Wow, Hold. Sometimes I think we are scarily alike.

Hold, from what you have posted, your wife is adicted to spending. It doesn't make her a bad person, but she seems to have no control, even when you have POJAd an agreement, even when you don't have the money in the budget, even when she had to commit fraud to get the cheques/credit cards. MB won't work in the presence of an adiction.

Have you talked to your son about money? He is old enough, and at the stage where he should know what finance is available for his college choices. It is also pre-emptive, if Mrs. hold is suggesting something that's just not possible, then he will have the facts at his disposal to make a decision. I am not US based, but does he have an interest in courses where he could start off at a comunity college, and then transfer to a state college, or something like that? If he needs to get scholarships or work through college, then does he need to know that now?? I have a friend who lectures, and the kids who do well are the ones who understand how much this is costing their parents, and how much an education is worth. The ones who get everything handed to them end up with a harder path through life. By absolutely no means do I mean run down Mrs. Hold. Just discuss your sons options, what's available to spend, and what isn't. Sit him down and go through the family budget. Let him know you would love to buy him everything he wants!!! But you can't.

ETA, I have to agree with OH, you have a job! You've kept it for years! You're ahead of the game here. My DH hasn't worked in 9 years, though he is very very good with the children. If he had refused to be a SAHD, I don't know what I'd have done.

Edited again, sorry! I have got the idea from reading your posts over the years that you can't get a job that would keep your wife happy. No matter how much you earn, she seems to be able to waaay outspend it. This is JMO, and doesn't make her a bad person. Though it does make her mentaly ill.

MB worked in my marriage even with active addictions...difference was...we were in MC working to stop the addictions...

and we did. Radical honesty works even in the face of addiction.

I don't believe you, Hold...I don't believe you know what you'd do if your DW stepped up, took hold her power, centered herself in her limits and acted from love for you. I have no doubt she would have an entirely different experience of you...even if you didn't change.

LA

Sorry for all the victim puke.

Every day I am torn. Split down the middle. Part of me wants to love my wife. To reach out for her. To cuddle with her. To share my life intimately.

Part of me is afraid. Of rejection. Of not being rejected. I want to hug her. But I fear rejection. I want to have sex with her. But I fear not only rejection, but inability to perform. So I do not ask. I stay away from the bedroom until long after she is asleep. Or I climb into bed but stay far away on my side.

Meanwhile, every fibre of my being cries out to reach for her. While every ounce of my willpower holds me immobile.

It is a constaint strain. A constant tension. It is wearing me down. Exhausting me. Tearing me apart.

Some days are better than others. SOme days I can function. Some days I can't. Too often I come here to vent when the pressure gets too much for me.

I shouldn't take this out on you guys. Thank you for listening to my ravings.

Many posters here have told me to bag MBers until H gets into treatment for alcoholism. They're probably right but he denies the problem. Yet, I still try to work the program. Is that the definition of insanity? Maybe I have more in common with Mrs. Hold than Hold.


Well if you were really stupid like me, you would have just sucked up your resentment when he started moaning and groaning at 3PM..where are you? I have to get out of the house. You have to leave work early and come home...etc. AND...left me with the bulk of the housework too. And you would have sat on that resentment and let it simmer for years and years and years.

http://www.boughtoutandspent.com/

http://www.moneyharmony.com/book.html

A few books I came across while surfing.

Hold...is there any chance she has taken this as far as shoplifting or stealing from anyone other than you?

Wow, HOTI;

That is about as thick of fog babble that I have ever heard on this site. Trust me, if you were rationalising an A (instead of the self hate obsession thingy..on and on) people here would sniff it out in a minute and cook your can about it.

What kind of mother spends her family into the poorhouse, and wants to spend $5k on an non imparative activity for her son? Tens of thousandds of dollars this woman has frauded from her FAMILY fund. For what?
What kind of mom spends her family into the poorhouse?
The kind of mother who is married to a father who enables good ol' ma to put their children's futures at stake.

She is an addict-- hello-- mentally ill. And she has found, obviously her perfect match. Yeah, I know that is harsh- but just go back about a thousand fogspeak rants and see what I and others here can see. People are telling you here YOU have an issue, and you just ignor it and continue on.

So, can you budget an alcoholics booze? No, you insist they get off the sauce. If you love them or your family-- (yeah I know, you hate so and so and yourself..blah blah blah)
If you think your kids are going to love an appreciate you (with this card house of lies, addiction and general dysfunction) you are wrong. I bet your children are smart as whips. The best thing you could do it to
INSIST ON TREATMENT FOR YOURSELF AND YOUR WIFE.


Does your family know what has happened? About all the money, embezeling and debt?
Does hers? Why not?
Why is she allowed to wheel around like "bigshot Molly" and screw her children's futures over (note: I am not even addressing your future- you are an adult and if you want to let her pi$$ it away that is your choice)

I feel sorry for your kids. They will be the ones to suffer in this economy (your kids fafsa is based on YOUR credit ratings) You let this go on for TEN YEARS?

You are older, I believe I read. Why did you not do an intervention before now? sex? fear? you hate X,Y,Z...?

You come here to "vent" and browbeat yourself- but nothing but fog and dust ever really happens. That is not MB. You know that, you write well and I can tell you are smart.

I agree with what Barbie said. Why not take control and quit giving your wife money? Then force her into treatment. Barbie is right, your wife wants to prance around like "Big Shot Molly"> but it is all fake. Your wife has damaged the family, the kids, and you. And you sit around and take it. I have asked this 100 times from you HOLD. Why not confront your wife and take full control of the finances.

Oh Hold. I'm sorry.

I understand these feelings--I have not lived there as long as you have, but I have certainly been in that place.

You deserve love, hold. You really do.

I still hope your wife is the one to give you love--but I'm quite sure that you need to start giving it to yourself... with believing you deserve it, because you do.

I was horny this morning. Equipment seemed to be working. I wandered by Mrs. Hold naked. She invited me into her "lair" (her word). Was nice. On the way out the door she said "have a nice day" and I replied "I already did" and she giggled.

Point is I listened to you guys. I was in the living room planning on servicing myself and thought "this is nuts, I should at least give her a chance to meet my needs." So I wandered into the computer area and it went well.

And last night she was talking to S15 about the summer. They were viewing more programs. I told them "money is not infinite, and we have not yet allocated anything to D12 or the rest of the family. I am not enthusiastic about allocating more to S15 at this time. How about being a CIT?" They said that was a good idea and they will look into being a CIT at a local university that runs a sports camp over the summer. We shall see.

Maybe being eeyore all the time isn't such a good idea.

That is hardly an impulse buy from my standards. You did the research and got a good value. That is smart shopping. An impulse buy would be buying a big-screen TV, without the wife's knowledge, when you don't have two nickels to rub together, and bringing it home, only to find out that it doesn't fit through the door of your mobile home! That is what my nephew did a few years back. The TV went back to the store that night.


It is called separating wants from needs. It is very simple; no rocket science required. My nephew did not need that TV; they had a perfectly functional TV already. He just saw it in the store and thought to himself, "I want that" with no consideration of whether they could really afford it, much less get it through the front door!

Right now, I drive a compact sedan that has 130K miles on it and is low to the ground and as my knees continue to age, it is difficult to get into and out of. I want one of those crossovers like a Toyota Rav 4 or a Honda CRV or maybe a Lexus (one can dream, right?). They're higher off the ground, and the all-wheel drive would be nice in the winter. But I don't need it; my current car gets me around just fine. So I keep driving it, watch enviously as other people drive their fancy new cars, then laugh to myself because my little sedan is paid for.

I also wouldn't mind having an iPhone and getting all those cool apps. But my cell phone, which I can use to make and receive calls, is all I need. A new iPhone would not only be expensive to buy, it would be expensive to keep up as the monthly charge would be far greater than the $32/month plan I have now (limited minutes and no texting).

There is no one on the face of this planet that needs an iPhone. Or an expensive entertainment system. Or a Lexus SUV. Or a McMansion. Or fancy parties for their children. The list goes on. It's all a matter of priorities.

Hold,

I so know that feeling and fearing rejection. But I was wrong in my thinking and belief in that regard, and those fears were mostly based on how I was not accepting of myself, including my flaws, and imperfection.

One of the points in NMMNG was being int he mindset of I as an adult person has absolute control of what I want and what I choose to believe in my life. First, it is ok to be me, just the way I am. Be it horny and wanting sex, be it believing in a sexually fulfilling marriage, be it conservative in financial matters, be it heavier in weight to the so called ideal weight. These are all my choices for me.

Now as far as "fearing" rejection in sex with the wife. This was a struggle for me to get off that thinking. I told thw fei how I felt, and her answer was that she was not rejecting me, it is not me, it is her. She don't feel like it, she is tired, etc. Even though I hear her, I still felt and took it as a personal rejection. WHY?

WHY? The answer NMMNG gave to me were Abundance, and Validation. Sex was not in abundance in my thinking, simply because I "let go" of the responsibility of meeting that need by my wife. Healthy Masturbation (HM) solves the "scarcity" of sex.

There was a point where I thought that HM was not right in the M, but that thinking was leading me in the position of entitlement and expectation. I also had feelings of "toxic shame" or some semblance of "failure" when I had to resort to HM to get sex in my marriage. But going back to the original point in NMMNG, "I am the only person in this world responsible for meeting my needs." This was against my belief in marriage, because I "expected" and felt "entitled" that sex will happen in the marriage.

I remove that expectation and entitlement. I introduce abundance via HM. And what sex happens in my marriage, is from my choice, and her choice. It is what makes the marriage. I let her know how I feel, and what I want, but it is her choice to meet my needs. I am no longer dependent on anyone to meet my sexual needs. It removes my effort "to try and fix" and instead focus my effort on improving myself and "let the marriage grow."

That said, there are still times that I fall into the "spiral thinking of withdrawing and brooding and feeling depressed and generating resentment." It is my right to "feel" any of those. And I find ways to express them. And I also know that my feelings change, so I find ways to cope and consciously put my effort to feel something more positive. Or enforce and remind myself that "I am ok just the way I am."

I also had to start believing and living that "I am a likable and lovable" person. I was always my harshest critique, because I was a perfectionist and put higher standards for myself. I felt such a failure despite many accomplishments, and many goals achieved. I was not "content" with myself despite the fact that my kids are thrilled with the time and effort and attention I give to them.

During one of those radical honest conversations I have with my wife, we told each other what we appreciate from our spouse, and my wife said a litany of things that I do and don't think much of them because "I expected them". But she said that those are likable and lovable qualities, and when I do go in that withdrawal and brooding mode, my wife told me it is as she is punishing them (her and the kids).

After that, I realize that I do not need to hear such appreciation and gratitude "to feel good, to feel appreciated." I have the ability to self-gratitude because I know what I do not just for myself, but for my wife and kids. Many call it ego, and I realize that many people can't handle my ego--but I think it is healthy for my sake and my marriage and my family to live in the mindset that I am worthy and those around me are blessed to have me in their life.

I use to have thoughts just as you are now Hold. How much a failure I was, how unlovable and unlikable and unworthy I am. I navel gazed and realizes that those list of expectations I had for myself needed to be re-examined by my adult self. Meaning, that I have the power to choose which values and beliefs I want in my life from today and the rest of my life.

So I chose to "lead" my life as how I defined it. How I chose which values are for me and which beliefs are not for me. And lead I do, and my wife chooses to follow. It's her choice.

YAY, HOLD!!

Two steps in one day!

Be proud for taking those steps, and savor how good it feels to have taken them!!

Yes, there are always Eeyore days, but Pooh days are good, too.

Yay!!!!

Have a wonderful wonderful day, Hold!

:-)

So happy that today was a good day.

Smiling at Hold...:)

Oh, Hold...kudos on choosing differently. My belief is that last night you set up this morning...radical honesty is really sexy...saying no is sexy...

and then saying yes is...

thank you for opening yourself up to that experience. Kudos to your wife, too, for both of her parts.



And here I would have thought a couple of years ago, that since you said no the night before to her spending idea, that for sure she'd have shut you down harshly this morning.

Even while you experience your wife as not changing...she changes.

As do you. Maybe you're just catching up with yourself.



LA

Shabbat Shalom, Hold...

Spent the weekend in Florida. Had to go to a meeting on Friday to help my Dad with a legal problem and then the storm kept me stuck down there until Sunday night.

Friday night we went to a wine tasting event with a bunch of their friends. Saturday I tried and failed to get home, then we went for pizza with another couple they know.

I had a great time with my parents. We have not been alone together in probably 15+ years (since my son was born). It was nice to have time to myself with them. So in the end it wasn't so bad to be stuck in Florida an extra day.

Wishing everyone the best for the coming holidays.

hold, I gotta tell ya, I just quit coming to your thread; just wandered in here by accident, not expecting anything but more misery.

Just...wow.

Same here Cat. I would have missed this entirely if you had not quoted it.

Good for you Hold!