

Yes we can still make it!! To all that have written to this young lady about the terrible man she should run to the hills from, I am that man! Its so easy to counsel a person when there is only one side of the story being told. Its so easy to condemn a man, ESPECIALLY a man (see tiger woods) the minute a woman says she was cheated on and lied too. I am not going to go through the WHOLE story (tit4tat) but lets just say that when we started out 4yrs ago, I was the man on the side of HER fiance. I was told about the fiance and how they would never get married but we still went out on "dates" prior to her relationship ending. So thats how it started...so the deception didnt start from just me. However, that doesnt mean it has to continue to be bad. I dont think anyone has the PERFECT relationship from start to finish. And I believe people change and grow and evolve. To continue this juicy little story (as she calls it), tellittome forgot to mention the following

[list]
[*]she had men spending nights at her house with out telling me
[*]lived in her fiances house for 3 yrs after they "broke up"
[*]the time she spent helping out her married male friends against my wishes and not telling me
[*]the lying about places she went and who she was with
[*]the secret lunches i find out about from the other guy
[*]the need NOT to share answers when questioned about times she spends with her male friends
[*]and especially the FACT that she TOLD me she was not having our baby because we were not married

i could go on and on and on....but i think thats enough to shed some light on the 2 SIDES of our relationship. those things were not done because of the things that I did. those were based on who tellittome is as a person.

HOWEVER, I lie to you people not when I say I really fell head over heels for this woman when I first laid eyes on her. I do love her even as she questions my love and how I show it. Yes yes i have already been run up and down both sides of my head about what an [censored] I was to her and now how she is forever scarred by my actions. And I have offered relationship counseling that we attended once. But counseling will not help if there is only ONE person being evaluated and not BOTH. All that she has shared here on this post, only SOME of it has been shared with me. As much as it hurts to talk about I believe it needs to be talked about, but to me! As much as it may help to type it out and get it off your chest it would make better sense to do it in couseling or with me. Not on some message board where everyone sympathizes with the "victim" and doesnt have the whole story.
If I was anyone reading your post about the birthday I would say the same things too! You failed to share how you called the OW and told her all of our personal intimate business. You feel after everything you told the OW about us and what we did that she would WANT you at her childs birthday party? That would be an interesting scene. Our relationship, right now, is about us, not about the baby, the OW, AND us. Just US for now. There will be a time and place for blending those other parts. And lets stop referring to the OW as that because it may indicate that there is still an intimate relationship there when there is NONE. Lets say the baby's mother.
People change. All that crap about people dont change is BS. They change for the things they want. I want us to work. The things we do, the way we progress, the way WE have bonded. I take all the things you do and through them in my BIG OL' BUCKET. The one that allows for forgiveness and a chance for us to stay together.

We have both made mistakes, but as you put it, mine are way bigger than yours. I see beyond all what has happened already and I have hope for what can be. Just as you ask for concessions, I have asked for some also and you have not lived up to those. This is a 2 way street. If you were to listen to all these, sorry, some of these, self righteous hypocrites there would never be a relationship that is worth anything because people made mistakes. And I dont think that is the case! My parents have been married for 45 years. Had they given up after mistakes were made some of my siblings would have never been born. You could never look at them today and no there was so much heartache early on. I love you baby. We can still make it. Would love some comments...

Accused: Wow! I cannot believe you left me a vm this morning preparing me for what I am reading now. You said dont be mad, I didnt do it to be mean to you. You just wanted to share the other side of this story.

As I read the post, I was infuriated that "your list" as plain as it was contained no validity which I will get to in a minute.

You're right Accused, I didnt share ever detail of our relationship with the board. That would simply be more embarrassment for me and they would have been 5 times as harsher on you. My post would of then been a full webpage in itself.

You claim to give your version of a WHOLE story is just crap! Here are some things the messagae board does not know and were not covered in your WHOLE story:
*I have a 16yr old son outside of this relationship that lives with me who I've had to explain to him how you have a baby now.
* I have not told my immediate family (mom, sis, etc) of the OC because of judgement, comments and embarrassment. They live in another state which it makes it easier for them not to know.

To address your first paragraph:
*yes, I did break up with my fiance in March 05. It was a long dist relationship that did work out. I dont think I need to give details because to me its not relevant just as most of your stuff in your list.
*yes, I did go on "date" if that what you want to call it. (Hmmm, I interpreted it as a lunch date with a co-worker)
*Yes, I did tell you I had stayed with him even though I knew we would not get married. (by my choice)
*Yes, I continued to live in the house after we had broken up. The man lived in another state for christ sakes and all I had to do was maintain the house with no rent payment. It was limited to no contact. Had Accused mentioned this would be a problem in us moving forward, things would of probably been different.Apparently that was supposed to be a lesson I was supposed to just learn on my own.
*Yes, in summer of 07 I had groups of friends hanging out at my house and spending the night.
*Yes, I have married male friends who I've hung out with their wives and them. Against your wishes??? Not once was I told not hang out with anyone!!
*Secret Lunches?? Cmon These are co-workers that I go out occasionally to lunch. Yes, I didnt tell you everytime. You're reaching in order to make your list bigger. I do believe your talking about one specific lunch which I've explained countless of times.
*Not sharing answers? No, you just didnt like my answers and or didnt believe them. It's better than you simply just telling me that your not going to discuss it when i ask you questions.
*Yes, I did say I would not have our child because we were not married. Did you say you wanted to keep it? I knew you didnt want it.

That's your list to some degree explained. And the interesting part is that all that took place in 07!
Let's see how my list compares to yours:
Dec 06-Spent 2 days with baby mother in a resort.
Feb 07-Sent 2 of his other girlfriends roses for valentines day. one mentioned that she is always in his heart and the other to be his valentine and I get the supermarket flowers.
March07- Coordinates and decorates baby mothers office for her birthday
April 07- He goes away for the weekend with his ex to a condo on the beach while I take care of his dogs and he pretended to go and see family in other state.
May 07- He attended baby mothers oldest daughter graduation and lied to me about it
June07- He went to amsterdam with friends and met some more girls that he stayed in contact with.
Aug 07- He sends flowers to a different girlfriend for her birthday (same one he sent the valentines day wish of you always in my heart)
Dec 07- gives baby mother 100.00 amex card for xmas and me nothing because we agreed we were financially strapped.
Feb 08 -Baby mother gets prego and they supposedly break up.
April-08 he tells baby mother I still love you.
June 08- He starts a new secret relationship with a 20 yr old.
Aug08- Bought a seperate phone just to communicate with new gf. Explained that because I was snooping around is why he did this. Not once in his post has he mentioned my snooping is his phone or anything but yet that has been one of our biggest problems in our relation.
Nov 08- new baby comes
Dec 08- He tells his ex girlfriend (the one from the beachhouse)that he regets their breakup and they will see each other soon
Feb or March 09- He wants to surprise baby mother with a trip so that her family can see the baby
April or May 09- He goes to Dominican republic with buddies to celebrate their 40th birthday and doesnt tell me till the day before.This is exhaustive and hurtful. Let me just fast forward

Present Day: He still communicates with all these women and according to him its just my problem. These are women that he has seen in the past year to explain to them his transgressions and or newly formed ways. Most recently is the phone calls with his ex this past week. Accrding to him, he did nothing wrong. Talking about what if scenarios in their lives and him questioning her personal life for over an hour on the phone but yet this is my problem and he is completely respectful to our relationship! Right!

These are not the actions of a man who fell in love with me the moment he laid eyes on me!!

I continued counseling one extra time alone which I told the accused about. This was not free couseling, at 60.00 a pop is difficult on a weekly basis.

Im sorry I cant continue to address everything in your post. I've spent over an hour trying to formulate this reply back. I believe Accused wrote the post as a defense and not to describe a WHOLE story.

Something to think about: All the pictures I have taken of you and your daughter in the past year. Can you count how many are of us? None!

Whether you admit it or not, your riding the sidelines in trying to juggle to different lives until you decide its the "time and place" for it.

In the past week, I've received some news that I may not be able to conceive anymore and wont know for sure unless I try and have more children. Needless to say it has me resentful and angry towards him because I feel as though we had a chance and now that may be gone. But yet he had a baby with the OW and I feel as though he did not fight for us. He just let her decide the outcome because he didnt want to look like the bad guy. Now I plague myself with a million questions and questions my decisions. According to him, I'm just acting stupid.

Accused - people change, but when they do they don't TALK about it...they DO it.

And Tiger Woods is an entitled a-hole...you want sympathy? DON'T compare yourself to him. He's not worth looking up to.

Tellit - You wrote this:

>According to him, I'm just acting stupid

Why in the world would you stay with someone who says or insinuated this?

Even *I* with the h*ll I've walked through was NEVER called this by my husband. He'd sooner eat his own stinky workboots than do so.

He layed it all out there for you...what do you REALLY think about it?

Cos I know what I think...and if you married into this knowing all of the above, well at least you can say your eyes were opened BEFORE you leapt...which is a luxury many of us can't claim.

Tellit: My advice now? Run to the hills. Run faster.

My advice remains the same...he is not marriage material.

Not a big deal?

If you were my daughter, I'd come to your place and pack your crap and drag your butt out of there. Kickin' & screamin' if need be.

Since I'm NOT your momma (you sorely need one) may I suggest you read a book.



THE TEN STUPID THINGS WOMEN DO TO MESS UP THEIR LIVES

You can buy it at any bookstore, on line, or get it from a library.

1. STUPID ATTACHMENTS:
You typically look to the context of a man to find and define yourself.

2. STUPID COURTSHIP:
Desperate to have a man,you become a beggar, not a chooser, in the dating ritual.

3. STUPID DEVOTION:
You find yourself driven to love and suffer and succor (or do you spell that "sucker"?) in vain.

4. STUPID PASSION:
You have sex too soon, too romantically, and set yourself up to be burned.

5. STUPID COHABITATION:
So stop lying to yourself! You're not living with him because you love him. You're living with him because you hope he'll want you.

6. STUPID EXPECTATIONS:
Using marriage as a quick fix for low or no self esteem.

7. STUPID CONCEPTION:
Misguidedly, you use biology as a jump start for love, personal growth, and commitment.

8 STUPID SUBJUGATION:
You and your children are held hostage to your own obsessive need for security and attacvhment.

9. STUPID HELPLESSNESS:
Too scared and insecure to deal with your rage, you turn it into wimpishness.

10. STUPID FORGIVING:
"I know he's adulterous, addicted, controlling, insensitive, and violent, but other than that ......
You don't know when to break off a no-win relationship, or how not to get involved in the first place.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You are NOT ready to be married. Your "chooser" is not functional.

Why choose a man who "plays house" and fathers a child with someone else, and treats you poorly?

The way he is NOW is a snapshot of your FUTURE with him.
Is THIS the life you choose?