Thanks for viewing this post. I am getting typical answers from those I know (leave him) and I need help.

Read the books a few years ago; trying to get them from library again. May order online. Have read articles and posts here.
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Feb 08- Brother in law dies unexpectedly. Age 36.

Summer 08 - an already troubled marriage starts to unravel (learned a lot about the LB I was throwing out).
Husband drinks and is gone constantly. I suspect, but cannot find proof. Long, hard 1.5 yrs to follow. I did not know how to support him (alcohol abuse frustrated me), and my lack of kindness (LB) created an opening for OW. I start counseling by myself. Go to a few Al-non meetings. He is grieving horribly, but it was hard to discern due to previous alcohol abuse.

July 09 - Husband and I go on a trip for a few days. I can just sense something is wrong.

Aug 09- Go to bar with husband (farewell party for coworker of his). Husband is trashed. I leave him with a good friend that will drive him home. (she was at the bar that night, but I didn't suspect- he was kissing on me in front of her). One hour later, his cell phone calls mine. The OW is teasing him sexually and he is very drunk and doesn't realize she is using his phone. She calls back a few times, and when I've heard enough, I hang up. She goes through his phone, sends texts to herself saying they were from me, and creates an entire story of lies to defend herself by the time he wakes up.

He wakes up at her place, no idea what has happened. Confrontation in parking lot ensues. He cries, begs. We do not separate and try to reconcile. They had been having affair for about a year. Said he tried to break it off but she was stalking him (found cell records - she sometimes texted him 20 times a day). Those that know: our kids (DD 9 and 12), my mom, a few girlfriends, and his mom (I told her, but she never mentioned it to him). P.S. OW lost her husband in a motorcycle accident - i think they share the bond of grieving.

Sept, Oct, Nov, Dec 09 - I try hard, but I am hurting and some days are not good, and I try to push him away. My counselor said it is a normal part of the healing process.

Some days are great. He takes the good and bad from me with kindness; he won't give up. He says there is no contact, that he felt set up, that he can't stand her, etc. Worst mistake of his life. Nothing suspicious on cell phone records. Slowly the trust rebuilds.

He is still grieving the loss of his brother, and drinks too much.

Yesterday - Husband comes home from second job. I hop in shower so we can "hop in bed". Noise in bathroom wakes up DD. She hears husband make call on house phone to OW. Says "Hey Baby". Asks what times she gets off. OW apparently wants to meet, and he says "I can't, I can't". I get out of shower and we hop into bed together (as I look back, that makes me sick to my stomach).

Today - daughter tells me what she heard the night before, when husband leaves for work. I use last number redial and OW picks up, but she won't talk. Confront husband, he lies. Find house phone records, calls go back many months (not real frequently). Also see a call here and there on his cell phone (she changed her number).

Called my mom b/c I was a wreck. She goes to his job (works at his job PT) and confronts him; and he calls me and confesses. Says after it ended OW called saying she needed closure and would kill herself. Said they are just friends and he has only met her in a parking lot once because she said she needed to see him for closure.

Says he will go to counseling, etc. He has promised before, so I don't bite (numb at this point) . . .Says he only returns calls to ask why she keeps calling, which is BS because my daughter described exactly how he was talking to OW (by the way, we have not put DD in the middle).

I called OW and she won't call back. The first time I found out, she wanted to tell me details, but I didn't want to hear. This time she is not talking. That may confirm his story of no physical contact, b/c she would be dying to tell me if there had been some.

I ask him to leave. He falls apart-sobbing. Tonight he is in a hotel. Talked to him, and all he does is cry (he rarely cries). Says he is so stupid, and can't live w/o me.

I guess I kind of went to Plan B without an A (last few months were kind of like an A). I've been doing lots of spiritual work over the past year. Trying to take care of myself, but what do I do now? . .

I am open to any advice. I told him that I was filing for divorce, but I am unsure what I want. In my heart, I know that this is a big opportunity for spiritual growth and that I need to let go and stop worrying - just live in the moment, but what do I do about day to day life? I asked him not to contact me until Sunday night, and he cried because we can't spend New Years eve together.

There are things about me that need to change too, but I can't find safe ground to do so. I am so lost right now, and thought seriously about ending my life a few weeks ago. The pain of this whole thing is unbearable sometimes, but I know those are my issues. I think he needs help to get over the loss of his brother (and the drinking) before we can continue, and being it our home makes it too comfortable for him. I'm enabling him.

But, I also know that her home is always open to him, and if he feels very lost he may end up there.

Thanks so much for your help.

Welcome to MB, itisme. I'm sorry that you are here under such terrible circumstances.

I am drawn to your post because I also suffered a false recovery. I found out about my H's affair 6 weeks into it. We then had what I thought was a spectacular recovery. 2 years later, to the very week, I found out that he had never ended the affair. I then spent about another 14 months dithering between walking away and being gaslighted. My H's affair took place in Belgium - we live in London - where he worked about 4 days per month. It was easy for him to hide and impossible for me to prove was continuing. I had a near breakdown over that time.

You seem to be in the same position where you will not be able to prove that the affair finishes, and thus you can be easily gaslighted by your H. By the way, do not set ANY store in the fact that OW will not reveal to you. My H's OW was frightened to reveal to me, although she wanted H to leave me for her. She did not want to force the end of his marriage, because she knew he would blame her and eventually hate her, so their new relationship would not be a success. She once rang me and promised that it was over, because she had a job in another country (which was true) and so she would not be able to see my H when he visited Belgium (which was not true). However, she tried to let me find out by accident that the affair was continuing by sending him text messages that she knew I would see.

Going by my experience, you will have to take drastic action in order to be sure that the affair is over, and by the sound of it, that means moving away yourself. It sounds as if OW lives near you, but you do not mention her and H working together. If they work together he will have to leave that job. My H simply stopped travelling to Belgium -throwing his company into disarray - the day I packed my bags to move out. His OW continued to phone him at work, however, and in the end, after I found MB, I exposed to her H. He made her give up the job in the new country and move back home if she wanted to stay married. He watches her from his end and from my end, I know my H never spends nights away from me, or travels abroad for any reason without me. You can travel from London to Brussels in about 4 hours, so day trips to meet an affair partner are completely possible, so I have to know that when he is not with me, he is at his desk at work.

Dr Harley recommends that a wife moves away if an H will not stop his affair. He says that you will have to move as a couple anyway to avoid OW, and you might as well start the process yourself. Tell H he can follow you whenever he is ready. Move right away, near to your family or friends if possible. When I have moment I will find his article on this website.

Your marriage will never recover, and the affair will not stop, until there is absolute non-contact (NC) for life between your H and OW, and he does not want this to happen. Neither does she. If you wait for his conscience to kick in you will have several more false recoveries.

If your H wanted to leave with her he would have done so by now. He probably does not want to live with her and he probably does not want to leave you. However, he wants BOTH OF YOU and you are quite right to refuse this. He, however, will thwart your every attempt to stop it. If he wants this hard enough, then no amount of discussion, religion, appeal to conscience, talk of your children, tears or medical help for you will change him permanently. Those things will make him feel bad for a few days or weeks, but OW will reach him and tell him how much he has hurt her and used her. He will not want her to feel hurt or used, and will go back to her and lie to you again.

Not all affairs are as I have described, but I am saying this about your H's because of what has happened already.

Don't make any decisions about divorce now. Read all the articles here first, and wait for more responses from posters. Take time before you make a major decision.

IIM, the veterans will be along in a short bit and you will start getting a lot of questions and a lot of very good suggestions. I am just a very sleep-deprived betrayed spouse (BS) who wants to welcome you to the worst club in the world with some of the best people you can imagine as members.

Do you want to save your marriage? That's the #1 question, and what this site is all about. You sound much like me: very conflicted about the present and the future. One thing that I notice is that you mention your husband's drinking. Dr. Harley suggests that marital recovery is made very difficult when dealing with an alcoholic/addict.

Another issue to consider is that if your H is still engaged in an A with OW, nothing he says will be the truth. Do not believe him when he says there is no contact. If you think you are in recovery mode, ask him to write a No Contact (NC) letter to OW with your approval that YOU mail to her. He will also need to give you full access to his telephone, computer, etc.

I'm getting ahead of myself. I'm sorry. You need to read up thoroughly on Plan A and Plan B. It sounds like your H is actively engaged in an A. You need to work the Carrot and Stick of Plan A: be the ultimate "giver" to your H while you collect PROOF of his A. When you have irrefutable proof, you need to go nuclear and expose the A. Be advised that he will attempt to spin the story if you do it in dribs and drabs.

Get one or more voice-activated recorders (VAR). Do NOT tell him. Plant them in places you know/suspect he carries on telephone calls and conversations. If he uses a computer, get a keylogger. If necessary, hire a P.I. to track his activities.

It's time to get a PLAN. This is what MB does. Hang in there, and if you want to recover your marriage, the good folks here will help you do the utmost to do that. Stay strong.

SugarCane, thanks immensely for your story and reply.

Wow, discovering a false recovery 2 years later - that is brutal.

1. I am in this town because I have very little family - mom, brother and niece. I cannot (will not) move away - it is the only family that my children know.

2. OW works about a mile away, in a restaurant next to a bar. Husband plays poker at the bar, and that is how they met. He played there awhile after I found out, but eventually stopped. She goes to the bar alot and told some regulars there, so some people at the bar knew about the A. What was odd is - he told me this week that he was thinking of playing poker there again. Grrr . . .

3. Given that he struggles with addictions, I think that he is more attracted to the fact that there is an "OW", than he actually is to the OW. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in denial- they had sex, and attraction is there. But, he has had plenty of chances to move in with her, and doesn't.

We call this "cake eating" here. As in, "having one's cake and eating it, too."

The reason he doesn't move in with OW is that he gets all of the benefits of a "home life" with you and unbridled, uncommitted sex with OW.

I may be in the minority, but I think you need to toss him out. read up on Plan B. As long as you enable his A, he has no reason to change his behavior. If you kick him out (and make no mistake, HE LEAVES, NOT YOU) he'll have to "fish or cut bait," as they say. If he wants to save your M, he'll do what's required. If not, then you have already taken the first steps toward improving your own life.

Thanks for your reply, Fred_in_VA. Great insight.

1. It is funny you ask me if I want to save the marriage. I asked myself that same question this morning. I am not sure what "cost" is too high for me.

2. Yes, our lives are very affected by his drinking. That is one of the reasons I asked him to move out - because we have so many issues it is hard to separate, and he needs time to see that. He has to hit a rock bottom, and living here comfortably with me loving him does not a rock make.

3. I read Plan A and B. That is why I was confused about what to do next - because I am doing both plans. Do I back up and do A, or just proceed to a real B? He is out of the house, but we talked last night.

4. Do I still need proof? He admits the affair, and to keeping contact with her. I used to have a cell phone that I was using to track him, but then I looked at myself and said "This is absolutely nuts". "Don't I deserve a relationship where I don't have to track my mate". I have call records from pre D-day and during the false recovery.

5. Yes, I need to get a plan. That is the hard part. I have spent so much of my life trying to plan for and control outcomes. For some reason, I feel that life is telling me to let it go. What will happen, happens.

I feel confused, but I think that my confusion comes from not being honest with myself about what I want. I am very tired of taking care of him over the last 15 years. I am not perfect, and have lots of work that I need to do on myself. Maybe it is time to start with me. How else can I find peace?

I am feeling so low today.

It is like you just took the words out of my mouth. That is exactly what I was thinking. Plan B it is, then. He has never been without my love and support - guess we'll see how he likes this. He may end up with her, he may not. But, at least I can try to reclaim some peace in my life. Thanks.

IIM, do you understand the Carrot & Stick of Plan A (sorry, I don't have the link handy: search for Pepperband, Carrot & Stick and you'll find it)? It calls for you to be the wife your H fell in love with, suppressing your "Taker" while being the "Giver." At the same time, you search, snoop, gather and collect all the proof you can. If you have proof that would stand up in a court of law, you are ready to EXPOSE, EXPOSE, EXPOSE.

You tell everybody: Friends, relatives, co-workers, employers, pastors, the mailman, if necessary. You tell EVERYONE that is in a position to put pressure on the A in order to destroy it. This is WAR! You are not fighting your WH, or even the OW. You are fighting the AFFAIR. As long as it continues, there is nothing you can do to save your M.

Plan A is limited in time due to the emotional strain it puts on one. That is why Plan B follows. Plan B's twofold purposes are to show the WS what they are missing when the M is gone, and it protects the BS from further emotional abuse by the WS's A.

Even though he has moved out, I wouldn't rush into Plan B. As in my case, no Plan A (or a very abbreviated one) lessens the chance of Plan B working successfully (if you define success as the saving of your M).

A key problem is his drinking. Dr. Harley says that Plans A & B have little chance of success with an active addict/alcoholic. And as someone who knows that side of the street, I might even suggest that you distance yourself from the active alcoholic, because they always seem to drag those they love into the hole with them. Do you want this? Perhaps you should find and attend some Al-Anon meetings if you haven't already...

((((itisme))))

Sorry you are here. However, this is the best place to be in your shoes and the vets will be able to help you formulate a plan. I would like to address some of your concerns.

You don't have to make this decision today. The MB plans will work for you regardless of what your choice is here. You will either end up with a recovered marriage or personal recovery - it's a win-win situation. You have been brutally wounded - you need to heal before you make these decisions. The plans will help you to heal.
I'm glad you understand this. It is very important. There are several vets here dealing with addictions and alcoholism in addition to adultery. They will help you.

Plan B is meant to follow Plan A. It is also necessary to go completely dark - no contact whatsoever. If you are talking, you are not in Plan B (yet). Another critical component of Plan B is that you write him a letter detailing what is required for him to return to the marriage. This will include no contact (NC) for life with the OW, treatment for alcoholism and any extraordinary precautions (EPs) you wish him to take to protect the marriage from future affairs.

Though you don't need any more proof that the affair existed, if you do head towards recovery, you will need proof that it is not a second false recovery. He has to earn your trust back.


The MB plans will help you do this. They may help you recover your marriage as well. There are no guarantees on this. But if you apply them, you will be helping yourself. It is a very important component of the plans.

Good luck itisme and keep posting here. There are some wonderful people here who have walked in your shoes.

Since your children are at risk of losing their family to adultery and divorce, this is not a good reason to stay. That family can come visit you. Or you can visit them. But the family lifestyle is going to change one way or another. You might as well make it geography instead of destroyed.

Itsme,
Sorry you are here. Very good advice and questions from everyone. Harley writes as long as there is addiction it is difficult to try and R marriage. Your WH needs to deal with addiction first. He needs to commit making and proving to you that change. Plan A is only intended for a few weeks for BW's because it is very painful. You may find this article interesting. Theres a good example of living with alcoholic.

Harley article on co-dependency

I would also suggest Plan B - you can post Plan B letter here and we will help you.

Gg

Wow. Great advice here. Thanks!!

I read the Carrot and Stick post. I get it - somewhat.

I am so confused. Plan A or B? Carrot and Stick? I am trying to see what feels right in my gut, but I am not sure. I am debating on texting him to ask how he is doing . . . I am reading the co-dependancy article now. Thanks.

Maybe this is not relevant, but I wonder if it means anything. I took my kids to a movie while he gathered some things and left - I put him out. This is the note I found when I came home.
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Hello family,
Just wanted to let you all know how extremely sorry I am for putting you in this situation. I am only human, and we all make mistakes. Some worse than others. I just wanted to say thanks for being such a great family.I know what I did is probably unforgetable, but everything is forgiveable. I have never been so embarrassed in my life. I really let you guys down bad, and I am sorry for that. Maybe one day I will understand why I did what I did, but for now all I can say is stupidity. I have never loved anything more than my 3 girls (2 DD and me) and I am ashamed to say how bad I feel for something like this to bring us apart, especially before I could bring in another great year with you all. Just so you girls know, Mommy is the best thing that every happened to me and I know you girls feel the same way. I can only hope that we can be back together again. There is nothing in the world that I wouldn't do to have her back. She is the smartest woman I have ever known. (my name), these years we have spent together have meant so much to me and I know you are saying if they meant so much why risk it. Once again, stupidity. Well, I just want to say that no matter what happens in the future I will always love you girls forever and ever. Love Daddy :-)

Plan A is intended when you live together so you can show him what the best marriage could be while getting him to end contact (stick part). Plan B is to protect you (from his drama) while he stays in contact with OW and continues to make marriage-wrecking choices. Visit the Newsletter forum and read the articles on When to Call it Quits and Unconditional love. I think you need to make it clear to him - to even consider reconciliation he has to take action about his addiction. Every time he has problem in life is he going to turn to alcohol. His letter is nice but doesn't prove anything with action and that is what you need right now.

Gg

Ahh, that article on co-dependancy was perfect. I have made the right decision - I'm not just dealing with the affair - I'm dealing with the alcohol, marijuana, and all the other crazy things he has been involved in over the years. There is always "something". I'll head over to the newsletter forum next.

I feel a bit better now. I finally got him out of the house for a breather, and I need to hold fast. He'll never have a reason to change if I keep making it safe for him. He also will never really look at his life if I continue this soap opera with him. I'll probably find some Al-non meetings again and continue with my counselor. I have to admit, I'm very very sad, but my house feels different today. I jumped off the roller coaster, and the OW gave me the courage to do it after 15 years.

Thanks so much. I am so thankful that you all are here, along with these great resources.

I think it was Maya Angelou who said something like "when you know better you do better". I'm glad the information here is helping you know better

Gg

From the letter you posted, it sounds like H is not "there yet" with owning his affair. Phrases like we all make mistakes, some things aren't forgettable but everything is forgiveable sounds like subtle manipulation or justifying to me. I say this as a FWW who played some of these mind games with herself. He has to honestly see it for what it is.

There are so many people here who have walked through this as Bs's and recovered, whether married or not. Just keep listening to what they say.

Why is nothing in life easy?

He just called crying again. Skipped work. Said he needs help, and considered ending his life last night. I called my counselor. She said this is not the time to stonewall him because he may be in danger, so I'm going to meet him around the corner so my kids don't see him. I have a number my counselor gave me for a recovery place, and I/he is going to call when the open later today.

I said I would come as long as he understood he can't come back home or have a relationship with me until he gets help.

Please pray for us (to whatever God you call your own). Thanks.

If he says again that he is thinking of ending his life, I would take him straight to the hospital. Here is why. First, if he is that close to suicide, it is beyond your scope of help. Second, if it is a bluff, and you call it by having hm admitted to the hospital, he is not likely to make that bluff again. He needs to know that crying suicide will get him psychiatric help, not a free pass back home. I say this as someone who has actually been suicidal. If he is, he needs outside help. If he isn't, shame on him for trying to play that card.

I am in 100% agreement with Luri on this, and I am surprised your counselor wouldn't have said the same...I am a firm believer that EVERY SINGLE TIME someone cries "suicide" you immediately call in psychiatric help...As Luri said, if they are indeed suicidal, they NEED that kind of help, and if not then "crying wolf" will not hold very much appeal for them in the future...Boundaries - Tough Love...

I also agree with Luri that your husband's letter rings very insincere - he's bummed he got CAUGHT, not that he behaved as he did...His letter sounds like an apology for being late for dinner, it for sure doesn't read like someone who understands the gravity of the situation...AND, it's WORDS - pay no attention to words - only ACTIONS count...

I would also make AA an requirement before he is ever allowed to return home...Until his alcohol addiction is treated, the MB program will not work...

Mrs. W

OK. I'm back home. I did good. Didn't fall for any of the traps I normally fall into. Sat there for an hour, and had to ask him to leave my car so I could leave.

My counselor did give me the suicide hotline number and her cell number. She also told me to call 911 if I need to.

I gave him the number for a local recovery place, bought him a meal, listened to him talk without commenting much or becoming emotional, gave him our insurance payment card, and ended the convo.

Woo Hoo for me. I am so proud of myself. After many years, I feel empowered. Even if he doesn't follow through, I finally have some control over my life again. There is a chance he will go to OW to get the unhealthy "co-dependence" that he was getting from me; if so, God bless her (she spends lots of time in bars).

P.S. He just called to let me know he called the place and left a message and that he is going to work. He asked if he could call me after his appt (hope he can get one today) and I said yes. I have begged for at least 12 years that he go to counseling. It is so amazing how setting healthy boundaries can be a catalyst for change.

P.S.S - If he pulls the suicide card again, I'll be ready.