This is hard... She's angry and hurt and taking it out on me. I'm trying to respond kindly, and it's draining me. I feel so empty right now I just want to cry... If the next month is going to be like this, I think I'll be insane by the end of it.

I'm making a list and getting numbers so I can hit everyone possible.

That alienation of affection article was awesome =)

Something else interesting I've noticed. Before the "no contact" was put into place, I had to force myself to not talk about the relationship, and she said that it pushed her away.

Now, I am not bringing up the relationship at all (instead, focusing on her ENs), but it's all she wants to talk about.

Is this good/bad/normal? Also, how do I deflect relationship talk, because in Plan A, we're not supposed to really go there outside of counseling. What I'm saying now is "Let's talk about that with the counselor."

I think that's a good approach.

I think it's also good to just listen and reflect.

If she wants to talk about the relationship, what about just listening and demonstrating you understand.

For example, let's say she brings up something she would like to change about the relationship.

Reflect it back. I.E. "If I understand what you are saying, you would like more dates, or more romantic gestures, or less sitting around and watching TV." (Just some examples.)

You might also say/ask things like, "What does that look like to you? Can you tell me a story or paint me a word picture of what that would look like in our marriage."

You can always reflect empathy. "I can see how that is appealing." "Sounds like this really hurt/angered/embarassed you."

If she wants to talk, let her talk. This is a good source of information.

If you actively listen, that will likely make MAJOR deposits in her LB$.

If you argue about what she says, then you will make withdrawals from the LB$.

I wouldn't expect her to want to listen to you yet. So my advice is if she wants to talk listen, really listen, and do everything possible to understand what she is saying.

You don't have to agree with it. You can say things like, "You may be right." Doesn't disagree, doesn't agree, but lets her know she's been heard.

Always thank her for sharing her perspective and let her know you value her perspective.

Update on our NC period - there hasn't been any contact yet, but I saw last night she google searched his name. I'm guessing she's starting down the slippery slope of contacting him again, and this is the first step.

Does that sound like the case here?
Should I confront her now, or wait. If I confront her, how should I handle it?

She'll say that technically there was no contact, and while that is technically true, it sounds like wayward BS to me.

Does she know you're monitoring her?

I wouldn't confront her yet, but I'd monitor her very closely. If she "technically" breaks NC, that's when you confront.

It sounds to me like she's scraping the icing with her fingers. Cake eating to follow...

She doesn't know I'm monitoring her at the moment, and I'm not sure I want to use that bullet just yet.

I'll wait for something more concrete.

OK, I did the exposure thing, copying a very good letter here. Why are most people coming back negatively on me, saying I'm desperate, and should be working on my marriage instead of telling people about my wife's affair? They're saying I will almost certainly get divorced now because I'm an idiot.

You know, I got a bit of that myself. Ignore it. These people are hanging on to the old idea that "secrets" should stay secrets. We know better...

I would disregard them too. You know what you did was the right thing to do. You did what you did out of love and to attempt to recover your marriage and I know it takes a lot of courage.

You are following that narrow path towards a recovered marriage that many people cannot or will not do.

Just say, "Gee, thanks for your support. MY decision was based on years and years of research that says if I don't stop the affair, I CAN'T save the marriage. And if my marriage has to be shared with another man, then I don't want it. I'd be glad to provide you with the data, if you're interested."

There are just so many ignorant people out there, folks that have no idea of the severity of the abuse attendant to an affair and with no clue as to what is the right way to go.

Just remember, Waffleguy: the advice on exposure doesn't come from random forum members. It comes from Dr. Willard Harley, with decades of experience with these things.

If the affair doesn't end, the marriage will, and no amount of "working on the marriage" will save it. Exposure helps to end the affair, even if the wayward spouse refuses to believe it had any effect.

Even months after no-contact, my FWW refuses to believe exposure had the effect I saw it have.

What was the best effect? OM called then-WW on the phone in a screaming rage, seven times in one day, after I told OMW about the affair. It was the most useful and powerful exposure of them all. That rage showed FWW exactly what kind of man OM was -- willing to sacrifice her on the altar of his anger -- and what kind of a "good man who controls his angry outbursts" I was in comparison.

I know people here have called me on this being disrespectful, but of the dozens of people I called to expose the affair to, only three had advice that wasn't total crap. Most people don't know how to save a marriage. If it can be saved, Dr. Harley knows how and has the experience to back it up.

Thanks guys. It's been a hard day for me, and your words help a lot.

Hi Waffle,
Sorry for what you're going through this week. The people who really care about you will support you and help put pressure on the A. Exposure kills the fantasy. For WW and OM, it's all wonderful when it's a secret but when it's all out in the open, it's not so wonderful anymore.

Gg

I'm really hoping this does help kill the fantasy, because she's totally wrapped up in it.

Something that's odd tho. She isn't making any moves to divorce, separate, anything.. She tells me if I make her choose, she'll choose him, but she's not even trying to separate from me.

What's up with that? Is there a part of her that sees that she'd be giving up a lot here and SERIOUSLY "affairing down" with this guy? Or is that just wishful thinking on my part?

Waffleguy, she's in a fog. Deep within her, she knows that what she's doing is wrong, but it feels so good right now that she's fighting back any subconscious voice that's telling her. One of the seven criteria for dependence is "breaking one's own rules" to continue the addiction.

So yes, in a way she's seeing the unreality of her situation. This is why exposure is so critical to the MB plan. If one enables an addict, they never get better, and usually drag down the ones they love with them. The treatment is to break the addiction and then complete abstinence forever after.

I'd say your WW isn't over the edge yet. So it's vital that you continue working as hard as you can to kill the A.

There is a rule here: WS are liars. Also: believe the action, not her words.


Affairing down is also quite usual. Do you wonder why only 3% of affairs actually make it past five years.