BCBoy,

First of all let me say how sorry I am to hear what you are going through...been there myself so I truly do KNOW.

Yes, it is astoundingly common for a (previously/seemingly) upright, devoted, honorable husband/wife to "affair-down"--often WAAAAYYY down--when they become wayward. So often they seem to become addicted to someone that, on so many levels, seems so far 'beneath' the WS, the BS, and the kind of person they would ever have considered to a suitable romantic partner beforehand. Been there, too...I'll spare you the sordid details.

I struggled with this for a long time as well. After doing a lot of reading, research, and observation, I came to learn a key fact that is hard to accept at first but vitally important for any BS to understand.

The affair is not really a reflection of the BS being 'bad' or the infidelity-partner being 'better'. The affair is primarily about the character flaws & deficiencies of the WS.

These can include:
1) Insecurity & neediness
2) Poor self-esteem and boundaries
3) Lack of introspection & frequent blameshifting onto others
4) Prior unresolved emotional baggage
5) Dependency & co-dependency
6) Poor communication skills/expectation of clairvoyance from partners
7) Immature romanticization (confusing 'feelings' for love -- love is ACTION, not emotion)

Dr. Frank Pittman in Private Lies: Infidelity and the Betrayal of Intimacy writes:

Surely the craziest and most destructive form of infidelity is the temporary insanity of falling in love. You do this, not when you meet somebody wonderful (wonderful people don't screw around with married people) but when you are going through a crisis in your own life, can't continue living your life, and aren't quite ready for suicide yet. An affair with someone grossly inappropriate�someone decades younger or older, someone dependent or dominating, someone with problems even bigger than your own�is so crazily stimulating that it's like a drug that can lift you out of your depression and enable you to feel things again. Of course, between moments of ecstasy, you are more depressed, increasingly alone and alienated in your life, and increasingly hooked on the affair partner. Ideal romance partners are damsels or "dumsels" in distress, people without a life but with a lot of problems, people with bad reality testing and little concern with understanding reality better.

People are most likely to get into these romantic affairs at the turning points of life: when their parents die or their children grow up; when they suffer health crises or are under pressure to give up an addiction; when they achieve an unexpected level of job success or job failure; or when their first child is born�any situation in which they must face a lot of reality and grow up. The better the marriage, the saner and more sensible the spouse, the more alienated the romantic is likely to feel. Romantic affairs happen in good marriages even more often than in bad ones.

I feel that most WSs, especially those that "affair-way-down" with obvious losers/criminals/philanderers/users/sociopaths/etc., are such needy, insecure, and self-unaware people that they will latch onto and revel in attention/validation from any source, no matter how clearly innappropriate the source may be, when they are sufficiently vulnerable or "feeling lonely/down". All too often, the OP who cheat with them are frequently predatory/opportunistic types -- adept at recognizing mentally-susceptible individuals and skilled at "turning on the charm" to get what they want (usually sex, money, diversion, & conquest).

Sadly, the FOG can indeed last a long time. The "honeymoon phase" typically lasts 2-3 years and it can take quite a bit of time after that for 'rock bottom' to truly set in (this is if the affair-partners stay together--which they may if they "need" each other sufficiently). No question, the best chance to break an affair is early on (with exposure) before too much is emotionally & socially invested in it by the WS. No question, in general a WW-affair is MORE DIFFICULT to break that a WH-affair. I'm sorry, but if you are not prepared for possibly a long waiting game, you have every right to consider divorce to mentally and legally be freed from her. Most MB vets will advise you to be patient. The Harleys will advise you to "wait 2 years" in Plan B/NC. (I will tell you, from personal experience, if you have not done or had the opportunity to do, a solid Plan A beforehand, that Plan B is a very tough and less-effective proposition.)

It is a decision only you can make. Best wishes in whatever path you choose.

Bookmarked. This needs to be repeated for many of the newcomers arriving here wondering, "WTF...?"

SDCW man
What a powerful and insightful post. I am glad to see you have turned your pain and turmoil into a reflective and thoughtful post that will inevitably help those that venture here to read and learn.

Thanks

BCBoy

Bob,

True, we all have fallen short and none of us are without sin. One does not have to be intrinsically a "sleazeball" to do sleazy things (esp. when driven by powerfully addictive emotions). ALL WSs (and single OPs who knowingly affair with a married person) have behaved sleazily whether or not they are normally of higher moral fiber.

The only difference between someone who IS trashy and someone who merely BEHAVED trashily is how they react after the fact at some point. Do they recognize it and repent? Or do they continue, deny, and repeat indefinitely? Remember, after dismissing the hypocritical would-be executioners, Jesus walked up the terrifed adulteress and sternly warned her: "Now, go...and sin no more!"


I agree...of course it is a lie! You are either married or un-married. There is no in-between. Hypothetical here: If someone you might want to date tells you that "I am separated and just waiting for the paperwork", ask them to provide you with their stbx spouse's number so you can confirm that it is "ok" to date them. I'll bet that 95 times out of 100, you will find out the story is not what you were led to believe.

I've been wanting to read this thread from the start - only just had time to catch up.

So now I am thinking it through.... with the predator scenario are both spouses affairing down?

I guess that comes back to Bobs comments about sinners and some sins have much worse implications?

Maybe.... so although I affaired down - a lot lot less educated, uninterested in health, 17 years older, rubbish job, weeny house, interesting body odour (yuk),

He affaired down because I was emotionally loony, I didn't have the maturity of his wife, I wasn't earning as much (although had the capacity to earn an awful lot more), I had weaker boundaries than his W. My H says he certainly affaired way up.


Actually I like what ccbis said (I hope I got that right without referring back) - that affair partners are illogical - and not just because they are aari partners - my pairing up would certainly have been illogical if both of us had been single.

I'm quite happy with the biblical/ moral explanation of afaring down too.

Interesting thread BCboy - causing some introspection

I guess, everyone has an element of correctness in their thoughts - affairing up or down is just a matter of perspective and is best analysed by a WS to help them unravel where they went wrong and maybe to a BS to provide comfort.

This bears repeating. Excellent post, SDCW_man.


I think this is a good assessment for a majority of As/WSs. An A is NOT about the BS. I remember reading on several different occasions here where someone summed it up as: your WS was broken long before the A. They may have been tiny cracks at first, they may not. The point is, it's about the problems w/ the WS. It is rarely a reflection or value judgment of the BS.

I find this interesting. After reading this I am wondering what was the impetus for you to proceed? Was he pursuing you vigorously? With this description it surprises me an affair could be incubated.

Is it the forbidden fruit aspect that causes the excitement and apparent lack of judgment? Because what you describe seems to defy logic. There has to be something else that is very strong to overcome what is by your description as unappealing.

I find it interesting to find out what the tipping point is for someone to throw all caution to the wind and engage in an act that changes the course of a persons life.

Thnx for that post SDCW_man. So true, so many times, so often

This topic is a hard one for me.

The OW was a blonde, blue-eyed model for a local small agency.

That first week in recovery, I asked FWH what she did for a living. When he said she was a part-time model, I fell apart. I remember thinking, how in the *** can I ever compete with that. I consider myself attractive, but geez, no, not model material.

I spent a year searching online to find her pictures. I needed to know what she looked like in case she ever reared her nasty presence in my life unexpectedly.

One night I finally found her pictures online at the modeling agency site. What a gut-wrenching feeling to stare at her face and know that is what my husband stared at. Reaching a very low point and sobbing, I emailed my dear friend MelodyLane and sent her the link to OW's picture. My sweet friend emailed me back that FWH DID TO affair down because OW's heart was black and she could never compete with me. {{{{Mel}}}} That meant so much to me.

At that time, FWH's heart was black, too; and he'll tell you that himself. Whether OW's heart has always been black, I don't know. But she was wicked during the A and did very wicked things to steal my husband and my children's father.

I remember what it felt like pre-affair when H would tell me I was so beautiful to him. I really, really, really believed him. I miss that feeling; not sure if it will ever return.

For me, the OM was a MARRIED short, fat, balding middle aged Californian of "spanish" descent that was the XW's supervisor with two daughters and on top of it all serial cheater.

He seduced her with a shower of gifts, lunches and everything else n the company credit card, he had went so far as to buy her a multi-thousand dollar diamond ring (which I destroyed with a grindstone) before he got busted and fired. Not even that stopped him as he got another job and was doing the same thing D-Day.

He was just in it for the pursuit of snatch and to destroy families. As soon as I gave his wife the evidence, he dumped XW.

Destroyed with a grindstone? Yikes!

Pariah, you'd make a good assassin, with all this anger...

But the anger has to be tempered so that it can lie in wait until the perfect opportunity arises.

admiration, recreational companionship - lots of. I spent many more hours of time with him than H.

It started with him giving extra coaching to me on my trumpet - our one a week lesson (plus rehersal once a week) turned into a 3/4x week lesson, and built up to hours of phone conversations and iming.

My H and I had slipped deeply into an abusive language and he seemed jealous of our son - I just didn't like him. I was too frightened to talk to him about it.

I could get over the yuk most days because I was so sesperate for the admiration (and company and afection)


My H and I now know how to make the most of our time with each other and he has taken angerman. classes. We communicate again.

This topic comes up so often here and I find it sooo sad that us BS's spend any time comparing ourselves to nasty corrupt people.

Both partners involved in an A affair down. Each must be broken to engage in a behaviour that will cause their familes such devastation.

Some are temorarily broken.

Some are permanently broken.

I love my FWH, and I would say he is an attractive man but at the time of his A, he was the most unattractive person to be around. It wasn't just me that thought that either. His family and friends when they were told of the A all said that they had seen a negative change in him in the weeks leading up to D-Day, and that he had somehow changed from a lovely and likeable man to someone quite thoughtless and offhand.

The OW in our case had also been a model (albeit an unsuccessful one), maybe she just made it up. She would qualify as attractive. BUT she is the ugliest person I have ever had the misfortune to come across in my life. As SMB said, the OW in my sitch also had a heart as black as coal.

What she did to my family she has done to several other families before. It was all a game to her. People who know her have no doubt that she will do this again. She is a permanently broken person and my H affaired down when he had his dirty A with her.

My H was temporarily broken and she affaired down when she had her A with him.

Thank God, he is now back to being a man of integrity, and a man that I can call truly attractive again.

But folks in affairs do not use a fair yardstick when assessing their A partner. For example they all lie, and IME virtually everybody involved in A's know that their OP is lying but it is not held against them.

Interestingly in reading this thread I want OM dead for the first time in several years ! LOL !

I'll toss my hat in the ring to say that a lot of times when a woman "affairs down" with another man, that other man has something important going for him. It's "Alpha Male-ness".

A lot of betrayed spouses -- including me -- on here were horrible weenies prior to the affair. We wouldn't stick up for ourselves or our marriage, and I bet dimes to donuts that most of us exuded "Beta Male-ness".

Learning to stick up for yourself and others, lead and expect others to follow, display body language that says you are in control and unafraid... these are all desirable characteristics. And in the words of my former wayward wife, "I didn't think you would care or do anything. But then you fought for our marriage, and that helped me see who I needed to be with."

Yep. I fought like hell and showed I was more Alpha than the other man. He was overweight, unemployed, a chronic liar, and lived in a tiny shack in the mountains of California. Yet when he spoke, he was assertive, charismatic, and persuasive. Lucky for me the man had no clue about how to treat women well, control his anger, or be honest with anybody... it was his repeated lies and angry outbursts that were part of what got through to my wife that "hey! This is not a good man to be with!"

My two cents. Women often "affair down"... but that downward guy is often more assertive and manly than their husbands.

Ah yes, the fence.

I think I said this on another thread but, Looks are not everything...everyone is attracted to something different in a person.

I have known men and women who when I first met them I thought they were gorgeous, but then when I got to know their personality (stuck up, sooo into themselves, thought they were Gods gift to the Opposite sex, spent their day lookin at themselves in the mirror, put other people down...Etc.) It literally changed their looks to me and I just couldnt see past their attitude to see their beauty anymore...

And havent you met someone that you thought was okay lookin but once you got to know their personality (thoughtful, confident not stuck up, nice, friendly, funny, can see the good in everyone...Etc.) they got more attractive to you...I have known people like this....

Personality is a main factor in determining looks once you get to know a person on the inside...whats inside radiates ouside, truly....

Like everyone has said (I have a feeling my H OW is gorgeous, Havent had the pleasure of seeing her yet) the OP may look good in passing but ugliness on the inside radiates to the outside...I have witnessed it throughout my lifetime, so for me I know it is true....

So without even meeting you guys, Pep and SMB, I know you guys are beautiful...on the inside and the outside.