This is your end of dealing with this. Of course you want to give up. You need to give up the fantasy of the past. This issue is between God and you first, then if your WW is up to the challenge maybe she can join you.

BB4U has a good point, first of all most ppl want you two to be OK and then the problem goes away for them. Also that WW should be acting responsible in every way as a grown up. Whatever sickness of her mind is HER responsibilty to deal with God about.

Did you know that adultery is the only reason God will accept for divorce? Its not a mandate. Obviuosly God knew how hard it is on us for someone to betray us after swearing to HIm that they wouldn't. The one we marry is supposed to be the one human being on this earth we trust with our lives.
You can divorce her without guilt if you want. Nobody can or should get between what you do to keep yourself healthy emotionally. You are free to do whatever you choose and God lets us know what the consequences will be. Your WW didn't pay very good attention to that did she? It seems that you are and you are trying to forgive. Thats good but it will never be the way you once wanted it to be. Can you separate the two? I don't know but you will have to depend on God for your expectations until either she lives up to her end again and earns her way back.

The pain of a pyhsical A is so personnally painful it will never be forgotten. When your WW brought your marriage into this disgusting behavior she dragged you and your children into the filth too. You need to own what you do as she needs to own what she does/did.
Can you move on in the marriage? Thats what this site is all about. Read on, get therapy and stay open to God through these people and through DR Harley. In the end do what God leads you to do. He knows your heart better than anyone. Don't try to do God any favors, let him lead you. Let his law be what you lean upon. "Lean not unto your own understanding" ring a bell?

If you stand for truth and light you will be doing the best you can be expected from anyone including your marriage and family, children.
"Trust God for the consequences of your obediance" is something that comes to mind.

SIO,
But what about forgiveness? If I have been forgiven of so much am I not expected to forgive others even if they offended me?
Isn't the greatest expression of love is to love someone when they don't deserve it?
I know God hates divorce even if someone has an A and He would want me to stay in this if I am not hard hearted. I am trying my darnest not to be hard hearted and forgive and move forward.
I know my faith has taken a huge hit in all this. I don't want to go to church anymore, talk to anybody (except for MB & MC's of course). I feel alone in going through this becasue it is expected for me to be strong and get over it since she has repented and changed her ways. i am emotionally and spiritually empty becasue of all this. Thankfully I am in very good physcial condition as as I know.

BB4U has a good point, first of all most ppl want you two to be OK and then the problem goes away for them.
I never thought about this...sure makes alot of sense. Wish I could say screw everybody and get away and do what's best for me.

You can.

BB4U,

Before the A she was very difficult to be around. Kind of walked on eggshells when she was angry or upset. After awhile I just gave up and hoped and prayed she matured.
She's not a money grubber and until this past year I was the only one working.

Now my WW is open and honest and she has alot of people that is investing in her ife now and keeping her accountable which is great becasue this is something I wanted from the very begenning of the marriage to help her with some of her immuturity.

PM, But I know that's not the right thing. I'll just be reacting to hurt and in turn hurting everyone who are innocently involved .

Crusade,

You asked

You can love her and still divorce. You can forgive her and still divorce. Here is something that I think you and for sure your W NEVER understood about marriage. Marriage is NOT about feelings it is about actions. The word love is actually a verb. Meaning to love someone means to ACT LOVING TOWARD THEM. You can act with care and love and still not be married to her. You, for your own sake, forgive her eventually no matter what you decide to do about this marriage.

Of course people want the family to stay together. If ever you found a group that wants this, you have found it here. This is a "marriage builders" site after all, and most of us post and try to help preserve the marriage. But, what this site is NOT is a Marriage at all costs, site. Neither is your marriage. As has been pointed out, even God allows divorce in the case of adultery. You have every reason to divorce. And maybe it will come to that.

I know the film running in your head is getting to you. However, you have said NOTHING about the really important stuff. Frankly, I don't care if the film is there or not, you are NOT focusing on the important stuff and you are not even mentioning it here.

So let me kick you in the tush, and get you focusing on the stuff that SHOULD determine whether or not you remain married.

1. Does she have a plan to protect you, the marriage, and her?

2. Has she identified why she allowed her boundaries to be overrun, or if she even had boundaries?

3. HERE is a Biggie, does she know what love is? If so is she showing that she knows and is being loving toward you?

4. Are you willing to be loving toward her?

5. What are your plans for the marriage heading forward?
Start with what would be a good marriage for you. Then decide what your boundaries are. Then decide how you would accomplish making your marriage a good one.

6. Are you even willing to try this? If so why? If not, why not? She had an affair is really NOT a good reason. I know that sounds odd, but dramatic events are opportunties to change. Are either of you willing to change?

7. Have either of you read, discussed, and come to understand what is on this site? If not why not? IF so, what is your understanding, what is her understanding? Harley did not invent recovering marriage, but he organized and simplified the approach so taht everyone can use it.

8. What are your life goals. Can your W help you achieve them? Is she willing to help you achieve them? Is she a net plus or minus in your life?

Crusade, Harley lists two policies that he thinks are required for a good marriage: the policy of "radical honesty" and the policy of joint agreement, POJA. You cannot even begin to accomplish a recovered marriage without these two policies being used by both of you. HOWEVER, the policy of "radical honesty" first and foremost MUST be used by you on yourself.

You need to be very very honest in your assessment of yourself, and the 8 items I have listed. There are more things for you to consider but YOU must address these items...HONESTLY.

Are you seeing anything in what I have written about the film playing in your head? No you are not. The film will stay or go as time goes on. Whether you remain in this marriage and rebuild it or leave it, depends on OTHER issues. Address those other issues, the film will take care of itself.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Crusade,
I think you would benefit a lot from this website..www.rejoiceministries.com
Please read everything there, it will help you a lot

Angie

Crusade,
JL has written an excellent post to you.

Your description about forgiveness translates to loving your wife unconditionally. The above quote is from the Newsletter Forum article "When to call it quits." I encourage you to read the articles in the Newsletter Forum on uncontional love and when to call it quits.

Gg

c7
When BH's come here it usually is close to D day or they suspect there W is having an affair.

They are told to wait at least six months before they make any important decision such as divorce or recovery. They need the time to process what has happened.

Why not wait six months from the time you have started posting on MB before you make any important decisions.

JLs post was right on. I also would take some time now to do those assessments.

About forgivness, Many people choose to forgive murderers who have taken the life of their loved ones, it doesn't translate into the murderers to move in with them and be their partner for life. They forgive to remove the bitterness from their own heart.

I pray that you can repair your marriage together. Keep reading and praying.

Hi Crusade:

Your story caught my eye. I divorced my cheating wife and she did the same things your wife did. Had sex with the OM in my home. I did not see them face to face but I did get video of them having sex in my bed. I got recordings of them emails phone calls. I have been there and I know how it hurts.

I just wanted to point out a couple of things from your post.


So your wife was difficult to be around. You had to walk on eggshells and she was angry all the time or upset?? Well that was my XW and I would describe her exactly the same. Wanting to stay at home but always angry. Never happy with what I had done for her.

Can you imagine if you decided to not work and your wife had to go outside the home and work to support you. Then you decided to bang women in her bed and kids room. And to top it off you were walking around the house angry and upset with her. I would guess your wife would realize her life is a living hell. Well guess what my friend that is what your life is a living hell.

Now I understand why you feel the way you do. You had a angry upset wife who got to stay home and she repaid you by being angry and upset and having sex with someone in your own home. I guess I would have to say that she did have a lot of anger toward you. For me personaly having my wife bang a guy in my bed was the worse thing she could have done to me.

So if you have a wife that walks around the home and she is angry and upset and unhappy you probably don't feel good about your love for her when she is acting like that. Now add to that she is bumping uglies with another guy in your home and now I know why you feel trapped. I was the same way until I dumped my wife and got my life back.

Now I am not telling you what to do but I knew I could and would not forgive what she did to me. I have been where you are and I know how sad life is feeling like that.


Why do I think that your wifes main motivation is to keep you together so no one finds out about what she did. If she treated you so poorly before she did this it would seem the only thing keeping the marriage together is her shame that other people would find out what she did to you.

I guess what I am saying is if she was a mad angry woman before and then she did this well now I understand your pain. I know my XW I think she feared more than anything people finding out what she did to me. My XW was so afraid that I was going to tell everyone and well I did do that and at the time I think that was her biggest fear.

Good luck to you and If you can forgive I wish you the best. I was able to forgive my XW but only after I divorced her and hurt her and left her in severe pain. After the way she treated me I was not going to let her treat me like that and have no consequences. And I can tell you that life can be better after the shock is gone. My life is much happier than it was for years with a angry person. I hope it works out for you no matter what you do!!

After posting what I wrote that does not mean you cannot save your marriage. It will take a lot of hard work but some people are able to get there. Sadly the best most people do is come to terms with what happened and accept it and try and move on. I hope you are able to not only survive but thrive.

IHE, WOW..Right there with your story.
Did you work on trying to restore your marriage? Did she change her ways after you caught her?

JL,

A lot to answer and honestly I don't have answers for most of them.
I really got stumpmed on #5. I don't know what a good marriage is any more. I had great examples around before I got married and now not so much. Dang I am so screwed up that I can't see clearly anymore.
Thanks so much for these questions it's helping me to focus on going foward..

Crusade,

You had good examples, what were they? What would make a good marriage in your mind. How would a good marriage work? How would you handle things differently than you have in the past? What would you expect of a good W that you have not expected or gotten in the past?

You need a vision Crusade, then you can make a plan, then you make decisions. Order is important.

God Bless,

JL

>>You need a vision Crusade, then you can make a plan, then you make decisions. Order is important.<<<

Agreed

Your imagination and vision is impaired now. I am reminded that "Without a vision the people perish" from the old testament. People are falible, God isn't, we need to take off the fig leaf and jump right in.

Over the New Year weekend my WW and kids went to visit some friends 3 hours away. On our way there I was open with her and told her the issues that I was having and finally got her to tell me the reasons of why she did what she did instead of the "I don't know" answers.

On our way back we talked some more and I finally realized that I throughout our whole relationship I never trusted 100% to lay down all of myself to her. She was very immature and got very angry when she didn't get her way so I started to pull back to protect my heart and rarely allowed to share what really bothered me. I built an emotional wall. Don't get me wrong I did the loving things, dinners, outing, vacations, I love you's, SF but fear of getting hurt kept me shut down emotionally. I also asked her to be honest with me to tell me if I asked much of her and my WW said no and realized that I was very self sufficient. I never asked her to cook, clean, laundry, etc, etc because I didn't want to burden her but somehow she was still unhappy.

Then the A happened and my heart is in a deeper chamber. I am very compassionate and act on this and I told my WW that I feel bad for her and even feel bad for the OM, I guess that's why I don't feel any anger toward my WW. I really do feel that both WW and OM took advantage of my compassion and my WW still does.

I told my WW that I need to get whole before trying to R this marriage. I need to have joy and happiness myself before I can offer anything to this M. How can I help other's when I am broken and bleeding all over? I lost my identity, my passion, my self respect, my joy and working on getting whole. I really don't if the M will work or not but I want to be well again and be able to fully trust other's with my whole life without the fear of getting hurt.

Crusade,
How do you plan to get whole? Does this mean you are going to separate from your WW? I understand about not giving yourself totally to the relationship (prior A). My FWH and I both had that problem too. It took MC and this site to help us out.

Gg

You can do both I believe. The Harleys counseling is sound. Stay together and work with an outside objective counselor.

The question of course is. Do you still love her? My guess is yes and in time you can heal up your marriage. It will be work and both of you will have to do it.

GG,

I am hoping to continue in individual council in healing and becoming whole again.
Right now I am still trying to decide if I want to say in the m, other than for the important kids reason, the shame she would face with her family,the expense of D and the fear of building a whole new life.
I want to so be sure my motives for staying are the for the right reasons and not just to avoid other's from hurting.
I don't know if I can or want to let my guards down to accept the basic need of love from her or from anyone at this point.

On our way back she was agitated when I asked her to tell her mom. She is from the asian culture and her mom and her family would disown her and she would be branded for life in her tight knit community if this was ever exposed. Even though the offense was horrible and she hurt me like no one else has, I don't want her or her family to face that label.

AS you can see I am in a tight spot because even though I may want out it would hurt other's if I can't grin and bear it and make the best of it.

Sorting,
I really don't know if I do love anymore. I do the loving things to keep everything together and go though the motions to avoid other's being hurt.
Do I feel bad for her? Do I see she has done a horrendous act and she deserves forgiveness? yes, very much so. I don't know if I can accept her love or if I am willing to accept her love.