Its 230am, I just came down stairs as I couldn't lay in bed any longer. I had some really bad mind movies and thoughts.

I keep thinking about her removing her pants and panties and having sex with all of those different guys, lord knows how many times. She slept over night with them at times, so I am thinking of her waking up in the morning with the OM's in bed next to her, naked, after a night of sex. Very vivid, real thoughts. She consciously chose to remove her items of clothes and engage in sex with those guys....

I do not have these thoughts as often as I used to, but they still happen....it really sucks.

I can't tell my wife of my thoughts as it causes a fight or gets her angry. I had thought we were at a point where I could speak of my triggers and such, but it was a false hope. I can't even speak of my triggers with out them upsetting her, let alone asking her questions about the affairs that I have.

It took until today to figure out what the problem was, and it was ME that had to guess what HER problem was. It appears when I have a trigger, and even though I can explain it to her using 'I' statements, and how 'such and such' is causing me to feel uncomfortable, I hope you understand. And also as I've told her all she has to do is give me a hug and say something like, 'I can understand how you feel'...thats it, then its DONE, in 2 minutes. We can continue on, no problem. I don't think its much to ask.

She can't do that, one time I thought she did, but she really didn't feel it. So I figured out that when I have a trigger, and even though I only need a hug from her, then its done, she can't do it and the reason why is she says my trigger feelings ruin her entire day. Even if I have one or two a day, maybe, and 2 minutes is all I need, she can't do it....my triggers ruin her day and upset her.

So I can't talk to her about my triggers, feelings on her A's or pretty much anything relating to the A's...as they upset HER and ruin HER day.

I am glad I have you guys to lean on, I hope you don't mind?

My ex-wife was the same way. She could not talk about the affair or answer any of my questions because of how it made HER feel. She had no empathy at all for what I was going through. It was all about her, even though she really wanted to stay married. Her attitude was like a battery of anti-aircraft guns while I was trying to get recovery off the ground.

You probably don't want to hear it, but ditching that woman was the best move I ever made. There is just no way I could have had an adult relationship with her.

Your taker will kick in after another three or so months and life with you and her is going to get very difficult. She needs to be aware of this condition.

Transparency is the only thing that is going to slow you down. Initially it will hurt, but honesty will help overcome your mistrust. Thank her for 'fessing up the other guys.

Read the articles and find out what a Policy Of Joint Agreement is all about. Learn about boundaries. If she understood these, there would never have been a second incident without permanent consequences.

Heck, carry of reading the articles and post for advice.

I agree. she lacks empathy. She is a serial cheater without remorse or any sign of empathy/kindness. Perhaps you need to start really looking at whether this is the type of personyou want to go through life with. She sounds very broken, possibly with a personality disorder.
I got out of a relationship with such a pesron. It hurts, as you have lost a dream. But, it is for the best.

I know we've sorta touched on this in other threads but I do know she loves me. I think maybe she feels so horrible about the A's that talking about them, to even help me, is something that she is having a difficult time with, (duhh, right?). SHE has not dealt with the A's, except for sweeping them under the carpet.

Now we both are not dealing with the A's in a healthy manner.

She is still in contact with someone. I went through a false recovery (FR) and this is EXACTLY what it looked like.

<There IS the possibility that this is due to a serial cheater, but I am not familiar with that...IME this is a HUGE, CLEAR sign of a FR>.

Does she work outside of the home? Are you snooping?

I'm sorry to say this but I would bet a boatload of money this is what is happening. I know it's not what you want to hear (I didn't either but I should have listened to those here who told me the same thing).

Everytime I have said this to someone in the past, I have (unfortunately),been right.

This level of insight is a wonderful step for you!

I'm w/ Zelmo, this may be DUMP HER TIME! Maybe it will sober her up? IDK Good luck! DUDE

She doesn't work out side of the house, except for taking care of a couple of senior citizens. I am sure she isn't seeing anyone, I am as close to 100% sure as I can be....but I can't be 100% obviously. I snoop a bit, like checking texts via Verizon and nothing but numbers I know. She never gets on PC, so I don't think that is the problem.

I know our marital problems back then were 50/50 but she was really in a bad place. She didn't know how to deal with her pain/anger and she still isn't the best at it. I didn't talk openly like I do now, so if she was trying to tell me of her hurt I wasn't hearing it...her fault is not assuring she was saying it in a manner that I heard.

Regardless, she knows no matter what her emotions were back then it did not justify what she did, she freely admits it. Her problem talking about the A's is it brings up the pain she felt that lead her to the A's, (again, she knows there is no reason good enough for A's)....so she is reliving her pain again, from back then. I do understand that, does it make sense to you guys?

We both are sort of stuck between a rock and a hard place.

'PB', thanks, actually we both know that and just talked about it this morning.

Codtej,

I can't tell my wife of my thoughts as it causes a fight or gets her angry

Did your Wife get this way before you found out the affairs were physical as well as emotional?

NJ

Codtej,

You said The answer is YOU are dealing with this in a healthy manner. That is what the triggers are about, that is what the dreams are about. They are your mind struggling to put these thing into something you can handle.

The first part of this quote makes me wonder why you would want a marriage with her. Here is my thinking and I do think this is something YOU should talk to her about. The A's were an event in your marriage. Her treatment of you then, and her lack of empathy and support NOW, indicate that she is NOT A PERSON you can rely on when the going gets tough.

Affairs are tough, but having cancer, being in an automobile accident that perhaps she caused, those are much tougher. Where will she be then??? Where will she be when life tosses you some other disaster to deal with? It seems to me her method of handling issues, personal issues, is to run. First she ran to the other men, no she is running away from you.

YOu two need to talk not about her A's but how she handles tough things and how she supports or does not support you when YOU are going through tough times. This discussion is long over due.

Her affairs are a symptom of deeper issues. Her inability to support you is a symptom of the same thing. Deal with it from that point of view.

JL

Letting her know the conditions that you are willing to accept (ie; Openness & Honesty about the A's, etc.) in order to continue with the marriage is a great place to start. I find pen and paper to be a great way to say what needs to be said.

With your current conditions of accepting anything she is willing to give, the result will be huge resentments. That's not a good plan! Wouldn't you agree?

Oh waa waa.

She tells you that because you accept it, and she knows it.

Not trying to be rude, but this is a lesson in boundaries. You have none. Hers is that, if you do anything that shines a negative light on her, she fusses and complains and guilts you until you step back. Do you apologize, too?

Try to imagine an entire lifetime of this tactic?

This is what I was going to say. If I were you, I would make a condition of recovery that she start going to regular IC sessions, for at least a year.

'Jersey', 21+ years ago our marriage was much different than it is today, we both were in our own worlds and not communicating, so I can't reply to your question.

'JL', I know she would be there for me when the going gets tough...I know to you guys its hard to believe, but she is different person now than then, as am I. She has been there for me in many different situations. I will say that the discovery of the A's have cast a shadow on many things I've thought were 'gimmies'...and I am pretty sure she has not had any A's since back then, but I am not 100% sure. Before Dday I would've said I was 100% sure she would not have had sex outside of our marriage, (yes even though I had worries she may have had fooled around back then, I pitted hope against hope).

'CP', you're right about my boundaries, no doubt. I am trying to develop boundaries, however it's difficult to learn when you've had none for so long. As a teenager I shut out the whole world and didn't allow anything to penetrate me. After marriage I became co-dependent and have no boundaries.

We talked again last night for a long time. I had to be the one who once again made a 'connection' in our situation. Me bringing up my triggers or hurt from her A's brings up in her the pain that she felt back then. That hurt, over time, led her down the road to her A's, (again, she knows it was wrong). When she tells me of the hurt and pain she felt from years of me not being the husband she wanted it causes pain in me. So I do understand how me talking of the A's brings her back to hurt and pain. I understand its uncomfortable to hear your spouse speak of their hurt and pain, especially when you were the one who contributed to it.

So when I speak of triggers/etc, and my hurt, she has a hard time separating her own pain that caused her to have the A's and to be able to help me at that moment. At least that is what it seems. I did say that I am not trying to trivialize her pain but us having marital problems wasn't justification for her A's. So like it or not my pain from her A's do trump her pain from our marriage problems back then...at least in my mind thats how it is, and I do think she knows this and it sucks to her.

I don't know if that makes sense. We both fully know that whatever pain she felt was not justification to have sex out of our marriage.

I think we are in a bit of an odd situation as they did happen many years ago and our marriage was doing very well until Dday.

I have explained to her that from what I've read and grown to know, and from reading and talking to people that have 'been there, done that', what I am needing from her, and what I am feeling, is normal and not out of the ordinary. She has read on here how the WS is almost always the one who has to do a bit more, the one that has to make more of a sacrifice for their BS. I told her she needs to somehow work within herself and deal with her pain and worry more about my pain and hurt at that moment...she has to make me feel more important than herself, like it or not. Our marital problems were a reason for counseling, therapy, separation, divorce, anything, but NOT SEX OUTSIDE OF OUR MARRIAGE. Those acts she did herself, and she CHOSE, on her own, to do them.

I also said if she ever needs to talk about our marital problems back then, and the pain she felt then, or now, to talk to me. I have told her anytime, 24/7 I am open to talk to her about ANYTHING that is bugging her...if I am at work or anytime. I've told her she is the most important thing in my life, whatever I am doing is secondary to her needs at that time. Sadly I do not really feel that I am the most important thing in hers, for some reason. She insists I am, but I feel she doesn't show it...her actions do not match what she says.

I know I am rambling on, I hope I made some sense. My wife and I are talking and we do understand each others needs and we both are trying to meet them...but there is room for improvement.

Sounds encouraging. Have you two filled out the Love Buster questionnaire yet?

No not yet. I have looked over it. Actually we have the 5 Love languages on CD. I've listened to them, she has not. She has them in her SUV. She's had them for about 3 weeks, no time to listen I suppose. We both did the survey however.

My #1 was physical touch, which we both have always done, then words of affirmation, which I still do not get from her. She said she tries to work on it, but its difficult...hmmm.

Her #1 was quality time, which we have been doing for years now, then physical touch, again, we both do and enjoy.

Just remember that if you haven't eliminated the LBs first, it doesn't matter how many ENs you meet, cos you're still draining the love bucket (as my H calls it) with all the holes you've poked with the LBs.

Yea WE do need to do the LB's and such....we are trying to wing it and combine it with some of the good we got from MC and IC.