I have a problem/concern. Dday is just over 4 months ago, A's were 21 years ago, as my signature shows.

Problem is I still have mind movies and triggers, which I know is normal and part of healing. We still can't talk of her A's in a healthy manner. She still isn't fully transparent as she can't 'remember' a lot from back then...may be true, not sure. More likely she just has them blacked out of her memory.

As you guys may know my wife went on a long planned vacation 3 weeks post Dday for one month. We didn't really have sex much for the 3 weeks post Dday, until she left. When she came back, 5 Nov, we started to re-connect and we had what I learned was HB, (hysterical bonding).

We really were doing HB like teenagers in-heat, some days were really crazy...!! During this time I still had mind movies and I cried often after making love, which I've talked about on here. I know its normal to feel like that.

Well for about maybe a week or 10 days, I am a 180 from HB'ing. IOW, I am having a 'hard' time 'getting excited' to make love, if you know what I mean?

Without getting too graphic I have had the morning 'wood' thing, sometimes I know for several hours. I do, 'help myself', (again, if you know what I mean), with my wife there and helping me, (I don't do it often, but when I do she is always part of it). I am able to stay at 'full attention' during 'helping myself'.

The problem is I am not able to stay at 'full attention' when its time to visit the place I used to love to visit more than any other place in the world....*wink*. I can be fully charged and ready to go, then its like a balloon losing all of its air.

For some stupid reason I always have her former sexual encounters in the back of my mind prior to us fooling around in bed. Then when I start to deflate I wonder, gee, I bet those guys never had this problem. Or even before we start to fool around I wonder to myself, whats going to happen when I 'deflate' if I start to think of the past?

I hope my post isn't getting too disjointed, I guess I am asking is will this ever pass? Is it normal to feel like I do? I mean I seem to compare myself to the guys she was with before, and wonder if I suck, or if I am this or that to them. I think I am having self defeating thoughts, but I feel insecure, inadequate, rejected, my self esteem is so low....man.

I am so *****edit***** up in my head....I am serious...I'm sure you guys have already figured that out though.

codtej, did you know the #1 reason for erectile dysfunction is stress? Look it up!

I can so relate, and in fact, lack of SF was one of the primary reasons WW left the M to have her affair (and "affaired down" to relate to another thread). When I looked back, I realized that a combination of my back problem, uncertainty with work combined with a lack of my own EN being met all conspired to result in a lack of arousal capability. After WW left, I went to the doc and was checked out. Normal PSA, normal testosterone levels. That left my back problem and stress as the key reasons for my apparent ED. I have discovered that I don't have a real problem in that regard, but there is still a certain amount of lack of desire. Of course, with WW gone, there isn't much to desire, anyway. I find I'm not ruled by my hormones or extremities.

The bottom line is that if it should come down to it, I don't have a problem going to a doctor and asking for a prescription for Vitamin V. That's a ways down the road in my case, so it's not a front-burner issue for me. In your case, however, I'd suggest that you first accept the problem -- regardless of its cause -- and then take steps to remedy it. SF is high on many people's EN lists, and if lack of it is causing problems in your M and/or your R, then please take the necessary actions to address it. That is one of the easiest solutions one can find on this board!

Ask her how you compared. I asked and my DH gave me a precious gift by telling me I was better and not just that, but also how I was better. You need to kill the deflating self-talk and imagine something that turns the corner for you, i.e, makes you feel like the chosen one and not the leftovers. Your WW can help you with that. My DH chose to stay with me and I used that to imagine the OW suffering by observing our happiness in an emotional and physical way.

Hope some of that helps.

'PB', not that I believe her but she SAYS I am 'bigger' and 'better' than the other guys, as they were just sex and we make love.

It's a lose lose question though, if she does say I am 'better' then I don't believe her, if she says I am 'not better' then that will bring obvious feelings.

How many "guys" are we talkin'bout?

I am the FWW in our case and we went through a similar phase. We went through HB, and I, being the high need partner, was thrilled (yes, it was selfish of me that close to D-Day, but I was definitely a long way from who I should have been back then). Then we had the same types of experiences you all are having. H just couldn't shake the questions and images and fears. Plus he was still devastated that I had done such a thing. We talked about it, and I just kind of backed off and let him take the lead. Sometimes we would be in the midst of being together and he would just say he couldn't continue. I think this is perfectly normal. You have been through a trauma; your W had sex with someone else. Of course it will affect your sex life for awhile.

My H ended up needing to know more details. He needed to know what OM and I did and didn't do. It was hard, but he needed to know. I ended up writing it down for him, he read it, he asked some questions, and then he tossed the paper. It helped him to know more. If you two are like we were, this DID eventually pass.

I know your wife's A's were a long time ago, but it is hard for me to believe that she could not remember what went on, even if she can't remember dates and times. Maybe if you had more details it would help? I know everyone is different about that. I am not sure about asking if you were better or worse. It's almost like comparing apples and oranges. Yes, when one is wayward, there is an "exciting" forbidden aspect to the sex, but can that really compare to the real thing with the person you committed your life to? It's like comparing baloney to steak.

Pepperband's idea of taking "the act" off the table and finding other physically intimate ways to connect is a great one. Chemically speaking, the big "O" can still connect two people even outside that one act. Experiencing those endorphines while connected in some way with another person still enhances that bond.

If you are like my H, once the M gets stronger and stronger, as time passes, and your W continues to do the work she needs to do, you may very well find that this problem is no longer a problem at all. It's only been 4 months. The longer recovery lasts, the better things get.

Codtej, a couple of thoughts, with my apologies in advance for being random:

I can understand where you're at. My wife had that insecurity of wondering whether she was "better" than my OW, and her sense of disappointment that things she'd shared with me were no longer "exclusive" to her. The images & just wondering what OW & I must've done, etc. -- yeah, I put her through that whole rotten hell that you're in.

First of all, don't go assuming that these other guys were in peak form. During my A, I actually was so exhausted from the stress of living a double life that I wasn't always.

And man, if you were doing HB for 2 months, maybe exhaustion is part of it, too. That plus junky holiday food...

If it helps any, I think the cultural perception that "affair sex" is hotter than married sex, is off-target. It's not the S itself, it's the context that can make it temporarily seem better.

Objectively, my OW wasn't "better" than my wife. Although OW was what most people would consider pretty, she wasn't more so than my wife. My wife had a more feminine body & wasn't flat-chested the way OW was. OW wasn't any more creative (unless one considers going outside of marriage as "creative"). I didn't really "do" anything during my A with OW that my W & I hadn't done together. (Look, there's only so many ways to skin a cat, or choke a chicken, or whatever metaphor you want to use, LOL.) In some specific ways, OW even didn't know what she was doing as well as my wife did. Really. And in my case, although this may not be true for everyone, there were no ways in which OW was better, speaking in terms of particular techniques, etc.

But as I told my wife several months after my A. when we were discussing this after a particularly wrenching session with our MC, the areas where OW had a temporary advantage was in her eagerness & level of interest during the A., and in the communication that we had during the A. Frequency was also an issue, and for a few weeks, OW pulled ahead in that category. But these things aren't about the acts, but rather, they're contextual, i.e., they're about the context in which the acts occurred. In the temporary context of my A., OW & I were sharing (talking about) our thoughts & feelings, we were paying attention to each other's every word, we were valuing the limited time we had available to spend with each other. While SF was a focus of my A once it turned physical about halfway through, it really, honestly wasn't just about the SF. (If that'd been the case, I could've rented somebody, but even in the worst depths of my A, the thought of that would've made me puke then, as it does now. Just as the thought of my A does now.)

ANYWAY the good news is, the contextual stuff isn't anything that an OP has an exclusive on. The thing that makes S mind-blowing (or not) is the context that both partners help to create. For you & your W, this means spending plenty of 1-on-1 time just conversing, communicating, hanging on your wife's words; complimenting her & meaning it, and building up the feeling of closeness whenever you can, even when you've got your clothes on. (Although soapy-in-the-shower like someone suggested can't be bad, either.)

I'd never thought of the Harley 4 rules (time, honesty, protection, care) as being SF advice, but they actually are: If you spend time with her, giving her your full attention, closness can happen. If you're honest with one another, communication happens & deepens. If you show you care for her in many ways, she'll probably be more eager for you (and eagerness can make a huge difference in making her less passive); and if you protect each other's feelings, you'll each feel more confident. And all of that stuff goes into making S better.

And look... from an athletic standpoint, there ain't many of us who are in are 40s what we were in our 20s. I'm just sayin'. Everyone's entitled to a little off-season. Take 15 days on the Disabled List, come back stronger -- give yourself a lil' break, for cryin' out loud.

codtej,

My FWW and I went thru some of the same things.

D-day was a confession out of the blue two weeks to the day after I'd had hip replacement surgery. My reaction to all this surprised the he77 out of me. After about an hour of talk, I told her I wanted her, right then. At the time, we had a waterbed, which made things mechanically impossible. (I had been sleeping alone in a regular bed after coming home post-surgery.) We did something else which would qualify as humiliation for her, at her suggestion. (She didn't remember that part when we talked about d-day about six months later. She said, yuck.)

Doctors say you're supposed to wait six weeks before resuming activities. Forget that. The next day we went out of town, got a motel room, and acted like bunnies. Okay, older bunnies, one of whom had a bad hind leg, but it was hysterical bonding nonetheless.

At that point, the thought of what they had done drove me. It was forceful (as much as I could make it with one hip) in an effort to reclaim what was rightfully mind. And I will tell you that she enjoyed it loudly for the next 2-3 months (well, as long as we had the house to ourselves).

Here's the extra fillip to this -- for the past couple of years, I'd been having ED issues. I was diagnosed with severe apnea (93 times/hour!), and that helped created blood pressure issues. Combine the BP meds and their affect on my ability to rise to the occasion with that sexy C-PAP facemask that makes farting noises when it's not fitted exactly right, and you have SF disasters.

We tried vitamin V -- I got headaches and had weird side effects. Vitamin C didn't do that, but both made SF uncomfortable for her. It turned into the Washington Monument, and took forever because of decreased sensitivity. Disaster ensues.

Naturally, when I learn of the A, I want to know all kinds of things, including that size and talent were on my side all the way. She told me the A really wasn't about the sex (whatever). But about four months in, she broke down crying during one of our discussions where the story changed. Turns out he was having ED issues through the whole A, and she felt like she was just fat and ugly and no good in the sack and all that. (Her boyfriend before me way back in the day actually told her the same type of crap. And she believed it!)

I started laughing when she said that. I told her I was laughing at him, not her, and that my issues were medically based and had nothing to do with her attractiveness. They had to do with him being a POS slimeball (I used other words that would constitute a TOS violation here). I then went and proved it, to our mutual enjoyment.

But about a month after that, I started having the same problem you're having now -- them mind movies. When that happens, it's devastating to her. I've found that if I wait an extra day, it's less likely to happen. Hydraulic pressure if you will....

It's been 13 months since D-day, but only about six since full and complete disclosure of everything so I'm not sure of what timetable I'm on. But things have been getting better, with patience on both sides.

Hang tough.

co,

My H and I had the HB thing afterwards, too. I just wanted to somehow prove to him that I was as good as OW I think. I was crazy in my head, believing at that point that his last memory of SF would be of her (my H had been diagnosed with prostate cancer quite shortly after d-day, and the surgery was coming up). So I worked hard to try to erase her from his mind.

He claims this worked.

I think he lies about it, but maybe this is a nice kind of lie. He lies to protect our relationship and my feelings. I wish he didn't, but there it is. I can't control it, and he would not change it no matter what, because it is who he is.

I worry about it because the OW in my case has been with countless men, and has lots of experience. I don't.

So I am pretty sure that my limited knowledge in the SF field would pale in comparison to hers.




I think if I were a man, I would have the same problem you have. Instead, I have difficulty with .... another issue. Anyway, at first I was fine, in the HB phase, and now, nothing at the "end", if you understand me.

He tries, I try, and it ends up empty for me.


I also feel like I can't overcome this hurdle. I'm four years out from d-day, and this started about five or six months ago.

Cannot figure it out. But there are those feelings, so I figure that must be it. It takes some talking about, and some work. You have to tell your wife about this - openly. She has to understand it, and she has to know about this area of damage to your psyche.

For me, I think I know what it might take for me to overcome this hurdle. I have work to do and a path to walk. I don't like it, but I will do it anyway. Just one more time. I hate having to recover old ground!

SB

I wonder . . . can an EA have the same effect?

In my case, I'm the BH, and WW (exWW?) and I are in R. The EA is over, but she's still a bit foggy and still in withdrawal.

However, without taking up too much time (and trying not to hijack the thread), we have realized that the problems with our M resulted from both of us neglecting the others ENs, with SF being a big problem for me. She had no interest, and it only happened when I initiated it.

During the EA she of course had no interest and quite honestly neither did I. Even though there was no chance of a PA (distance issue), it still bothered me that perhaps she would fantasize about OM if we did anything.

Now, however, I think some SF would help us to grow closer together. We have made great progress, and are even affectionate with each other. She still has no interest in SF though. Is there some sort of issue on her part that needs to be overcome?

I am anxious, in a way, to get over this 'hump' (no pun intended) to see how it will be. Will I have a problem? Will it end up empty for her?

I am still Plan A'ing like crazy and like I said we're making progress. I have not pushed for SF for fear that it will be a LB (how's that for a paradox) and we will regress.

What do y'all think?

Sounds VERY familiar. I'm pretty sure that my FWW has been truthful "in her own way" about some aspects of her PA with the OM (read: left out components and allowed my to draw my own, most likely erroneous conclusions about others). I still think about it from time to time.



This is quite interesting. Our SF-life basically dried up around the same time out from D-Day. Though we still have SF, it's almost like once a month now, and nowhere near the intensity it used to be. I'm losing interest the whole SF thing with her and she continuously reminds me that it's not one of her main interests.

Thanks for the well thought out, helpful replies, they really helped me and my wife, as she read them as well.

It is comforting to know I am not the only one and there is light at the end of the tunnel, (not sure how long the tunnel is though).

I will say we were intimate last night and the same thing, we do have other 'things' we use often, and most especially oral. She swares she is SF with what we are doing and knows the situation will pass, eventually.

What really has wondering WTF is when she was done she helped me, 'help myself' and there was no issue there, (full attention, so problme)....took 10 to 15 minutes until completion. Is it because that is a direct stimulation and its different than having sexual intercourse with your spouse? Or maybe its because I am able to concentrate differently when 'helping myself', I do know my thoughts are different for some reason.

I dunno. We are getting ready for church, thanks for all of your help everyone.

Yeah, and you've also stated in your thread about your tendency to be impatient. So, slow down my good friend. Most of the posters in this thread are months away from d-day. You're not there yet, Linus; you have a ways to go. Good to be looking ahead but you still have some Plan A'ing to do, am I right?

I hope I'm not out of line, but those are my thoughts to you.

Opt

Here's a fun exercise my wife and I tried a little while back. Contained within a spoiler box so that those who don't want to read anything explicit can avoid it...


Just a few thoughts. Please pardon my recent spate of grown-up posts... it seems like sexual issues are more common on the forum lately.

You're not out of line at all, opt. This is why I'm here. I need to be reminded of where I am in the recovery stage once in a while because I'm so impatient. Thanks! Hope you are doing well.

I think that good SF requires each partner to feel comfortable being vulnerable. It is hard for me to imagine feeling comfortable being vulnerable with someone that has cheated on me and hurt me so badly.
Bottom line, I think what you are going through is very normal and entirely psychological. I think you are a healthy guy who has been bludgeoned by your wife's cheating. It may take a very long time, if it happens at all, to trust her again in this area. She is entirely responsible for this happening.

This above is an example of the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. Many people have good SF without feeling vulnerable. There are many different styles of boats that perform their various functions; they float in the same ocean, yet the experiences vary radically.


Agree.



I disagree. The cheating, of course, has helped create the problem. But individual hormonal imbalances can also largely be to blame, in particular depression is known to radically lower testosterone (or radically lowered testosterone causes depression, it's complicated).

But a man must own whatever the cause of the problem is, and figure out how to address it regardless of the cause. Typically, for a man, erectile dsyfunction in the bedroom is corrected with some combination of testosterone therapy, counseling, and ED meds. However, what may be needed is a realignment of sexual and personality expectations to manage an "electric fence" personality, among other things:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5066_qa.html

I'm no therapist. My wife is training to be one. But even as a layman who experienced brief difficulty performing after my wife's affair, solutions to the loss of an erection abound, from the chemical to the therapeutic to the environmental... you merely need to look for them. But it's the man who has to fix this. Despite his wife's abuses as a possible cause, she can't fix it whether she broke it or not, and it's certain she's not the sole cause of the erectile dysfunction.

'Zelmo', I think you're right, even with your last sentence. The last poster who said I am responsible for correcting my problem is partially right, but if my wife didn't have those A's I wouldn't be in the situation I am in now. Sure I am not 20 any more, sure on occasion I would not be in the mood, but man, it was nothing even close to this.

I know I have to dig myself out of this, somehow.

Coming to grips with her A's is, hand down, the most difficult thing I've ever had to do in my life. Some days I feel, 'yes I can do this', then the next day I am back to being sad. I will say the sad days are not the majority any longer.

She still SAYS she wants to help me deal with her A's and to talk to her, openly about them. But its back to the same thing, she SAYS she wants me to, but when I do she always pushes back, and says stuff like 'how long ago did it happen'? and how I am not moving forward, etc.

I do understand she supposedly slept with those 5 guys in 1988. She knew the truth and what happened. She had the opportunity to deal with them in her own way. Was was able to process it all. I was not given that chance, I was second guessing, and wondering for those years. I was lied to for those 21 years. Now its my turn to deal with her 5 A's and she is not able to help me....I know I will never be healed in a healthy way, never.

Why you need therapy for it. Start with the Harleys.