After reading this thread, there is a theme that is really bothering me about Gack's FWW. While it is VERY admirable that Gack has taken the OC as his own, his WW's lack of desire for intimacy is a huge red flag to me that she really had no intention of salvaging the marriage. What this means for Gack is in the eyes of the court, he is the father of the child. Thus, if they divorce, he'll most likely be paying child support if he does not get primary residency.

His FWW knows she did something really, really, dumb. But, she was smart enough to not to run from the marriage and thus have Gack listed as the father and not Yardboy. If they divorce, she knows Gack is on the hook for financially supporting the child.

This may be the cynic in me (having your wife leave you for her 50 year old unemployed 2nd cousin who has no teeth does this to you) but it wouldn't surprise me at all if Gack and WW end up divorcing, Lawnmower Boy is all of a sudden back in the picture. He knows Gack's WW would have a steady income courtesy of Gack.

Gack,

PSUB is scary. I would check how long you have to dispute paternity in your state.

This subject is what every single one of my threads turns into. So I am really sad to see it go this way.
(And it is the reason I almost never post a thread about me)

Barring some crazy judge who is on a mission to punish men...

In the event we where to divorce, as long as I protested paternity as a part of that divorce, I would not be held liable for C.S., but I would also loose all parental rights.

I have spoken to two, well respected lawyers about this.

This state has some new and rather progressive paternaty laws when it comes to men, marriage and there liabilities for an O.C.

So it would suck in that I might never see the baby again, but I also would not be paying C.S. to wife and whoever else for an O.C.


OK, flame away!


As far as S.F. goes...
This weekend was preaty good for us as far as affection goes. We where extreamly busy (Baby sick, family commitments, decorating, etc) but I get the feeling had we had the time and energy, SF may have actually accured naturally.

Nothing to flame.

Gack: For what it's worth, I don't think that's what your W is trying to do at all. I think some people have just been burned pretty badly and they fear that the same thing may happen to others.

Lack of intimacy does not automatically mean that your W doesn't want to salvage the M and that she's just biding her time, waiting for a chance to D you and collect her CS so she can run off with yard boy. It could mean that, but since things seem to be going well in your relationship other than the SF, it probably doesn't. There are many possible explanations for what is going on, and the only real way to find out is to sit down and have that honest talk with your W.

To put it out there, my H and I are having the same sort of problems and I honestly don't know why. I have no problems showing affection to him, but the SF has been an issue for awhile now. He doesn't push the issue much, but I'm sure it must bother him. I really want things to improve in this area of our relationship too, but it's difficult, because I don't really know why the desire just doesn't seem to be there anymore.

Glad you had a better weekend. Hope the baby is feeling better soon. My LO was sick this weekend too.

writer1, you say that the only way to find out is to sit down and have an honest talk, but if your H tried to do this with you, what would you say?

(I think you have been really helpful on these boards. Absolutely no criticism intended.)

We did talk a little about it. Well, not SF specifically, but about her looks.

You may have been on to something when you stated she may not feel attractive. She told me Saturday night during a conversation about clothes, that she is fat, and that she is pale, and flabby, and never has time to dress nicely, or do her hair, etc, etc, etc.

I told her I disagreed with her.
She is not fat, she weighs less than she did before the baby. However this is mostly due to a loss of muscle mass (No time/energy to work out) but she is nowhere near fat.

She is not flabby, she has a "Normal" amount of padding, she just doesn't have as much muscle as she had before. All this can easily be fixed later.

She is pale, but so. It's winter, we did not spend as much time out in the sun this year as most, and she doesn't have time to go lay in a tanning bed like she use to.

As far as hair and clothes, looks like I may need to find a sitter for one evening this coming weekend.

Now I did not tell her what I wrote above, I just told her I though she looked great. (I listened and empathized, I did not try to fix) and I think she felt a little better afterwards.

Then who does?

Me too.
Pink eye + Common cold (Rhino Virus) = Grumpy baby.

SC: My H and I have discussed the issue quite a bit. I don't mind talking about the problem at all. In fact, often, I'm the one who brings it up. My H is very laid-back, type B, go-with-the-flow, so I'm usually the one who has to bring up most of the issues in our M.

Gack: I don't know who would know if I don't. I have a few theories about some of the things that may be getting in the way, but they're kind of embarrassing and personal. My H and I have discussed the issues, but discussing things and actually finding a solution are two different things. I think I know what some of the problems may be, but I don't know what to do about them.

Grumpy, common-cold inflicted baby here too.

There comes a time in every marriage where there is a valid reason for a lack of SF. In a loving relationship, the affection continues to be expressed despite the lack of SF.

If expressions of affection and care are lacking ... it's a bad sign.

Gack1..

You have my respect for the way you have "handled" things in your life and the way you seek help from others here.

If there is one thing I can tell you about women - or people, in general..it is that they hate to be "pushed".

Do I think you are being pushy or expecting too much? No way.. but by being pushed, I simply mean that she most likely knows your feelings and is possibly becoming a bit more resentful of this expectation in her mind.

My best guess for you is to work on her self-esteem in a sly fashion. Slip in those "you are my beautiful woman" types of "sillys" then give her a peck on the check and go about your business.. Make her feel attractive without looking like you are working too hard at it.

Is it fair after all you've been through? Nope...but women are creatures of admiration. We admire pretty things and we like to be admired.

Best of luck to you..you are a fine gentleman

Eibrab

i don't know what the answer is but many of the things mentioned here were problems for my w.

she felt self conscious because her body has changed as we have aged

tired from long hours at work

exhausted from the seemingly constant hassles of raising a large family

stressed over our finances

stressed over the om constantly taking her back to court

doesn't feel she has the time to pamper herself

like i said since i sent her the email things have been getting better

also we have found a time (sunday morns) to sleep in and enjoy each other, not always sf, alot of just snuggling up, reading the paper, talking about life, etc

it has gotten her more into the mood

i am guessing she still has many many issues from all you 2 have been thru in the last year. and with that 1st b-day coming it probably has added more weight on those issues

i know it's frustrating as all get out but hang in there and i am sure your w will come around

W1

"To put it out there, my H and I are having the same sort of problems and I honestly don't know why. I have no problems showing affection to him, but the SF has been an issue for awhile now. He doesn't push the issue much, but I'm sure it must bother him. I really want things to improve in this area of our relationship too, but it's difficult, because I don't really know why the desire just doesn't seem to be there anymore."

�DS: 20, 17, 15
DD: 18
OC: 13 mos.
In R, NC since 09/01/09. BH and I are raising my OC together.�

In many a WS mind the A was over when the last time they had SF with the OP.

But when W1 came here on 10/22/2009 she was still looking to justify having contact with her OM.

Problem is a WS can not go through withdrawal until NC starts. Feelings for the OP can not be lost until NC happens. Then the feelings do not disappear the same way as lights are with a flick of the switch for most. Thus the need for withdrawal up to a year.

Remember the WS has to convince themselves that the OP was worthy of having SF with themselves and their BS was not.

Now that the PA is over the WW has to resolve that their BH that was not worthy of SF with them now is. Easier said then done because of the many issues that have to be addressed. From a sense of betraying the OP, they have to admit the OP was not all they thought them to be, the need to feel unworthy and punish themselves, etc�

W1, during you�re PA did you ever have any periods where you cut off BH from SF?

Gack, during your WW PA did your WW cut off SF with her for you?

>the feeling had we had the time and energy, SF may have actually accured naturally

As a mama to some Littles that are becoming Biggers every day, I can attest that when your Little gets Bigger it is A LOT easier to get your 15 hours in AS WELL AS your beauty rest.

There is hope as far as that bit goes.

Just a minor point: writer came here before October 2009. Her original thread was lost in the meltdown. That being said, I think it was only a couple of months before.

I originally came here in early Sept. I think the last contact I had with OM was around the end of August, beginning of Sept. We had a phone conversation where we basically discussed the fact that NC would probably be the best for everyone involved in our circumstance. Prior to that phone conversation, I was sending OM updates on the baby - pretty much an email every time she had a doctor's appointment telling him how much she weighed and how she was doing. That's what we had agreed to when the baby was born, so that's what I was doing. My H knew about the email updates and approved. I didn't know about MB then. The concept of NC seemed like a natural one, but I didn't think it was entirely possible to do with an OC involved. I see things differently now.

And no, in Oct., I was not still trying to justify having contact with OM. That would have been very early Sept.

TR, to answer your question about SF, my H and I were probably having it about as often during my PA as we did before, which is to say, not all that often. We've had difficulties in this area for a quite sometime now, long before the start of my A.

Yes, she also cut out all physical affection.
So much as a peck on the cheek was too much for her to deal with.

Same thing would happen every time she broke NC.

I figured out long ago this was becouse she felt like she was cheating on OM

Gack,

You are staying with her why?

I would have to say that after my Wifes EA 20 years ago our sex life never recovered to what it was before the EA. After the EA my Wife would very very rarely initiate, and it was only my attraction for my Wife that kept us having sex.

So while your Wife might come back to you, there is a possibility it might never come back to the same qualitative level you once had.

NJ

"I were probably having it about as often during my PA as we did before, which is to say, not all that often. "

Why?

Mismatched sex drives, physical, mental?

Did you want SF with BH during the PA?

Did you try to avoid SF with BH during the PA?

Was the SF with the BH during the affair only because BH initiated it?

Were you able to separate the OM and the affair when you had SF with BH?

Why do you think there are SF problems now?

1. Why? Lots of reasons, I suppose. Mismatched sex drive was probably a big contributing factor, but SF was probably a little more frequent then than it is now.

2. Did I want SF with BH during PA? Sometimes, yes. I was very conflicted. As my PA progressed, I had decided that I wanted a D. At that point, H and I didn't have SF for 2 months because I did feel as though I was cheating on OM, since we were talking about getting married after our D's. Messed up, I know, but that's where my head was at the time.

3. Did I try to avoid SF with BH during PA. Other than that 2 months, no.

4. Was the SF with BH during the A because BH initiated it? Probably, for the most part.

5. Was I able to separate the OM and the A when I had SF with BH? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I felt very guilty. It felt wrong to have SF with the OM because I was M. It felt wrong to have SF with my H because of my A. The entire thing was very wrong and caused me a great deal of conflict.

6. Why are there SF problems now? Lots of reasons. Mismatched sex drives, baby with crazy sleep habits, physical problems (mine) from giving birth to 5 babies, physical problems (H) that have been ongoing for sometime, H that gets up at 4:30 in the morning to go to work and rarely gets more than 5 hours of sleep a night.

Time will slowly lessen the impact of the affair.

What can you do to get BH more sleep?

Why 5 hours, doe this mean he goes to bed late, why not go off earlier?

If he starts early does he get done early enogh for a nap before diner, after diner?

Are health issues being addressed?