My husband will NEVER come completely clean. His brother is a IC, (yes, the one he sends my private emails to and they share with others) << This brother must be a real C pro, I tell you.>>

The way I found out, is that I sent an angry email to my H (because I can not have a conversation with him, when things don't go his way he walks out, claiming "he's done!" at least in email I can make a point-)

So I sent him an email, he went to forward it to his bro, he hit the "reply" button instead of the "forward" button.

His note to this email, that he thought he was sending to his bro was; "Dear Bozo: MORE FUN! Love, Oopsie!"

I mean, the side note hurt worse than the fact that he sent my email around! Does he really think this is "fun?"

He feels that his "dr.bro" is giving him all the advice he needs. I can tell when he talks to his brother by the way he treats me afterwards (entitlement, "oh poor abused me" attitude.)

Both his brothers (both cheaters, both divorced) tell him to move on. since I seem to be emtionally trapped, I wish he would pull the plug,-- most of the time, anyway.

I am very unhappy. I said to him last night "Do you see this changing? how?" and he said he was tired and went to sleep. Like every other time he does not like to answer questions.

we are stuck in a huge house, that we would have to borrow money to sell. We both have good jobs, but can not affor/function as two families. I am in getting my Ed.S, my salary will go up- but I feel trapped.

I have two teenagers at home, I care for him and miss the man he used to be (or the person I thought he was for 20 years) limbo does not even begin to describe.

BC, you need to find a way to Plan B. Tell him he needs to find another place to live because you will no longer settle for crumbs in your marriage.

He could stay at dr. bro's

Thinking of you today, BC.

bc, you should do what I did. Set my sights for when my D19 graduated high school as the day I moved out. That gave me time to plan ahead, to make decisions with that moving out in mind, and it gave me hope. Hope that, in a few years, I COULD start living the life I wanted. Sure, I'd have a couple crappy years to go, but I had a plan, and that got me through it.

Howwever, I should say that, once I finally told my H that was my plan, he did a 180 and has been at least half the man I always wanted him to be. But it was my lack of fear, my willingness to embrace leaving him and letting him know, that made all the difference.

He says he IS in a 180. He just does not like the MB way.

My IC thinks he is a tragic figure, and that HE is not ready for MB-- but that does not mean that I am not.

He will not move out. I wish he would. He set himself up a "basement bedroom" and it really cranks me off when he goes there. He knows this.
He uses this space (thanks OLD MC who thought it was a GREAT idea) IMO, when he wants to avoid conversations.

I see improvement from the total a$$ he used to be. But he has a long, long way to go.

He is constantly wanting "commitments" from me, I think he has the stupid idea that I can promise not to get upset with him or lose my temper or call him names for SIX months.
--yeah, I know this makes no sense to me either.

He thinks he has the "way". In the last 3 weeks we have not avoided each other for only three days. that is how hopeless it is. I deserve better.

Are not the holidays great???

I have been off 2 weeks, it has not been good. Every time he talks to me, he puts a list of HIS demands in MY face. Basically saying (for example) for six months if I call him a name, I will do do a list of stunts.


He does the same thing with the kids, Place rules in their faces,( not all bad) and when they break them, hoo boy, do his penalties start. Groundings, him childishly demanded apologies and the like. Needless to say, both kids hate him- I am sick of being a referee for him and DD17-- I quit! I feel like I have single handedly raised them for the last 4 years.

I think he is going with "the best defence is a good offence."

I ask him if HE is willing to put up "commmitments" -he says he "already has",(I don't know what these commitments are).
I ask if he is willing to change his behavior-- stop acting so wierd and walking around cheesed-off demanding apologies from me (us) 24/7...., same answer..."He has already has."

He does not let me finish a sentance. When I speak, he interupts every second sentance with; "I want commitments", "are you going to meet my commitments?". "what about those commitments?". He really thinks this is helping.

(My problem with his commimtents is although they sound nice -- don't belittle/disrespect me, do not ever call me names, he makes EVERYTHING a disrespect- no matter WHAT- I get called up to apologise 3x a weekend- some I deserve, most I believe are in his head.)
He has always been passive agressive...I have written and talked many times on this board about his antagonising behaviors. I have asked him to stop, he says "HE ALREADY HAS". then antagonises/annoys the stuff out of you, when you react "AHA! now you are the rude one and need to apologise..."

grrrr. I am not good at handeling this.

He thinks he "knows the holy way" to have a marriage. I think, maybe he still loves me -- and the kids-- but then I think, if he did, WHY would he do this? 25+ years down the toilet!
Last straw:
For example, YESTERDAY he borrowed out DD17 brand new computer to buy/look fly fishing equipment. He visited a pornography site in the middle of his surfing ! REALLY! no really. Hello, even I know about a history button.

I had to ask my DD17 if she was sure it was not something she stumbled on, (to be fair- and not fly off handle) and she erased it- I really don't know how to get cookies off-- AND I am going to stop protecting him from his dumb mistakes. THis has been the hardest thing for me to do- I am loyal and I will protect people (who sometimes I realise don't deserve it) until the bitter end. It is my nature.

Yesterday, he asked me to go out, (if of course I was silling to make commitments to him.) I was very very angry over the porno thing, was trying not to get upset, make judgements ....he ran off, like he always does and he did not come home last night. I also got bad new from my Dr. re lab results, and my H reply "Oh that's too bad. Now, what about those commitments!"

Final straw- I asked him to pack his bags. HOW can you plan B someone who A. Is not cheating and B. thinks HE knows everything, is claiming he already has made changes. blah blah. I get blamed for everything.

I know, very childish. On both our parts. It is impossible for us to even have a conversation.

When I refuse to meet his demands, he walks out.
I hope he packs his bags. I am at my whits end dealing with this.

Thanks to all who have listened to my complaining.

I don't want to wear out my friends/family anymore and it is so good to have a place to put this out.

.....and I don't care if H or SB read this.

It would take a "Hail Mary Pass" thrown by Jeasus himself to fix this.

Is there such a thing as religious fog?

Most definitely. It's called self-righteousness.

Yes, you can Plan B someone for whatever reason you want. It's called leaving someone. iiwy, I would go to the bank ASAP and make sure he can't hurt you financially by taking all the money - because he seems like exactly the type who will have to 'teach you a lesson' for not doing as he says. Then visit a lawyer.

We keep two accounts, seperate credit cards.

He takes care of certain bills, me others.

I have to cover all household expenses-- he NEVER asks if I need help. But I make good money.

He really can't do any worse to me than he already has.
I am protected.
Yes, he really is the type to try to "teach me a lesson"-- that has been pointed out by two IC's. I know he is in the
throes of a MLC from HE((- I just got sick of waiting for him to grow up and consider something other than himself.

House is quiet, my kids are not surprised. DD17 is still put out over her computer porn, she is such a prude! She does not want to talk to him today at all. but DD13 seems OK. She is the one that will get hurt the most. She is loyal and sweet. I must guard myself from giving her too many details, I don't want to hurt her to make myself feel better.

They know what is up. They feel the brunt of his passive agressive antagonising too. They don't blame me for the descisions I am making. But we all wish he would STOP doing what my girls reffer to as "wierd behaviors".

Ouch this hurst, but to be expected.
Like I said, loyal as a bluetick.
Kept my mouth shut and walked around with my heart on my sleave for years. Got me nada.
This does not come natural to me. Seriously I need to GAL

Have you read Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men? I think it would help you get some perspective. It would also be good for your girls to read it with you.

Also, please go to www.daughters.com. It is an invaluable resource for people with daughters, and especially those going through problems. Just awesome stuff. They used to have a printed newsletter, and D19 and I would sit down and read it together; it brought up subjects I couldn't have brought up with her on my own, and gave us an opportuntity to talk about her views and mine.

Please say a prayer for R.Piscopink. He is in his last hours. He is the father of my DD17's boyfriend.
I just feel so sad for the family, and 'specially Bobbie.

Went to the church to the chappel to say a Roseary, I went into my Vatican stash, and guess what? The only Roseary left is PINK. So, I guess it was ment for this family.

What a sad day. I am jealous of people who are bored right now.

Prayers going out.

Said a prayer, too.



I've said that alot in the last 2 1/2 years.

I liked my boring, every-day-is-the-same life pre-affair. It's returning, but it's hard to wonder what shoe might drop next since my whole world fell out from under me.

I am sorry that you are going through so much. I have heard you say that you wished that he would move out and such. It also seems like you guys might be fighting an awful lot, which is not a healthy environment for your children.
I just want to say that when my WW hit me with divorce papers, I was forced out of my house, and the papers came with a list of about 25 restraining orders, all of which were not in my favor, including child support and the like. If your spouse wants to go and cheat and not try to work anything out with you, and you are going to be hit with papers at some point when someone grows the stones enough to do it, in my case, I would rather have been the one who filed first. The one who files first in my mind is the one who is going to control the divorce and the relationship. It will run a person about 5k on a retainer and then they get things rolling from there. If you go down this road, you better be ready to go all the way. You could always use his half of his 401k money to pay for the overage that you would have to borrow to sell the house. I am not making any suggestion to tell you to divorce, but..

If you do not view this as an option, I would definitely say that the arguing has to stop. It is just never going to get better if you are still throwing down all the time. Not to mention it's not good for your kids.

There has to be a way to cool the tongues for a while. Maybe you both need some time apart, once again. You can alwys put a divorce on hold if you see some changes...

Good luck! It would seem plan B is hard to do while someone is living with you, and neither of you are going to leave...