I doubt if either my W or OM even considered the affair up or down issue. He was only interested in getting her into bed, and she was totally consumed by the fact that she was getting all of that attention from someone new. So much so that she no longer cared about right or wrong.

SC

Yeah, Squid did some pretty unpleasant things too.. * sigh *

anyway..from what bubbles wrote HERE for example :



... she seems to think that adulterers are scumbags who manifest this in adultery rather than becoming scumbags for committing adultery.

I could be misinterpreting of course, but if this is what she means I have to disagree for a few reasons.

Firstly Squid, for example, had been a good person for much of her life prior her A and since it. Nobody who did not know of her adultery would categorize her as a "scumbag". In fact a good few who DO know of it do not categorize her in that way.

I do not accept that WS or OPs are always a breed apart of particular propensity for evil. Harley hasn't found that in his decades of research and counseling. Yes there are serial adulterers / OPs who are wicked, but most I have seen , known or worked with are just people who did not protect their weaknesses.
What they did was evil and hurtful, but this came from their humanity IMO, not some innate "scumbagness".

Secondly, and perhaps most importantly, I need to believe that Squid is a good person who sinned and required forgiveness in order to recover a marriage with her. If I thought she was scum just waiting for another affair how could I recover ?

finally as a Christian I have to see the power of sin and redemption: I must look upon others as God looks upon me.

Why would any of us bother to recover a M with a scumbag ?

I also believe that anybody without active boundaries could fall into an affair. They just need their $LB filled.

All blessings

"... she seems to think that adulterers are scumbags who manifest this in adultery rather than becoming scumbags for committing adultery. "

I guess i do think this way...mainly because I look at things from my own viewpoint with my strong morals and boundaries.

I should not be talking anyway since the only affairs I was exposed to were from an old boyfriend who cheated on me. That is not the same thing as a marriage. As I remember he had weak boundaries and wanted a lot of admiration. He was not a total dirtbag but i looked at him as if he was AFTER I saw what he was capable of.

Are there waywards who need thier needs filled BOTH BY THE SPOUSE AND THE OTHER PERSON...you know...at the SAME TIME?

What about when the spouse was filling all those needs but the wayward NEEDED more needs filled, or fuller needfilling done by the other lover????

Is there such a thing as needing endless "needfilling" by whomever???? In the marriage or outside the marriage? Is this a selfish spouse or what?

They're called cake-eaters, Bubbles, and they're quite common.

As far as if it takes a scumbag to be wayward vs. being wayward makes you a scumbag, I think it could be either one or both. There truly are some scumbag waywards. I consider mine to be one and he's probably not even in the bottom half of those described on this board. There are also those that are decent people who do scumbaggy things. This is probably a requirement to ever become a true "F"WS. The gut-wrenching difficulty as a BS is trying to figure out if yours is the former or the later. You really WANT your WS to be a decent person who did something wrong, but by the time it's done the damage is the same and you can't tell anyway.

I think you could be right Tabby that by the time the damge is done it is hard to tell which one they are/were.

I was doing way more to meet my Ws needs as I percieved them to be than she was doing to meet mine. There is nothing I would not have done for her. It just wasn't enough.

I kind of disagree with Dr. Hs idea that anyone is capable of infidelity under the right conditions. If a person has a stong enough sense of committment, and integrity, they would just leave an irrepairable marriage instead of being unfaithful to it.

I'm sure I'll get some responses to that remark.

I think maybe as a BS people pray they couldn't ever let it happen to them. At any rate, why not just leave the marriage if you want to date? That seems to be the easiest way and the least hurtful to the marriage partner and the family. I know people who have told their spouses they just want out!! DUDE

I think it's a form of madness. Some people would never think of having an affair, then all of a sudden, someone comes along and starts meeting needs that person didn't even know they were lacking and... presto! The madness takes over.

Why don't they just leave first? Because the madness (we had an earlier discussion about addiction that I don't want to revisit) bends normal sense and right thinking.

There is a great line in Alcoholics Anonymous on page 30 that fits right into this scenario: "The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death."

Hey there, TTF,

I'll bite. In the case of many a BS, it is exactly that "strong sense of commitment" that keeps them from leaving. I am committed to my marriage and my family. I know what my WW was like for so many years, so I KEEP FIGHTING for recovery. The tricky part is fighting the good fight while LITTLE TO NONE of my emotional needs are being met. Eventually, someone can appear who is willing and able to meet those needs.

Now think of someone stranded in the desert who finally gets to drink from that flask full of cold water. It's wonderful, it's instant relief, it's immediate satisfaction.

TTF, THAT is called conditions that make anyone susceptible.

So what do I do? I stay thirsty......

TB

I think this is what I experienced when I talked to the guy from my divorce care group. He and his wife are separated and she started dating a guy about 8 months after their separation. She has been traveling with him so you know where they are in the relationship.

Her "still" Husband explained to me she was not totally happy in her new relationship, and they have been getting together and having sex. The husband was telling me he thought he was sticking it to the boyfriend by seeing his wife (which I am now thinking might be some sort of display of bravado). So I have since had coffee with this guy who told me he does not think he can meet his wife's needs, as he could never make her happy, but he really enjoys their times together on their "dates", and according to him that is one area they both seemed to enjoy in their relationship. He told me that his STBxW is not happy with the amount of sex she is getting with the new guy and she knows her STBxH has a high drive. And from what I can determine this guy seems to be OK with this arrangement for now as he is not dating anyone.

(My original post on this was - Just when you think you've seen it all)

I am not sure what really goes on in peoples heads emotionally and morally in a case like this but I guess some people can make a situation like this work for them.

In BC Canada where I live separation is the division of the property and the divorce is the filing of the legal document to dissolve the marriage one year after the separation. So in this guys case they are still legally married but they are just waiting for the one year time limit and they can file the papers themselves.

Theoretically, he is not wayward for sleeping w/ his own wife even though its nasty since she has a boyfriend.(or whatever) DUDE

This is what I say when I look at my XH's OW. I was SHOCKED when I saw her! She is so different from me. I am college educated, have a good career and am fairly attractive. She is a high school drop out, chain smokes cigars, drinks jumbo BUDS and paints houses for a living. [and screws married men] The first time I clapped eyes on her, I was standing behind this woman in line at a c-store on a Monday night. She was wearing painters clothes and was buying a JUMBO BUD. The cashier, who was familiar with her, said 'you are starting early this week!' She commented - and I will never forget this - "we are going to tie one on!" here she is, huntin' with my XH

Those deer are absolutely beautiful.

Dang, Mel... if that pic isn't a fake, those jumbo Buds must've been goggles for your xH to wear. Otherwise it couldn't have worked!

MrsW says she has "billy bob teef!" I thought I was going to wet myself laughing!

check this out

Quick! Who's got the Depends?

She caught on fast!

Yikes ML! I don't have any pics handy -- thank GOD!! Just picture icky long hair, clothes that have never seen an iron, and a deep and abiding interest in becoming an "indie" rock star. EWWWW.

I've seen your pic on the MB photo album, Mel. Your XH is a blind idiot!