Ok he is begging me to give him one more chance and I have given him a list.

How long should I give him to "prove" he is worthy of another chance?

I am not sitting waiting for him to do anything. I am moving forward to do what I feel I need to and file for D. I still have alot of work to not perform so many LB's.

You can't help people who don't want help.

I just can't find many success stories of serial cheaters.

I would not recommend plan A.

I would recommend Plan P.

polite (with no effort to meet his ENs)

What was on your list, trying?

By the way, I think you chose the wrong name. It suggests that if you had been better he would not have had serial affairs, and if you try to be better now you can stop him.

Wrongo.

Does the list include total transparency, for the rest of his life? YOu check his phone records, you install a keylogger, you have a GPS in his car...stuff like that? If it doesn't, you're wasting your time.

Not at all about the name. The name is for me because I know I have areas to be better. I also know that I can't change anyone but myself.

Catperson,
Do you mean that if I was to try again that it would include all the transparency? That was one of my conditions. I also don't know if I want to babysit an adult the rest of my life.

Oops sorry forgot to answer Sugarcanes question.

First and formost NC letter sent, total transparency, all passwords, no seperate email accounts, counseling, learn
MB principles and counseling for SA. I was giving him until 12-22 when my D leaves for the holidays but now I think it may not be enough time.

If I understand Dr. Harley's advice for serial cheating correctly, the key is to stop the situations that cause the cheating. My take on that follows.

* If it happens when he travels, no more traveling, or else you go with him all the time when he travels.
* If it happens in bars, no more bars. He can drink at home or not at all.
* If it happens online, no more home internet access, or all of his access is shared with you with no separate accounts for the rest of your life.

I hope you get the idea. Despite all the precautions you put in place, too, there are some few people who are simply broken and not worth the effort. You get to decide where he lands.

Your goal isn't to babysit him. It's to always have full knowledge of his whereabouts and activities which should be part of a good marriage, anyway. The extraordinary precautions to prevent recidivism are just good sense with a man who's shown he can't be trusted around other women.

Thanks Barnboy. I read what Dr. Harley's take was on it also and we have alot of those boundaries in place. He doesn't go anywhere except work without me. I know where he is at all times.

The problem is the internet and cell phone. Bingo! HE says now he will not have any accounts without me. He won't get on the computer without me. These were his actions not mine. He says he is "trying to prove to me". I say time will tell.

That is exactly what I am struggling with. Is it worth to give it another shot? I don't know yet.

Well he is trying everything to be a better husband except for doing some of the things on my list. I have told myself the ball is in his court and if he doesn't do the things I ask then I have my answer.

I am continuing on with protecting myself and I am looking for apartments and going to the gym. I can't get into an IC until after the holidsays. I am being polite but not meeting his EN.

He says he wants to do whatever it takes to save this marriage but yet he won't do what I ask of him. So I say actions speak louder than words.

Are you saying this out loud, to him?

Does he know you're looking for an apartment?

Yes I have told him this out loud.

I told him I was looking for a place to move to and he said I'm not going to lose you.

@Tryingtobebetter,

A thought.

Dr. Harley describes the process of improving oneself in "Love Busters". Talks about ways to eliminate bad habits and start doing the right things. It often boils down to the same thing: the Four Guidelines for Successful Negotiation.

Guideline 1: Set ground rules to make negotiations pleasant and safe:
Ground Rule 1: Try to be pleasant and cheerful throughout negotiation.
Ground Rule 2: Put safety first. Do not make demands, show disrespect, or become angry when you negotiate, even if your spouse does.
Ground Rule 3: If you reach an impasse where you do not seem to be getting anywhere, or if one of you is starting to make demands, show disrespect, or become angry, stop negotiating and come back to the issue later.

Guideline 2: Identify the problem from both perspectives.

Guideline 3: Brainstorm with abandon.

Guideline 4: Choose the solution that meets the conditions of the Policy of Joint Agreement -- mutual and enthusiastic agreement.


It's not easy to follow Dr. Harley's guidelines. But at least in my relationship with my wife, I can't state something once and expect my spouse to "get it", or even remember it. If she does, it's a blessing: I recognize it, thank her for it, and express my happy surprise at her diligence. But when it comes to things our partners have enormous blind spots about, it takes time, repetition, and approaching the problem from various angles to finally come to an acceptable resolution.

On certain issues which are very important to me, it's meant that I have to come back to it again and again over the course of weeks or months as circumstances change, and try a number of different ways to go at it. Every time, though, if I remember to follow the Guidelines for Successful Negotiation, I don't tend to get Love Busted when I approach it as long as I try to keep the experience positive.

There are certain things that are non-negotiable for me, of course. Extraordinary precautions are among those.

What is your reply to that?

Thanks Barnboy and that is exactly where we are at. We have alot of things that we aren't doing that are MB principles. I have been educating myself since I found this site just a short time ago, but I still have some work to do.

I feel like I am doing all the work but if you asked him he would say that is untrue because he is meeting all my EN when we are together. He calls every 1/2 hr to "check in". I did not ask this but this was his way of trying to prove it to me.

When he says "I'm not going to lose you" I admit I do some LB's and say "your actions speak differently" or "I'm done and I don't think I can do this again". I asked him why should I give him another chance and he said because we love each other and that we neeed each other and that we have a good situation.

I said I want a husband I can trust.

I know that we have done ALOT of things that are not ideal and that is why I am struggling with giving yet another chance. I do love him at times and then others I feel content with the choice of being alone.

I am very confused. I don't know what to do. I know I need a plan and that is what I am trying to come up with but then I second guess myself.

Can you do phone counseling with the Harleys? Probably the best choice for restoring the marriage and getting him on board with what you really need.

I have asked him to come to this site and he said he will do whatever it takes but that is one of the things he still hasn't done.

I asked him to go to MC again and he said he would but isn't "excited" about it because of the last time we went we had a horrible counselor.

I wish I could afford the Harleys because I think we desperately need them. I think I can afford them but that means no moving out to my own apartment. So if I want to save my marriage then I feel I need to stay home, get some "good" conseling and throw everything into my marriage.

That is the million dollar question. Whether I want to do this one more time.

OK, that's progress. He's hitting the wrong targets for you, apparently. Why not show him what the right ones are?


Perhaps let him know that when he says this, it's a selfish demand on his part? "I don't want to lose you" would be an expression about himself; "I'm not going to lose you" is a demand that you stay.


A good situation? When he's off diddling other women while you're taking care of things back home? Sure, that's a GREAT situation... for him. You don't need him. He doesn't need you. Same with my marriage: I don't need my wife. She doesn't need me.

But we WANT to be together. What can he do to make you want to be with him?

-- Meet your emotional needs.
-- Avoid Love Busters.
-- Be Radically Honest.
-- Spend enough time together.

According to Dr. Harley, the program works if you both work at it...


If he meets your Needs, doesn't make major withdrawals from your Love Bank, is Radically Honest with you and spends enough time (minimum 15 hours per week, usually 20 or more) giving you his Undivided Attention, there's a good chance you can trust him. As Ronald Reagan said, "Trust, but verify".


He gave you the Get Out Of Marriage Free card. If you want to use it, that's totally your right. Get some counseling, prepare yourself, and go for it. You are completely, absolutely justified in your decision and nobody has any right to question it.

But if you want to save the marriage, you have the recipe.


Think about the Three States of Marriage. It sounds as if you're vacillating between Withdrawal and Conflict.

Is it worth it to try to repair the marriage he ruined? Up to you... not him.

Again you are right on Barnboy. I even went back and read up on the "the three states of marriage" and I am definitely between Conflict and withdrawl and I know it will take every bone in my body to get back to being a giver.

So when I found out about this site about 2 months ago I was working on Plan A because we were fighting and not getting along real well. I also know that he needs constant affection and admiration and so I was working on all this. He even said "wow I can really see a change with you and I love how you love me".

Well what a joke because that was just a few weeks before I found these new emails.

Now we are back in the hole that I can't stand. At least i did some things right this time and I exposed to everyone I knew. He actually said "I can tell you really want to save your family and your marriage by your actions."

He actually thanked me for exposing it before it went to far. That is what I question. Why am I the one that has to make you be accountable for yourself. Why can't you do it yourself?

How long is enough time to do things that you ask them to do, i.e. NC letter, counseling, come to this site?