My H is 2 months into withdrawal and I trust he hasn't seen the OW mostly because he's still distraught and depressed but says he's able to control his urges to contact. He says his feelings for her haven't changed a bit, and he still loves me but isn't in love with me. Anyway, he gets annoyed with this site because he thinks it's mostly people in my position looking for answers and we just can't understand because we haven't experienced an affair. He gets very frustrated with the concept of fantasy love vs. mature love because he feels his love for the OW is very real, passionate, and beyond any type of fantasy after a 4 month affair, although they did grow up together 20 years ago and dated some then. He is afraid to lose this type of love because he fears he will never again experience it. I am saying don't push your feelings for me too fast. But he says he can't stay with me feeling this way and the OW lives locally and is available. YIKES!! Any insight? Should I avoid this type of talk? He does get angry at it. Do you know where he might be coming from as you reflect on the past? What can I expect over the next 4-8 months? He really seems to be whipped!! But he says he's still staying here because it's the "right" thing to do ......at least for now. I'm sooooooooo scared!! Thanks, Jenn<P>------------------<BR>

I fit the bill ... I'm a betrayer.<P>You need him to spend some time searching this site for my posts, Airhearts posts, Holly, Hummingbird, RJR#2, New Woman, Tamis .... who am I missing?<P>We're all in some stage of withdrawal, some further than others, some just beginning ... he needs to read that he's not alone, that he's not crazy ... and most of that that HE'S IN A FANTASY.<P>He especially needs to hook up with Airheart ... you know man to man ....<P>

Maya forgot me but then again, I do not post too much. Is Airheart the only male betrayer since Freedom is gone? I have been wondering about that for some time now.

i am also a male betrayer my history<BR>was posted on 10/15 and i assure you <BR>that your h is living in fantasy - you<BR>are lucky to understand that i couldn't<BR>for a long time and my w who has filed <BR>for divorce never understood the concept<BR>of fantasy -- i continually tried to <BR>describe being in a fog, in the clouds,<BR>actually in outer space... anyway i highly reccomment the book Infidelity a <BR>Survival Guide by Don David Lustreman <BR>i'm not sure if it's in the stores i got<BR>it from an 800 # -- search the web if you can't find it post me and i will get<BR>you the # -- you and your h should both<BR>read it -- it was for me the first time<BR>i began to understand the nature of this<BR>hideous thing infidelity and through <BR>counseling and this site i now understand so much more, unfortunately,<BR>my w didn't get here and just when i was<BR>ready to take her here and reveal all she served me with papers -- your h needs to be educated -- tell him how much you love him and try to get him to<BR>work on this site and read the book i<BR>reccommended -- many of the feelings he<BR>has are described in the book -- and he<BR>will begin to understand the fantasy of <BR>it all -- i know because i was a textbook case of not knowing -- when you<BR>do learn and understand it is a very<BR>big awakening...much peace and love trying hard<BR>

Hi Jennifer,<P>Here's the deal -- what your husband feels for the OW is definitely not, repeat, <B>NOT</B> a fantasy. The love, I mean. But, if he thinks his life will be any different with her than with how it ended up with you, then that is where he falls into the fantasy trap.<P>Right now, yes, he cannot forget her and he loves her dearly. That's exactly how I felt. And it lasted for longer than 2 months. Hey, I broke it off in June! The pain and anguish lasted at least three months. I still feel love for her. My withdrawal is much much better though. I'm not depressed that she's not in my life any more. I've grown to accept that. In time, your husband will too.<P>What he must decide is that he can get that love feelings for you too. He doesn't have to look elsewhere. Ask him this -- does he remember having those feelings for you before, when you first met, or those first few years of marriage? If so, then it a natch that he would be able to get that back again. It's just a matter of him <B>deciding</B> that is what he wants to do.<P>I'd like to say more, but I'm in a hurry to get somewhere! I'll check back on this thread tomorrow.<P>take care,<BR>--andy

Hi Jennifer,<P>I do know where your husband is coming from and he is right about the fact that until you have "fallen in love" in an affair, you never really understand it. However, talking about that isn't going to make you feel any better here. <P>However, the important thing is to save your marriage. Would he be giving up a lot by leaving you? I am thinking of things like mutual friends, children, relatives, a history, a house, money, possessions, his reputation, his morals and ideals, etc. There are a lot of thing to think about here and I hate for him to ruin his life and yours. Also, Andy is right, you can restore love and create what he is finding in the affair. That is the emotional needs stuff that Dr. Harley talks about. At least he is talking and being open about it.

Hey Guys--thanks for your replies. My H even read this last night so keep the advice coming!! He tells me that many men would desire me and goes into all the reasons but that that isn't enough for him right now. I told him I just feel like a hollow shell with only air blowing through it. I even talk to some of his (and my) best friends to have them remind me that I have desirable qualities just to keep me going. Is that desperation or what??#@*$* I do have the strength to continue but it's just so hard to understand this whole affair thing and the POWER it seems to have over people! It sure wasn't this hard for him to fall in love 16 years ago, but then no one else was in the picture back then. He can recall some of those times when he felt very close to me, although I seem to be able to remember his looks at me, silly grin, tone in his voice, how I just "knew" he'd do anything in the world for me, etc.....much easier than he remembers it. He is trying, it has to be a conscious effort right now, but I'll take what I can get!! I think he's just not ready to let go of that special type of love he shared with the OW. I wish I could be given that special type of treatment, but sometimes I feel like I'm too available, he knows ALL of my negatives, there's not near the level of excitement because it's like the old shoe you slip into in your sleep. Is there any truth to all of this? I am hopeful and optimistic for the future because we could have a wonderful marriage IF he can become devoted to it and IF I can persist in my efforts.<P><BR>Jenn<BR><P>------------------<BR>

Hi Jenn (and Jenn's husband if he's reading),<P>Don't forget that the OW is like an addiction. A very <B>very</B> strong one. It takes every ounce of will-power to break free. Believe me, I know. I caved in on numerous occasions and contacted the OW after I broke it off. I still have occasional pulls to contact her. It truly is a one-day-at-a-time process.<P>Jenn, keep showing your husband you love him, and try to avoid the love-busting behaviors if at all possible (I know I gave you this advice before, but it's worth repeating). If you haven't already, maybe you should buy the book "His Needs Her Needs." It talks about the importance of meeting each others emotional needs.<P>To Jenn's husband - I realize you don't feel anything for your wife right now. I am actually at that place myself. But I am committed to making that connection again. It takes alot of <B>time</B>. If you are truly committed to doing the right thing and making your marriage work, then you must be patient. It might take a year or two years even. You owe it to yourself and Jenn to give it all you have. You have to make the decision in your mind that the OW is completely out of your life. That won't come overnight, and it's not a decision that you are willing to make right now. But keep up with the no-contact and you will eventually see those feelings subside and you will be able to let go. It's very depressing to hear that, I know, but it's what you must do if your marriage is to survive.<P>--andy

Your husband is heading in the right direction by ending contact with the OW. I know that the love he felt for the OW was/is real, but it doesn't mean that by starting a life with her that he will be any better off.<P>It will be a difficult road to discovering his love for you again...but probably not impossible. First, he has to get over the withdrawal...which could take some time. For me it was about 3-4 months. Once he is through with that he can honestly work on regaining his love for you again. I'm sure he put some effort into discovering love feelings for the OW (no love-busting, etc.). If he puts the same effort into your marriage the feelings could possibly come back.

Jenn: I am going to go along with the consensus. Your spouse is going through that stage in which the relationship is fairly new and exciting. The love that he is feeling for her is probably real to him and those feelings of euphoria are hard to give up. However, they do fade as in any relationship. Once the couple becomes comfortable in their marital routine(by that I mean work, children, bills, other externals), there is a tendency to forget the importance of maintaining the relationship with each other such as love notes, a surprise kiss, a kind word of support, flirting, COMMUNICATION and other things that were done during the courtship. I know of this lack of maintaining the relationship very well because my spouse and I let it happen in our marriage and as of today are still practicing that same behavior. I tell you as I tell your spouse, the newness will wear off and he will eventually fall back into that mode of comfort where he is with you now. My suggestion to him is "don't be so quick to destroy what he has now with you" The old saying "you don't miss the water until it's gone" If I read you correctly, there is sixteen years of love between you both. It does not go away at the drop of hat or an OP. He is blinded right now by love and passion, but this too will pass. I am a betrayer and had many affairs, but what my heart truly wanted was the love, passion, attention, affection from my spouse which he (who became comfortable in his marital environment) refuse to give. From what I hear, you seem to be giving him the attention. I will warn you though, it does take time for him to get over the feelings he has for her and it will take time for you to feel safe with him also. I wish you and your spouse much luck. My prayers are with you.

Jen----it will get better. As others have just stated, our husbands/wifes have a lot more invested in our relationships than they do with OW/OM, the betrayers that have not completely lost their heads will think about this very important investment, emotional and financial. Its difficult to just ignore everything shared together for so many years...the births of the children, deaths, <BR>children's ball games, school plays, familiar and stable surroundings, coming home to a nice dinner, getting a hug and kiss when walking into the door, etc....family life is beautiful to come home to....how many are realistically willing to give it up ? And...I keep thinking...if our spouse leaves us and has this illusion that its "greener"<BR>on the other side of the fence...most will become disappointed when they find out the OP<BR>has faults too, just different faults and annoyances...My H recently told me that there are good and bad things about her and good and bad things about me...we are different. <BR>I also worry about my H and the fact that I <BR>am very realistic to think that its not over until he/she decide its over. I don't think<BR>he will give her up yet...but I am trying to focus on the positive...