After being around here for too long, it sure seems to me that adultery comes in two basic models:

1) The "soulmate" model. Example: Gov. Sanford of SC, the pathetic, fog-bound, juvenile sap who dumped his wife and sons for some woman in Argentina that he is sure he is in love with, or the loony astronaut who dumped her husband and then tried to kill her OP's new girlfriend. These types "fall in love" with just one other person and may well abandon marriages and families for their "soulmate".

2) The serial cheater/philanderer model. Examples: Tiger Woods, Bill Clinton. These types have no intention of dumping their wives and families unless forced to, because they really want both a marriage *and* dating. They like the benefits of a having a family but make a hobby and a lifestyle out of cheating.

My unscientific research says that more women are Type 1 and more men are Type 2, but of course there is plenty of overlap.

MB methods seem to be geared toward Type 1. Have we seen much success here with Type 2? It didn't help at all with my own XWH, who despised POJA because it interfered with his hobby of cheating and who fired me because I refused to back down about his many girlfriends.

Seems like a *very* short Plan A followed by a stone-cold, pitch-dark Plan B is the only thing that might help with Type 2 - and even then, has anyone here had success in reforming a Type 2 serial cheater with MB methods?
Mulan

I think the Clinton/Tiger types do not change. They are just wired differently and have never really loved anyone but themselves. SO, the MB stuff may not work.
On the other hand, the deeply love entrenched WWs are said to be very tough to recover with, as well.

Maybe.
SadSoSad (name changed to Dances with Goats) and her husband GreenMile.

They went to a MB weekend. They also moved to the private board.

There is/was a possibility that MB is/was helping GreenMile change. (among other events)

I believe the biggest indicator of how likely recovery is is how open is the withdrawn and/or wayward spouse to the other spouse.

What I believe makes a WW nearly impossible to bring around is not the OM, but the fact that she has typically closed her heart to the BH.

Dr Harley repeatedly mentions the concept of "too late" when dealing with WW's. That's not due to the actions of the OM, but the actions of WW who closes her LB$ permanently to her husband.

Only she can decide if she is going to re-open that account. The BH can do a perfect plan A, never commit an LB and perfectly understand and meet her needs. But if refuses to allow him to do it, it's all for naught.

So the indicator I think is most telling for recovery is how open are the spouses to the MB plan.

It takes more than one to be on board. The reason why it's nearly impossible to win a WW back is few decide to give MB a shot. They have this idea that their husbands cannot meet their needs or that all the hurts they perceived in the past are the only way the future will be.

In other words, they've already DJ'ed their husband to the point where the reality of his current actions are not allowed to cut through the image she maintains of him in her mind.

I might add that it seems few WSs recognize their own contributions toward the poor state of the marriage pre-A. Instead, they blame the BS for everything, when it is clear that they played a major role. WHs and WWs both do this.
The real problem with WSs that do not wish to recover seems to be an unwillingness to do much self examination. Rather, they run from the problems they often largely created in the marriage by looking for romance to solve everything.

How is it that you can be so on target with my particular situation?

Not sure you can put Gov. Sanford in the first group. He admitted to other "inappropriate relationships".

Fred, the more one reads on this stuff, the clearer it becomes that cheaters follow very similar patterns. This applies to the way they manage many areas of their lives, not just their marriages.
If you look into the backgrounds of many, you'll see all types of behaviors demonstrating an inability to accept responsibility in work, finances, school performance, credit, etc.
There is a significantly higher incidence of personality disorders among cheaters.

I believe you are correct, Zelmo. It saddens me to think the wonderful, caring and "common-sense smart" woman I married is one of these so disordered. The more I read and learn, the more this seems to be the case.

And that hurts. Maybe it shouldn't, but it does.

There's also the subcategory nuclear type one.

And a survey would be a little skewed. You'd be missing data for Type 2 success because many BS will only attempt to repair after one affair.

I think the biggest indicator is if the WS is TRULY repentant as well as humbled by the A fallout. Gov. Sanford is a serial cheater...maybe his latest A was the worst but I think he crossed the line many times before Argentina. All three of the men mentioned are away from home a lot and have power/status which makes them inviting to a bunch of leeches (and I don't mean only APs). If the WS's head hasn't deflated and he/she hasn't taken a good look in the mirror, MB will not work.

black_rave - I LOVE your second signature line, do you have tee shirts?

Nope, but I'm tempted to make some.

Wishbone? So, what do the women have?

Not touching that.... must ...resist... urge.... to.. type.... already ..... in trouble ...... on other..... thread. AAAAAHHHH!

The same.

Why does this remind me of the old country song: "I hate every bone in her body except mine?"

I think there is a third. Something like the dead M or exit affair model. They don't really think OP is their soulmate, but aren't hooking up with any and everyone.


I'd guess it has happened, but it has to be rare. MB probably doesn't do anything for the type 2, as you have described it, because they don't want what MB works towards. IMHO, they are less about wanting to be married and dating, but more like they don't really want a true intimate relationship. They want superficial or functional relationships.

Nice. Can I use this?"
Reminds me of the Woody Allen quote: Masturbation- at least it is sex with someone you love."