You're right, reading. I'll take a cue from Scotland and post a summary for the new folks:

Wife of 6.5 years told me 10/23 she was leaving the M. But said that she had no place to go. The next day, when I asked, she admitted the OM. Asked why she couldn't just move in with OM. She said it was "complicated." I knew that meant he was married. A few days later, after me doing some research, she confirmed OM's identity. Turns out he's 4 years younger and married with 4 kids. Also confirmed he and OMW are separated. Oh, he also just underwent surgery for prostate cancer.

Unaware of MB, I told WW that I would get a D as soon as the law would allow. In VA, that's six months when no children are involved. WW has kids from a previous M (she's been Mx3 before us). Got a lawyer and we signed a separation agreement. As she had no place to go, I agreed to let her stay at home until Nov. 30 at the latest.

Five weeks, and she made no effort to find work (she'd been fired from her job in July) or a place to live. But spent as much time with OM as possible. Moved out on Nov. 30, taking about two suitcases of stuff. By now, I'd bought SAA and found MB. Handed her Plan B letter as she left. At the same time, I was beginning the Stick part of Plan A, exposing the A.

She tried a couple of times to break NC by requesting items from home. I allowed her to pick up a box I'd packed and put on the porch, but other than one other attempt to retrieve stuff, no other contact. Learned from my attorney (she won't use the IM) that she wants to complete the move out Jan. 9.

That's the story. Here are some new facts: She got some money from the sale of her late parents' property. She's renting an apt., putting six months rent + security deposit on it. Is going to rent a storage unit to hold furniture she can't put in the apt. I think she's waiting for us to D and OM to D so the two can M. Six months, huh...?

I also learned that her original A.A. sponsor called her today, and they spoke for a long time. I had emailed her sponsor (who was also WW's bridesmaid) about the A. I have not heard anything from the sponsor, so I can only speculate on what was said. It can't be coincidence, though.

So there it is: WW began the A some time after she was fired in July. It's in full bloom, and I think the chances of R are slim and none. And Slim is walking out the door...

Fred, what you describe in your wife falls very much in line with a personality disorder. These folks compartmentalize like crazy and paint people black and move on. They leave a trail of destruction.
As your wife ages, she may have less opportunity with men. Men and women who have lived their lives as your WW has, ofetn end up alone.
You are very lucky to be getting out. Your daughter, not blinded by the romantic element, sees this woman for who she is. Listen to her.

It's possible she doesn't feel true guilt or remorse about leaving her kids. It's possible that she just misses them for what they provide to her (e.g. something to be proud of). People without a conscience often do the right things, but usually only when it benefits them directly. They also exhibit regret and remorse, but again these feelings are actually about their own personal loss rather than their effects on others.

Fred,

I did not read this whole thread but a few early posts of Zelmo stuck out for me.

Bubbles, please explain. I know Zelmo takes heat for his position here on MB. In one post I said I hated/loved reading his posts because he made me examine things from a different point of view, and that some of those points came very close to hitting home.

Hi. When you mentioned about the link to the sociopath site, I read this thread and the first few pages, Zelmo also mentioned she may have a mental problem.

1. She has bad credit and spends money on junk
2. She had 3 marriages
3. She drank heavily
4. Kids taken away from her
5. She is cold toward the kids
6. Cannot keep a job
7. Not remorseful about the affair
8. Does not care how she hurts you

I would also ask your daughter(and perhaps others too) what she observes about your wife. She might see things you do not see yet. I am sorry you accidently got stuck with a woman like this.

We have a friend who keeps taking his wife back after multiple affairs. When he first met her 9 years ago, she gave him this sob story about how her former (2) husband's were abusive, etc.

Well, he found out they were not that way. It was HER. But her blaming of the other husband's did attract the man to marry her and feel sorry for her and "want to take care" of her.

This woman uses him for money and cheats on him. Why he keeps putting up with this bad treatment I do not know. She is a great manipulator and he is soft hearted.

He is losing his business and his home (this economy) and she wont ever work or help out with money. I am thinking if he loses everything she will go out looking for a new meal ticket.

This is what she did with the other two husbands. She used thier money until it was gone and then left to look for another husband. The sad part is, many of these people try to appear religious, or even go to church. Or pretend they are a reformed alcoholic or reformed other.....

How a person lived thier life in the past DOES tell you about thier character. If they have lived a certain way for 40 years they are not going to change.

Your wife lived with her addiction, her men, using people and neglecting her children. She also lies and has affairs which if you asked her other husbands, she probably did it to them too.

I dont see her changing anytime soon.

My daughter has been perhaps the most astute observer of WW, since she lives close and has been a part of our life. Yet she too, began to pull back after a while, something we've talked about since D-day. Ironically (?) my daughter was one of the people WW told about her plans to leave before she actually told ME!

In my story I have described how I have struggled to make sense of WW's behavior -- PRE and POST affair. I considered, and then discarded Zelmo's efforts to paint her as NPD or BPD, because she didn't seem to fit the criteria. But ~something~ didn't fit. Yes, she exhibited many of the WS "foggy" attributes, but there have also been startling disconnects. Not once has she contacted my IM. She's given no indication of any regret, and told me to my face that she has no remorse. Looking back, her lack of remorse, and apparent lack of conscience permeate her life story. That her own family (such as it is) wants nothing to do with her, her XH prohibits her from entering his house where their children live, and the destruction of people and families she's left in her wake all point to a disordered personality. I just couldn't place it.

As I mentioned earlier, the state mandates a six month waiting period before either party can file for divorce (we have no children of our own). Since she owns nothing I have any interest in, and I seek to protect my own finances and property, we have a signed Separation and Property Settlement Agreement. So I can work within the bounds of the law to implement the MB program. As I have said repeatedly, even if I can't restore the marriage, at least I can grow and become a better person. If I do not, then I risk becoming a very bitter person, whose "picker" is still flawed.

A.A. (as well as many other philosophies) says that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. I have had enough of my own insanity. It also says we are not bad people trying to get good, we are sick people trying to get well. My goal, with or without marital recovery, is to get healthier.

Fred,

Just make sure that you continue to work as hard on you as you did the first two months.

This is where those who do have a bonafide reason to suspect personality disorders and mental illness take a detour from their personal recovery - cause now they can see all the way back that there was nothing they could have done to stop the train wreck.

They fail to see what was within themselves that had them get on a doomed train in the first place.

So please stay focused on you - heed the 12 step warning about taking your own inventory and avoiding others...

You may want to attend an alanon meeting or two. (I know that's the despicable meeting for a lot of addicts, but true and total recovery doesn't happen until you heal your inner enabler/rescuer - which I think may be an appropriate exploration for you...)

Heat? Really? I thought everyone was in complete agreement with me.

Actually, I know of many people that have used the discovery about what type of person they married as a catalyst for changing what is broken within them. I do not see the detour behavior as frequently.

Zelmo - have you had that checked by a professional? Reads like a personality disorder to me!

KaylaAndy, just to update you, I am not only attending Al-Anon, but I have an Al-Anon sponsor with over 31 years! I got battered emotionally and bruised psychologically by WW, but since the day she moved out, I have re-affirming my commitment to my own sobriety and recovery. There has not been a day in December that I haven't been to at least one meeting (whoops, getting snowed in last Saturday...). And each day I look at the Steps and ask myself (as my sponsor used to do for years and years), "What Step are you on?"

MB has been extremely helpful, and I consider you folks to be my "third sponsor." You helped me get through the pain and anguish of my WW's moving out. You guided me and instructed me on how to Plan A and Plan B. I have learned to trust MB without hesitation.

*** I want to take a moment to thank EVERY person on MB who has taken their time and energy to step up and help me. I'd like to name specific people, but I'm sure I would overlook someone, so I'll just say "you know who you are" and I wish you a VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS, HAPPY HOLIDAY and BEST NEW YEAR! ***

This has been quite the journey ~ one I wouldn't wish on anyone ~ I have spent hours every day reading, posting and learning. I'm not about to stop now, because the journey is far from over. I spent the first 11 years of my sobriety in no relationship at all ~ wondering what might be the problem with me ~ which made me susceptible to a pretty face and the things I wanted to see and hear. So I blocked out the red flags ~ and warnings from those I should have heeded ~ because I so wanted to be in a relationship.

So it looks like I was taken. And despite all that, part of me wants her back.

My understanding of Plan B is that is has a twofold purpose:

• It makes the WS realize what life is like without you.
• It prepares the BS for the possibility of life without WS.

I plan to continue Plan B with both possibilities in mind.

Nah ... I "diagnose" an untreated Al Anon (he's met all the criteria).

I'm guessing that it has been the program you've worked before you got here (in Alanon) that has made it possible for you to be successful at Plan A and Plan B - you had already separated her "stuff" from your true nature and wasn't deceived like many here are).

Congrats - and "keep coming back. It works. When you work it."

Yep - hence the need for a label, a reason, anything.

Shudder - now I know why I react to him the way I do. My first Alanon meeting was led by a couple of untreated Al Anons! I couldn't escape fast enough. I had to find someone out of the meeting for a sponsor who was tough as nails and fantastic at bringing the focus back to me and my behaviors/heart/mind/inventory/recovery.

(Note: The following is more to journal my thoughts than to reach out and ask for help. If anyone derives any benefit from it, or has questions and advice, that's great).

My daughter has been very astute and observant about WW. More than once since D-day has she told me, "Dad, WW is a chameleon." Once in response to my shock at the fact that WW had resumed smoking, she commented, "of course, OM smokes..."

She also told me that early on, WW had told DD that she "hated running." But now she's an avid runner. Because I am...? Her smoking will change that, I think. A chameleon? It makes sense.

Given my ongoing research into AsPD and sociopathy, my perspective about WW is shifting, too. Startlingly, it makes sense, too. Too much sense, in fact!

When I learned of WW's affair I first sought to blame OM. After all, he was a predator, separated from his wife, and horny. WW was vulnerable and susceptible. She had been fired from her job (unjustly, in her opinion), effectively ending her career, which had sent her into an emotional tailspin.

But now I wonder who was the predator and who was the victim? Last December I suffered a back injury that put me into constant pain and discomfort (not to mention a crimp in the SF department). In January, I was laid off from work. Fortunately, I had enough $$$ put away to pay the bills until I found new work -- miraculously only six weeks later. But I lost my vacation time, health benefits and tenure, and could not begin treatment for my back for a couple of months. Treatment did not work immediate miracles, and after WW lost her job, I was still struggling to get back on my feet (literally and figuratively).

D-day came one night after I'd finished paying bills and noted with sadness that my bank balance had diminished considerably. She dropped the bomb on me immediately after I'd come to the bedroom and announced that for the first time 15 years, I couldn't pay all the bills in one sitting if I had to. Nice time to lay the Big One on me, right? And only four days after my birthday, where she said she hadn't gotten me anything because SHE had no money...

Fast forward to today. She's hooked up with a separated father of four, who's just undergone prostate cancer surgery. What little I know of this operation, everything I've learned indicates that it renders the patient impotent -- at least for a period of up to six months -- and incapable of ejaculating permanently! Hardly the basis for a PA, isn't it?

So maybe HE isn't the predator -- maybe SHE is! A few days ago I mentioned finding old telephone records which suggested that SHE initiates dialog between them more often than not. Desperation? Needing attention? Or keeping her prey on the hook?

And now, guess what? She's got his credit card! Why would she need that? She's just received $$$ from the sale of family property. Directly deposited into a new bank account -- not the one where she's severely overdrawn, I might add. Plus, the calls from her creditors continue, although now I just tell them she no longer lives here, and the frequency has fallen off.

Some folks here suggested that I look into personality disorders; that my WW's background and behavior suggested such. The very first respondent to my initial post (sickwithworry) wrote asking, "Do you want to save and repair your marriage? I read a lot of the backstory, but you seem to stop short of committing to whether you are willing to go to the wall to save the marriage." I think the little voice in the back of my mind was already sending out alert signals.

I did not want to consider the possibility that the woman I loved and wanted to spend the rest of my life with could be mentally ill. Yes, she is (as am I) a recovered alcoholic, but my time in the Fellowship working the Program suggests that "broken" people can be made whole by it. I think I read here (or somewhere) that even when a broken vase is made whole again, there will always be questions about if it can hold water. I failed to consider that.

So now I ponder the future on Christmas Eve. The dreams I had have been shattered. I will need to create new dreams -- even if WW comes out of her fog and thinks our marriage is the right path to be on. I too, am coming out of my own fog (Fear, Obligation and Guilt). For the first time in two months, since D-day, I slept last night without Ibuprofen PM, and feel like my recovery is under way. I will continue to work the MB program (as well as the A.A. and Al-Anon programs) until there is closure on this most painful time of my life. I will continue to come here and ask for guidance and help. This is not the end of the story, just the end of one chapter.

--End of long rant--

Just a typical delusion, KA. Nothing to worry about. Okay, I'm off to address Congress.

Hey Fred, this is contrary maybe but I am thinking you should be GLAD to give your wife over to this other man. Then, he will have to deal with her problems, spending issues, bad credit, dry drunkeness, uncaring personality, and selfishness.

**edit**

These things seem to come to a head as TRUTH is revealed about who she is and what is important to her! **edit**
Be free!

I guess hearing about her having her paws on his credit card to use(already) put me over the edge!!! Fred, how did you find this out again????