I've been thinking about starting a new thread for a while now & think now is the perfect time. The old thread was focused on everything that is well in the past.

I'd much rather focus on my new life and my future!

So,,,,,,,,,,,to bridge the gap between threads - the subject at hand is my relationship with R.

Let me see if I can catch up a bit from the previous posts & provide a bit more detail for you all.

The FIRST thing I did in response to R's reaction to the FB status was apologize. I told him what my thinking was & that I was certainly very sorry if it caused him pain. I told him I'd never thought of anyone looking at it the way he did & I was sorry.

I've tried to let him know that this is a work in progress. I am working to frame out for him the concept of the emotional needs. He has the information on MB Basic Concepts, but I don't know how much he's really read.


He hasn't called & we haven't talked on the phone since Thursday. I did send my ususal text messages of "sweet dreams", etc. morning & night. He's sent several text messages about the FB situation. He seems to keep dwelling there. He went back & read ALL of my posts & is upset that I haven't posted specifically about him/us in detail.

So, we traded some text about it last night. I did push back on some things when I felt it necessary.

I acknowledged his feelings, told him that while I didn't originally look at it the way he did, that I could understand his feelings. From my perspective, FB is not the important part of my life,,,,,,,,,,,my friends & family ARE the most precious to me. I've brought him into both those areas of my life & asked him to be a part of it permanently - to ME, that is most telling about how I feel.

I also pointed out that I took him to my class reunion & he met my friends there. He has also met my BEST friends, and has met my entire family with just a couple of exceptions.

On the other hand, he has introduced me to 1 of his friends and ZERO of his family.

There IS more underneath this all, as Luna points out. I HAVE asked & am trying very hard to help him uncover what is really going on here.

I can tell you he has never been in a relationship that was 100% faithful. He has openly admitted that he has been on both sides of the equation. He is most certainly ashamed of his past actions and it most certainly has a great deal of bearing on what we are going through right now.

He does not understand HOW to work together & work through difficult times - although I believe he would like to learn how to do this.

Some of this feels like insecurity on his part, some is lack of understanding how to make a R work, some is due to past relationships, some seems to be a 'test' of sorts,,,,,,,,

and then at other times it feels like a way for him to justify walking away.

His past has always been - - throw up your hands & walk away. Is he trying to made a change in that? I 'think' so, but as I've heard this more than a couple of times before, I am getting weary.

I gotta get back to work, but didn't want ya'll continuing to talk about me without chiming in a little bit!

Feel free to discuss!

Bugsy!

New thread! Cool!

Your whole post turns, it seems to me, on this:


Its always easier to start over. Repairing what you got is a PITA. And introspection? And repairing thyself? Bugs has been doing that. R? Well? We will see.

Its not unusual that you haven't met much of his family. Most single guys I know only have thier children and mother to introduce. Beyond that? Not much. Some folks do, and have a large circle. But unless you have reason to believe that he is in a large circle of friends and family, and he has excluded you, then, this is wait and see thing.

The distance factor makes this difficult for both of you. I believe that it is something that can be worked out. If he is looking to "end it" and the FB thing is going to be the wedge, then you know. Not right away, but if this is his bone, then he is going to chew on it, because of other things in play.

You sound really terriffic.

LG

Bugs,

Love the idea of a new thread. You are proving that there is certainly life after D, and you are doing better at it than I would (or will) do.

When I see you struggling with relationship problems I start to wonder if it is all worth it. I mean, to go through all that stuff again???? It makes me tired to think about it. You are handling it well though. I'm just a little bothered that R just wants to throw in the towel and end it when there is a little work to be done. I don't want you to end up with another Drac. (Sorry, shouldn't mention you-know-who on your new thread).

Anyway, your personal recovery has been nothing short of spectacular, and I (and many others here) look to you as a role model. Thank you for sharing with us over the last two years. You are a gem.....

How are you doing, bugs?

"You Can't Fix Stupid" - My Mom


LOVE this quote...wise mother u have

Good afternoon, all!



Yes, there is life after D - and you, Ms Chai, will do splendidly. It takes time. It took me quite a while,,,a little at a time,,to believe in this new life AND then to really, truly LIVE my life.

Letting go was hard. I still have my moments, but it is more like "Gee, I can't believe I fought so hard for something that I can see now was not the life I was meant to lead - - and thank GOD for that!!"

I'm doing ok. It is quite upsetting & disappointing what is happening right now in my relationship with R. I just keep trying to hold fast to the thought that if it is going to end, then I'd rather have it happen NOW than later. I've tried to keep a positive outlook & remain hopeful that things will work out between us - - but as of right now, it's not looking good.

I've managed to keep from becoming an emotional wreck (most of the time). I've stated openly & honestly what I want, what I need, what I am willing to do, what my hopes & desires are. The ball is in his court right now. It is up to him to determine if he wants to get on board or not. I think he DOES want to, but he has several things he needs to work thru.

I've put myself into a 'neutral' status for now. I'm not walking away, but neither am I actively trying to 'fix' things in this situation. I'm willing to give it time. For now.

WOW - - that sounds so 'healthy', doesn't it? If only it were as EASY as it sounds in writing! Honestly, there were days this week that I just didn't want to get out of bed in the morning. But I did. And I will. It's just not EASY.

But, as I tell my kids, if it were EASY all of the time, we would not appreciate anything in life as much as we DO and SHOULD!

I do really hate the fact that we are in the holiday season. I'm sure you all can appreciate that feeling. And, it is his birthday on the 17th. I had started making plans for a weekend celebration, but have stopped that effort.

Instead, I'm trying to focus on home, work, kids, friends, and family. I painted my living room last weekend and will finish the second coat this weekend. Then I can put the house back together and get the Christmas decorations put up! That usually entails the Christmas music playing and a nice bottle of wine! The kids will be gone, so it will be a party for one. I'll wait until they are home to decorate the tree itself,,and we'll do the 'family' party that night!

Thanks for checking on me.

Hiya Bugsy!

So sorry to hear about R's reluctance to get on board. I know it's so much more difficult than what is on the typed surface, but I completely understand your stance. If R is going to fold so easily, is he really the man for you? maybe this isn't 'so easily', as we don't have the FULL story cuz we don't live your daily life. Perhaps things are much more complicated. I dunno, just seems like making mountains out of molehills.

Since the infidelity roller coaster, I tend to make mountains out of anthills , but I have learned to appreciate what I have so much more than before. You sound like you are handling this well, even though it hurts and can feel defeating at times.

Enjoy the holiday with your kids. You are okay, Bugsy. We have all been around here long enough to know that things have a way of working out over time and with a smidge of patience and perseverence.

Even being 'in love' doesn't stop this niggling little thought. Trust me, I fret over another great loss like the last and I shudder. I suppose my answer is that you have to find the right person for it TO BE worth it. They must be worthy of your commitment.

If you use MB principles from the get go, incorporating them into your life, and you find a person who matches that philosophy and practices that philosophy, I believe you can succeed in having a lifelong relationship, not without it's ups and downs. I'm not so idealistic that I think all will be rosy. I just believe it's possible.

I agree SL, but I wonder if someone who hasn't been what we have been through, and who hasn't learned the lessons that we have learned from MB, well, can they possibly understand the importance of it? I know that before I came here, I would not have given it so much weight.

Being a BS has totally changed the way I look at everything. I now look at M as a thin veil of fragile glass mesh. It can break and crumble anytime. And the debris can spread over a large area. And you can keep finding pieces of glass in places you never thought it could go. And little bits can get in your eyes. And....well you get my drift.

In all of our cases, it was as simple as a member of the opposite sex coming in contact with our WS's in some way, shape, or form. I wonder would I have to live in fear of a new spouse working too closely with someone, sitting next to the wrong person on a bus or plane, or whatever. This experience is going to effect how I look at everything from here on out.

OK, I'm probably rambling and getting totally off topic so I'll stop. But I do agree that it is possible with the "right" partner. Just don't know how to find them.

Maybe MB should start a dating service for divorced, betrayed singles. We understand.

Goodness, I could FEEL what you mean with this statment, and I agree.



Oy! Yup, you hit this one dead on. I don't know what the solution is to this if you are going to get into a new relationship. I trust what I see these days. Trust what is revealed to me. Words only mean so much.

I come here today with less than stellar reports from Bugs World. Seems I have a knack for big things happening at this time of year, and so far, the majority of them are not of the good variety.

Drac left me the first week of December 2006. As we all know, it was ultimately for the best, but certainly not at the time that it happened.

After knowing him for 4-5 years, R and I became more than friends the 8th of December 2008.

Over this past year, it has become quite serious. To the point of talking of moves and marriage. He even took me to look at rings. It was going to be a big scary step, but I really thought it was time to look and leap.

The last month has been a mixed bag of declarations of forever love from R. In fact, I was just cleaning out my 'junk' email folder. I haven't done that since the first of October, and there I find an email from R, dated November 5 that I had not seen before today.

It says, "I love you with all of my heart! I have been in love with you for a long time. I have messed up many relationships in my past, but I don't intend to mess this one up!
That's why I'm so scared sometimes (and probably why I acted the way I did this past weekend,,,you really have no idea how much I love you!) I don't have a good track record, and you are the best thing that's ever happened to me! I hope you believe that!"

Now what woman doesn't melt when reading that kind of message? It sure worked on me!! It was the kind of thing he'd said frequently since October

Then November 17th was when he decided he 'wasn't sure', etc. Suddenly *I* hadn't done enough to prove I wanted this forever. I wasn't excited enough and I never talked in detail about our future. That is true to a degree, but not 100%. I was often hesitant, partly due to my past, partly due to my being scared that he wasn't sure, and third, until it was more 'offical' I was scared that it would all just disappear.

I had contacted my attorney and asked about the possibilities of the custody issues with my wanting to move out of state and that it was not work related. I got a response from her on Nov. 18th. The day after R decided that he needed time to think. He canceled coming here for Thanksgiving and said he just needed to get thru that holiday.

I gave him space, but tried to do some small Plan A type things from time to time. His lack of response spoke volumes, but I tried to remain hopeful. I was expecting a call for us to talk, for him to tell me his thoughts/feelings.

We had a call, that I initiated. It ended with my telling him to give me a call when he decided if he was in or he was out. Since then, it's been sporatic text messages.

Weeks ago, I ordered something to be delivered to his work for his birthday next week. They delivered it yesterday. He sent a text saying thanks. I responded and attempted to engage in some Plan A conversation.

He went back to stating how he was SURE that *I* was not serious about us or willing to move. We went back and forth on several topics. His last message was "I was willing to work things out,,,,,were you?"

My response was "I WAS and I AM willing. That is what I've been trying to say and for you to understand"

No reply or call for 4 hours. I suggested that he'd clamed up (an accusation of his towards me earlier when I could not reply quickly).

His next message said "You need to move on,,,I have! I met someone else,,,,her name is H".



What in the bloody H*LL is that about? What??

Stunned does not begin to describe how I feel.

This CAN'T be my life! It just can't!

Sorry for the pity party, but I feel like I'm going thru the same torment all over again.

My mind knows all of this for what it is - - but my heart keeps saying it can not be so,,,,he is only saying this because he's scared & rather than work thru the issues (esp those of his past) he's putting this out there to try to make me hate him and go away, thus saving himself by hurting me. This way he doesn't have to risk being hurt himself, which is the real issue.

Then, my mind comes back around and I am ok for a while. Then my heart kicks back up and the vicious cycle continues.

I dunno bugsmom, it sure sounds like blameshifting and wayward speak. Look at the words you chose to describe YOUR side of the interactions... "plan A". It seems to me with only knowing your side of this situation that R gave you a gift. He showed you with no doubt that he is not marriage material.

(((((bugsmom)))))

Unless him sayin he is seeing someone else is only to make you upset enough to let him go....but either way that is just cruel, esp knowing what you have been through....sorry bugs, he is acting like an [censored]....Hugs sweetie.

Bugs, I don't know how to react to this. My feeling before was that he was trying to end it for some reason, but I see mixed messages there. I am just not sure how to interpret this.

Maybe you are right in that he is trying to avoid getting hurt by telling you that there is someone else when there isn't, but d@mn, this is sooooo immature.

I think what I would do is call him, state my feelings, state what you will do to make the relationship work etc. then ask him to tell you the truth - either he is lying or not. Tell him to be honest. If he has found someone else, you will do a Plan B and never bother him again. You need the complete and honest truth.

I know that I will never give anyone the opportunity to lie to me again like my WH did.

I tend to agree with FF though - that maybe he is not marriage material. You can't go through this every week.

Call me if you need to talk. I will be home later tonight, say after 9:00pm.

Love you Bugsy....stay strong.

I don't even know what to say about this.........

I can't imagine what you are going through. Again.

You deserve so much better and although I'm sure you don't want to hear it right now, it's best to know now.



Fox

Bugsy, I am so sorry for your pain. His actions have been so wrong in so many ways. I could understand him wanting you to state that you are 'in a relationship' if he were committed, and that is what I thought he was, but THIS behavior doesn't speak of someone who is committed to what would be a tremendous change for you if you moved to be with him.

Please take care of you. Be patient and don't make any hasty decisions. Write your thoughts down, get clear.

When he started waffling a few months ago I thought instantly....he is getting involved with someone else.

Look back at all of his concerns and blaming and turn it around to him. I think he was speaking out loud and accusing you of all the thoughts and feelings he was going through...

I am so sorry. I think when he started thinking about you guys and forever, he was scared and looked for relief. If this is his MO it would mean a horrible rollercoaster ride for you...without a good outcome.

Thanks everyone for the love & support. It means so much to me to have folks that care & understand so much!

I did do a great deal of writing yesterday and last night. Some expressions of anger and a whole lot of expression of PAIN.

I told a girlfriend of mine about the email I found in the Junk Mail folder. To cheer me up, she suggested I send it back to him with what looked like an email/computer generated message saying

"Bugsmom has deleted your email WITHOUT reading,,,Apparently a good thing because you are full of shyte! Have a great day,,,Sent via my keyboard"

I laughed for the first time. Then I said the message should be

"Your message to Bugsmom - Sent November 5, 2009 1:42 PM sent directly to Recipients Junk Mail Folder.
Message deleted Today at 5:10 PM
Email servers now capable of screening flat out lies"

I don't know what posessed me, but I DID in fact send that with a copy of his original email.

You could have knocked me over with a feather when Ladybugs picked up my phone last night and said, "Hey, it's R calling".

He asked if I could talk. I told him I was doing homework with Ladybugs but would be done in about 20 minutes. He said, "this won't take long", so I said OK.

He first told me he was sorry. For everything. I said OK. He went on to say that we've got to stop texting, emailing, and talking. I told him that he should do what he feels he has to do. If that is the way he wants it, then fine.

I told him I just could not sit idly by when I found that email from just a month ago and based on today, it was an outright lie. He said it wasn't, but things change. I asked WHY? He said, "It just did".

I told him, "I just don't understand how you can go from wanting to marry me and then right around to saying things changed"

He said, "I met someone else. I didn't plan it, it just happened" (Yes, oh yes, the Wayward Script, I know!)

I replied, "I am not saying you planned anything. So if I'd uprooted myself and moved there, it could have ended so quickly with you saying you met someone else?"

He would not reply. I asked him why he never answers my questions,,,, He loves to ask questions, but when I ask I get nothing in return.

He tried to talk, but he was obviously very choked up.

Finally he said 'I have to go. Good bye."

Shortly after, one of my BFFs called to check on me. She knows R and has gone thru a LD relationship herself, so she really understands well what is going on.

We talked. I cried. ALOT. And as you all know, I'm just not a crier. But, it was a good thing. It helped to clear my head.

So, in talking to my BFF, we agreed. The truth of the matter is that he does love me & that is in a strange twisted way, what this is really about.

He knows me. He knows I am a Yes or No kind of girl. Either I am in 100% or I am out. I love him and am not going to just walk away without fighting for us. I think that's become pretty obvious.

He has no idea how to handle that. It's never happened to him before. I also believe that it is true that he's not been in love this way before. The closest he was to it in his past was when he was the one who ended up hurt. Knowing that this is even stronger, he is deathly afraid of getting hurt again, knowing it would be even worse than before.

He can not bring himself to tell me he does not love me.

He knows what stong ties I have with my friends and family here. He understands the difficulty with Ladybugs and moving. He believes that Ladybugs and/or me would come to resent him if we were to move there. His ex will not work with him on visitation with his son were he to move here.

He sees no possibility of this ever working. He wanst more and can no longer handle doing this relationship long distance. He knows that the only way that I will walk away is if he has moved on.

Is it right? No. Yet, I can see that this makes sense to him.

There's not one of us here that hasn't thought to ourselves that the person in our lives isn't using warped thinking, and yet we remained willing to do whatever we could to work it out.

I KNOW that I can not force him to want to work it out. I can not change his thinking or his feelings. Those are his and are valid for him. It doesn't stop me from wanting it to be different.

{{{{{Bugs}}}}}

We love ya, Bugs. We are behind you in whatever you decide to do.

Amazing how are coping skills have been honed, isn't it?

Fox