My wife and I have always had heart to share or home with people that needed help. Over a year ago we took in a friend who needed to get rest and get his life straight.
Once day I woke up and came downstrairs and found them having sex. They immediately came to me crying over the the guilt and shame of being caught in the act. He moved out the next day and my wife continued to ask for forgiveness and for me to speak with her.
I am so hurt of the last image I saw of them but we have two kids 6 and 3 and I can't bear ever leaving them by getting a divorce.
I can;t believe my wife when she says she loves me because of the actions of this ongoing relationship under my own roof. I feel like she feels the guilt and don't want to face the shame of facing neighbors, friends and her family. and also the possibility of losing the kids.

For the past year, we have been going through counceling and trying to work through everything that happenned. I can honestly say there has been a visible change in my wife and all for the better.

Many times I still wonder what I am doing in this marriage other than to avoid a truamatic life for my young kids. I am in the marriage and trying to lead my heart to genuinly love my wife but I am just going through the motions and the guilt of being fake is killing me. I am trying to be happy but other than spending quality time with the kids my life sucks. I get up go to work, work out, come home spend time with the family and then go through the same cycle. Couple of years ago I was heavy into youth and college ministries and was joyful serving but now I have no passion, no desire to be anything anymore. My wife is doing the best she can and I think she notices there is something missing from my part. Beleive me I can act it out and keep trying to lead my heart but how many years do I have to continue like this?
I don't know how to deal with the vivid images of walking in on the act without completely trying to ignore it and blocking it out of my head like it never happened. Everyone I talk to tells me to stay in the marriage and deal with it. That marriages have gotten stronger and much better than it was previously. I hate to say it this way but I am tired of those answers. How do you lose your limb and go through life like it was never there?

Why don't you talk to your wife about this?

I am sure sorry this happened to you. The best that you can do is to build a new marriage and do your best to stay away from triggers. Have you moved away from this home? When an affair takes place inside of one's safe home, many BS' feel triggered in their own homes. What about moving?

p.s. is this guy completely and totally out of your lives now? Do either of you EVER see him?

Crusade:

Search for krazy71's posts on this site. He walked in on his wife, and after three years of trying to recover, decided to divorce his wife. Start at the beginning. You will be startled by the similarities to your sitchs, as well as your thoughts and ideas.

There was another poster, abot a year ago, who walked in on his W having SF at one of thier rental properties. She ended up pregnant from the OM, and having the baby. THey decided to recover. Maybe someone can remember his name and lead you to his posts.

Both can help you come to grips with what happened.

And help you make the choice that you need to make.

LG

Jm, I just feel emotionally detached. I do talk about it in counselling sessions but nothing jump starts my heart

Crusade ~ look into EMDR therapy. I went through it and it's helpful for PTSD which you certainly have from walking in on your W having sex with someone else.

EMDR is helpful for many BSs but can be ESPECIALLY helpful for you because of what you saw.

I am sorry you are here.

Melody,

I really haven't thought about moving due to this. At first i hated being in the same house but learned to endure for the sake of the kids.
The OP is out of our lives as far as I know.

Enduring does not benefit your kids at all if it keeps their father triggered. You should strive to remove all triggers, even if it means moving to a new city.

Have you verified that your wife is not in contact with this bum?

Are you reliving the affair in counseling? Because that is another practice that will keep you triggered and crippled. Stop doing that!

Your best bet is to make behavioral changes such as a) stop talking about it and b) moving away from the scene of the crime. You are bound to be triggered if you have to walk through the scene of the crime every day.

Moving is often highly suggested after an A but in this case I'd say it's an absolute MUST.

You might not even realize how badly it's triggering you, but this is probably the reason why you are feeling so "numb". You've had to disengage from your entire life in order to not feel the trauma again every time you walk into your own home.

MOVE !
RELOCATE !

That would be Runnerboy. He remains the best ever example of nuclear exposure on this board. The OM in his sitch was was a real prize. Shortly after RB's d-day, he caught the same married OM with another OW, took a picture and sent it to OMW.

Before you can continue your marriage, you need to know why she did what she did. How can you trust her and why?

There is no guarantee that she will be taken back. Christ took us back, but if we do not return - he withdraws for good.

Honesty is part of establishing marriage. Has she done this in or before marriage -your lives must be absolutely open.

Has she tried to justify her action on the basis of your behaviour. There is none, but it is useful to realize whether you met her emotional needs.

Lastly have you consulted a pro marriage MC.

Crusade,
You've been asked some very good questions. I would add that you need to be brutally honest with yourself in answering - even if you move, will you be able to move past what has happened?

Gg

Crusade, this is the MB site and it, apparently, provides a very good method of recovering a marriage , itf that is your desire.
For me, when I first started researching this stuff, I felt like the odd man out here, as my XW never gave us a a chance to recover from her affair,. She simply walked out and has never acknowledged cheating.
But, I think it is important that you know that the majority of relationships touched by infidelity do not survive. A great many BSs do not get over this, ever. And, those folks are normal, healthy, good people. Harley , himself, has indicated he would be unwilling to reconcile if his spouse cheated on him.

So, if , after much soul searching, you find that you are like the majority of BSs, and realizer that you do not want to be married to a cheating spouse, do not feel alone.
If you still are unsure and want to try, folks seem to be getting decent results from the MB weekend and counseling with the Harley's
FWIW, sorry your spouse decided to do this to you and your family. It is abuse of the highest order. IS she abusive in other ways, as well? Does she demonstrate other weird behaviors?

Actually, this is FALSE, Zelmo...a great many DO survive. I don't know the stats off the top of my head but I do believe more survive after an A than fail.

Not according to Harley, Married. He does say his program , when worked by both parties is highly successful. Other sites make similar claims.
But, Harley has stated that Plan A works around 15% of the time and Plan B works even less. So, you are talking a max of 30% recovery rate.
I think folks get confused because the people that are motivated enough to enlist Harely's help are a select group and the success rate is, therefore, high.

Aww, you beat me to it, MF And as far as Dr. Harley goes: I was also one of those spouses who swore that all bets were off if my H ever had an A. Just goes to show you that you don't know what you'll do until it really happens.

Unfortunately, real statistics about affair recovery are lacking, IMHO, for one simple reason:

Cheaters lie.

Always have, always will.

I just fuond this stat on another affair-recovery website:

.

This means that 70-80% of MARRIED COUPLES (those STILL married) chose to recover the marriages.

I think you have to really look at the sentence structure, Married. While your interpretation could be correct, it could also be saying that 70-80% of couples married at the time, struggle with this, without any info on what transpires after the struggle.
I have read on numerous sites that do not sell marriage saving services , that 30% is the survival rate.

The statistics and their interpretation would make an interesting discussion for a separate thread.

Imagine, her reason for doing it was the thrill of sin. Once you get into it even though you want to stop your caught up in the in it. I honestly have to believe though that if they were not caught that they still would have been active with one another.

she has struggled with her self worth and was very sexually active right until we got engaged. I don't think she ever resolved those issues and bought it into the marriage.

She has shown me in the last year that I can trust her.

GG, I honestly don't know. do people honestly get passed it or do they endure it making the best of what is left?
I am willing to give it a try if it helps.

Crusade7, we have the testimonies of many, many recovered husbands and wives to the effect that if they fully follow Dr. Harley's plan for marital recovery -- BOTH partners! -- within two years their love is restored and they trust one another again.

I always forgive.
I will never forget.

Then if you truly want to try you need to consider moving. Staying in the house is like picking at a scab. You cannot fully heal. One guy here got rid of his bed because he couldn't bear the thought of knowing his WW shared it with OM. I didn't not catch my FWH in the act but we did go to MC and used the MB principles and after two years our M is Recovered.

Look at Mark's signature - he has a link to Memories and triggers. (Mark is everywhere)

Gg

In the meantime, rearrange the room and get rid of the sofa if that is where you caught them.

Gg

Crusade:

Tough thing you had to see and the pain must be horrible. I am convinced my wife had a SA but she wont admit it and I know how I feel just believing she did. There is nothing fair about what the BS must endure, nothing at all. You are justified to leave her and I will tell you right now, it would likely be the less painful act you can do. You can choose to stay and you will be haunted by what you saw. I am haunted by what I didn't see going on six years later. My old deep love I felt for my FWW before the affair is different than it is today. I put her on a pedestal before and today we simply chose to stay married.

At the end of the day, you are going to have to choose to forgive her but you will never forget what you saw. In time, the damage of the affair fades and it becomes just another event in your marriage. I am not unhappy I stayed married, but as I said, it is a bit different now.

Ask yourself this question. "Is your wife the person you want to spend the rest of your life with and is she the person you want standing beside you when you bury your parents and other people close to you?" Every BS on these boards who stayed together with their WS's all had to make the choice to forgive and move forward. That applies to EA's, SA's, and even people who caught their spouses in the act itself.

Be prepared for an emotional ride because it takes a long time to overcome the pain that was put on you against your will. Betrayal kills the only thing that we all thought was real in our marriages, our trust and our loyalty from our spouses. Divorcing her is the easiest way out. I too put my kids and my family ahead of my own pain and stayed. I have a decent marriage today but it is a different marriage than before. I hope this helps to some degree.

TooSoon

Here's the link to Mark's thread on memories

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2267144&page=1

Here's another good link for you on Why We Can't Forgive and Forget...

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5042_qa.html

i know this does not help anybody at all, but at times i ask myself why some of us have to go thru this trauma while others are lucky and are married to people who will not cheat on them?
In other words, why us?
I swear, this is the most painful experience I ever had. I found my father dead in front of the house and I thought i would never recover...but I did. And my H betrayal (twice) is way more painful than the sudden death of my dad!
I had 3 people die in my presence, my uncle right in my arms of terminal cancer.
Is life putting me thru all this pain of loss for a reason?
I am waiting to see what my path is.
I have see loss and death in the face many times.
It is painful, very.
blessing

TooSoon,Thanks so much. At one time she was the person I committed to spend the rest of my life with.Right now I just don't know. I believe that I am trying to be fair in trying but I just don't know if I am madly in love and if I ever can be. In the end I know I am not being fair to my wife or to myself if I can't offer 100% of myself.
The main thing that is keeping from leaving is the trauma that it causes the kids. I love them dearly and cannot bear the thought of them growing up in a divorced home like I have. They don't deserve that kind of pain.
I honestly can say if I we did not have kids that I would not be here.

But Crusade, you DO have kids and you do have the responsibility towards them. There is LOVE in your relationship with your W, it is the love for your kids. OK, you do not feel the pang for your wife, nor the passion. But you did admit that she has become a better person in the last year. Mature love is different from the passion we too often see in A for example.
If you and your family moved to a new place that might help you with the images of your W and OM.
Are y�u forming an attachment to an OW or are you fantasizing about other women? I am asking you this because if that were the case feeling of love for your wife might not be easy to re-kindle.
blessing

Wow. I never realized that the house itself could be a trigger. After I caught them she admitted that they have had sex downstairs, in our bedroom and even in the kids room.
I still don't understand why...?? The OP had nothing going for him but she chose to go downstairs and give herself freely to him.

What a horrible experience for you...sorry.

Has she been honest with you since you walked in on her?

It's highly unlikely you walked in the first time it happened. Honesty is the base for rebuilding. Anything less and you may as well forget it.

Best of luck.

Crusade, I can give y�u my example of how much of a trigger my apartment is:
After I found out about the A my H is having with neighbor OW and after he moved out to his own place:
Every time I left to go to the store or to work I would meet OW on the stair and she would say "Hi" (of course she knows I know...) I would have to go into deep presence and meditation to prevent myself from kicking her and calling her names.
Every time I went to bed and saw the empty space next to me I would think of H all the time
Every time I would walk into son's room I would think of him just freshly away to college.
So I left that apartment and now live like a nomad and go from friends to friends house (all single women, or married but with H away,I would never live with a married couple..actually with one exception I did, and the H is 76.)
I would rather live this way (till I find an affordable spot) than to live in that trigger h*ll.
Please move from that house...
blessing

Atena, I don't have any close friendships with any OW.
When I was younger, woman were my weakness. I was too nice for my own good and did not know how to say "no". After re-committing my life to God, I decided that would not develop a emotional and physical relationship with anyone from the opposite sex until I was ready for marriage. So I built emotional & physical boundries to avoid ever putting myself in situations again. After three years of being single I finally proposed to a childhood friend out of the blue and she is now my wife. I still have those safeguards around other woman to the point where I get very uncomfortable talking in private or otherwise. I tend to push woman towards my wife so they can build a relationship.

Bravo!
Good. You are one of those golden guys.
blessings

What!! My God - that house is one huge trigger for you. You definately need to move.

Gg

Atena,I don't know obviously something had to be missing.

Mai Mai, I want to believe that she has been honest.

The above is from Harley. Crusade - do you know what your WW's top EN are? Harley has a EN questionnaire that both of you can do. The link in the Most Popular Links to right of your screen.

Gg

There was no remorse until she got caught. Her actions showed me that she didn't love me. She chose to go downstairs and give herself freely.
I think she decided that it was better that she stays with me because of the house, the kids and she didn't have to face the shame by telling her family.

Crusade,
Have you read about exposure. It is the fastest way to kill the A but also helps WS realize the gravity of their choices.
The family needs to be informed. If there is no consequence to your WW she is most likely to repeat A with another man. You can read more about exposure in the Newsletter forum.

Gg

GG,There was no EN the OM was giving her.He was using her and she knew it.
All he ever did was sleep here and play PS3 until late hours of the night.
When ever he wanted to get "off" he made his advances and she said yes.

Gg, Thanks.I will read up on exposure. I always felt that it was her place to tell her mom.

I translate this as she had a high need for SF which is an EN. There had to be some emotional attachment to OM. With women there usually is.

Gg

You should also read up on Plan A & B. I think you will feel much better if you have a plan. Right now you're sort of in limbo not really knowing which way to go. Harley's concepts provide a roadmap for you and it puts you in control of where you want to go (no matter what the end result).


Plan A&B
Plan A & Plan B

Carrot & Stick Of Plan A
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1640788#Post1640788

If this is the case, I'd be hard pressed not to toss her.

How about a polygraph for her?

I hope you're not running a shelter anymore!

c7

You need to sell the house and move. What ever furniture or rugs or whatever the WW and OM used for love gymastics must also be left behind. Do not bring the poison into the new home.

This is a big trigger. Taking the daily tour of where the WW and OM rutted multiple times.

Also it takes two to five years for recovery. You have not hit the two year mark.

A good sign is that the WW is improving. You are also doing a good job by your kids.

Gg mentioned that the OM may have met some emotional need. I figured after the fact they she may have loved him because I came across thousands of texts to the OM when I started looking through the phone bills. Send texts while under the same roof?? I can't make sense out of nonsense.

Nah no more shelter. I have a 69 yr old God Father I took in years ago and if she decides to sleep with him than I think I'll take that as a sign to join monkhood.

You likely know so little about what really happened. You need to figure out if you are fine with that or not.

This was NOT the first time!

Do you need to know everything?

Thanks TR. We have gotten rid of some furniture but it seems like for my own sanity we may have to move.
The kids are very young and I know if I can stick out it for another 20 or 30 years and see my grandkids it will be all worth it.
I guess I just expected too much out of marriage and love. I just hope I can start living with some passion again.

Mai,I asked her to be honest with me and tell me everything so I can heal sooner then later. It's not like I wasn't ready to except it since my imagination took me to the darkest places.
She wrote me a letter telling me how it started, where, when, how she felt,etc, etc. I am pretty sure there's more but I seen first hand of the act so it really didn't matter what she had to tell me anymore...

He was meeting her top need for conversation.

While you were meeting 4 or 5 of her lower ENs.

Crusade,
No pity party. You need to feel empowered. You need a plan to recover your Marriage. Read the links provided. Start Exposure and Plan A. You can ask your MC if he/she can use MB concepts. My MC had it but I didn't know about it at the time to ask.

Gg

Agreed.

MaiMai, what's your story?

Your right Gg. I am defeated being here and sittin around in limbo.
I am going to MC, spending family time, doing the Love and Respect series with other couples, going to church, celebrating anniversary and birthday and trying to lead my heart to be real. I am in Limbo because I feel it's just not real and there has to be more to all this....I just don;t know what else to do except either keep going forward with what I am already doing and hope to jump start my heart eventually or just quit now...

The house trigger may have a lot to do with it...So I'll work on a solution with that..

Crusade,

Your marriage can be recovered but you need more information. Several have made some great recommendations: suggesting that the house itself is a trigger for you.

You said something a few pages back that I thought was telling. You said At this point of recovery you should not be "imagining". She needs to be telling you. You also said

This is NOT nonsense. This is a big clue as to what her needs are. She needs communication, she apparently likes flirting (my guess as I have not read the texts), and she was pursued.

You MUST figure out her needs. She MUST figure out your needs.

Harley, did say he would divorce if his W had an affair. With the caveat that they had no children.

However, also says and the data is very clear that two things can and will help recover a marriage. These are his two polices. One is called the Policy of Joint Agreement, POJA. and the other is the policy of Radical honesty. You need to read up on these policies and I will tell you why.

You are not being honest with your W. She needs to KNOW about the movie still playing in your head. She needs to hear what is holding you up in recovery. She needs to know that your spirit is way down. And then the two of you need to be very honest with one another and make a plan to recover.

Let me offer you something to consider. Many years ago (yes I have been here over a decade) several BS's were trapped with triggers. One particular lady had a husband that had taken his OW to many resturants in the area and used a variety of big name hotel chains for his affair. Every time she saw these restaurants she trigger, every time she say these hotel chains she triggered. Their marriage was headed for the dumper.

What was recommended and what she did, is and her husband eat at every restaurant that he ate at with OW. The stayed at every hotel and "took back the memories" for this hotel from what he had done with OW to what THEY had done at that hotel. It worked.

You might want to consider "taking back your house" if you cannot move. It can work, and your W needs to know why you are doing it and what you are trying to accomplish.

Please do the reading of the Harley articles here. Have your W do the same. It seems you want this marriage to recover, although you don't feel so hot about it now. It can, but things must change. Plans must be made to protect the marriage, and each other. Plans must be made to have a marriage that you both enjoy. Plans must be made to regain the trust you lost.

The templates for these plans are on this site. Ideas for how to impliment them can be found in Harley's articles and within this discussion section. I will leave you with one other thing. Please read Harley's four rules for a good marriage. They are simple, they are obvious, and they are frequently not implimented by couples. These rules are the basis for a planned recovery.

You feel empty now, because you don't know what to do other than wait for things to change. Crusade, things change when things are changed. You and your W need to change the dynamic of your marriage and the information on this site is a great and successful place to start.

Please read it. Please talk with your W and have her read it. The plan is to build a better marriage than before. You cannot do that dredging the past, but you would be a fool not to use the past as a learning tool to make a better future.

You CAN do this. You W CAN do this. Please think about it and give it a try.

God Bless,

JL

JL, Thanks so much. I will keep reading everything mentioned and in time hopefully everything can become second nature to me.

Crusade,
It must seem like we're throwing at lot of stuff at you. Take time, asborb everything. Recovery is a process. You might want to print out the article and give it to your WW. It's Harley's response to a wayward wife and what a Wayward needs to do to start recovering the M.

Rules for Wayward to Follow

Gg

Crusade:

It is very important to not make any rash decisions at this time. Everything is too fresh. Accept the fact that there was a breakdown in your marriage first. If you can do that, you had a role in the breakdown, but not in the act of the betrayal itself. Your wife owns that by herself.

Take everything one day at a time. Get the MC and keep an open mind. The good news is your wife was caught red handed and you don't have to play the guessing game that most of us had to play with our WS's. It sounds like she is fessing up and that is important.Your life and marriage is upside down now and nothing is as you knew it the day before you caught her in the act. Try to get her to open up and talk and allow her the ability to tell you everything.

I feel sorry for you since you just had a dose of real life thrown at you that you never thought would or could happen in your marriage. Most people and marriages have imperfect lives and you are now part of the club of BS's.

There is life after an affair so give your wife some time to see how things play out. Smart spouses don't have lunch with people of the opposite sex because it can lead to something. It was a mistake to allow the person in your house but you know that now. If your marriage wasn't broken to some degree, it might have been less likely to happen.

One day at a time for now.

TooSoon

Crusade,

One other thing that Harley points out from his experience counseling couples trying to recover their marriage...it takes roughly TWO YEARS, sometimes longer. You are only have way there, and further the one year anniversary is almost always a big trigger.

So don't despair. You can do this, and you are pretty much on time with all of this.

Hang in there.

JL

Would you trust a drug addict who stole all the family's money to support her habit to just go and tell her parents that she has ruined the family so she can have her fix?

Would you trust her to even tell the truth?

Come on. Time to man up. Time to stop thinking you have to be 'nice' to women just because they are women.

Do you know the #1 reason women stop loving men (IMO)? Because she loses respect for him. Because he is too nice. Because he won't fight the other guy for her.

You are THAT man now.

Time to man up and fight. This is war.

Catperson, I won't fight the other guy for her. It would of been easier if told me that she wants to be with the other guy. To me she's not worth fighting for. Kids yes, her no. Sorry if that sounds cruel.

Crusade, is she a dirtbag? Are there other problems with living with her besides this affair? And any affair that lasts a year right under your nose is no small thing.

This is not a thread about me.

Bubbles, other than her immutrity and anger I don't see any other issues. I defintely see changes in those areas.
Dirtbag..?? No. She is a very good willed person.
It's not a small thing and that's why I am struggling with it so much.
I was thinking of people who have their arms or legs cut off. How do they go on like it never happened? They replace the limb with plastic, fake stuff to help the survive their everyday life. Their life is never the same.

Your life never will be the same, you are correct.

However, your marriage can be better...

You will never erase the infidelity, but, it may be possible to grow from it. Much like a flower can grow from manure.

Mai, How does it get better? Is the committment any stronger than the day we both said "I Do"? Is the sex better knowing the person you committed and vowed has shared the marriage bed with someone else? Does the emotional aspects get better knowing you didn't fullfill some EN prior and always on guard becasue God forbid if your not able to fullfil that need..

I am not trying to be a jerk but I just don't understand how a marriage is better after an affair.

Basically you can reconnect with your wife. Don't get me wrong, this is no easy task. It takes a man of tremendous will. And, if your wife is less than 100% willing, you will be wasting your time.

It doesn't happen in weeks either. This is a process of years.

You also won't ever, ever forget the infidelity. Don't let anyone fool you about that. It will however, sting less over time, as it is replaced with renewed love for your wife. Again, that is only if she is 100% committed and loving in turn.

Is your wife ready for this journey? Has she agreed to 100% transparency? She should willingly hand you her cell phone and password. She should let you install a GPS if you want. She should call you from land lines with caller ID to check in. Basically she needs to bend over backwards to make you feel safe.

Where is she in this process today?

Mai, I believe she is 100% transparent and is committed to rebuilding. I have my reservations cause it's going to take a heck of alot to win my heart over and see someone new.
I am doing the things with her like I always known to do and forceing myself to enjoy those moments. Hopefully one day it will be real in my own heart.

Is your wife sorry for boinking the other man? Is she really really sorry and remorseful? Did she cry about it and tell you how rotten she was?

Is your wife working at a job? Are you working at a job?

I'm not saying to fight HIM. I'm saying to fight the AFFAIR. It doesn't even matter if you keep her. The affair is ruining lives. It must be stopped.

Because, if she stops the affair, and realizes what a horrible thing she has done, and is horrified by her actions - and yes, this does happen; you can see it in a lot of thread here in the Recovery section - BOTH of you are literally scared straight. You vow to each other to NEVER let complacency take over your lives again. Or lies. Or indifference. Or resentment.

You go to counseling together. You set up weekly relationship discussion time, where you vow to be honest with each other, and you work through any issues that are brought up instead of stuffing them and turning to others to have your needs met.

Yes, there will always be a pain in your heart. But the relationship you build TOGETHER after that can be stronger, better, more loving, and more respectful than ever before.

You're hurting right now. That's expected. And no one will fault you if you decide you don't want her. But I'll tell you that I have seen some humdingers here, where the man vows no way in h&ll he'd ever take 'that woman' back; and yet a week later, he's asking for advice on how to fix the marriage.

Just give yourself some time before you make any concrete decisions, ok?

Well 'fake it until you make it' is a start!

Crusade,
This is how you move forward - by your WW's actions everyday for the rest of your M. It is going to take a lot of work on her part. I can tell you that is the only reason my M is R - because of my FWH's actions everyday.

Crusade, the first six months are awful. Your belief system and the foundation that built your M have been shattered. Mine and others here were too but day by day and little by little we got through. Recovery is a process and what you are going through is the first of many phases you will go through. I went through them and the good people here helped me.

Like JL and others have written, your M will never be the same but it is possible to have a better M and become even better people.

I wish I had some magical words to make you feel better but in the angry phase - you have to get through day by day until you calm down and can make decisions on how you want to move forward. It comes down to choosing - either try to recover your marriage - or not.

Gg

Crusade, your first post was yesterday so I gather did just happened and that she has been having an A with OM for a year.
You do not have to continue in this M, however since it is recent do all the MC footwork and see the Harleys if you can afford it.
In the meantime remember that whomever you will date one day out there (if you do D) will have baggage and will be somewhat messed up one way or the other. YOu have a big investment with y�ur wife that is y�ur marriage, your kids, your life together for these years.
Throwing it away, finding a new mate and hoping for the passion to continue with the new mate is only wishful thinking.
blessing

Crusade, I also caught my stbxw in the act, and before then I suspected nothing. I completely broke down. It's a miracle that I didn't hurt myself or someone else. My memory of the 6 months after that day are fuzzy at best.

My d-day was July of '06. I moved out in April of this year. I tried everything I could, but I realized I had to choose between the pain of divorce or the pain of feeling dead inside indefinitely. I chose divorce.

My guilt over breaking up the family was tremendous. I haven't shared this here yet, but it really pushed me right to the brink of doing something awful to myself. Even though part of me knew I was doing what's best for my kids, I couldn't help feeling like a worthless person for doing what I'd done.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's NOT in the kids' best interest to stay in a broken marriage, and be sure to seek individual counseling for yourself if you do decide to leave.

Damn them for putting us in this position.

I respect you, Krazy, for giving it a try in the face of very long odds. Your take is correct. Your XW put you in a no win position.

Krazy, I appreciate your input and I feel like this is exactly where I am at. I want to try and stay and be strong for everyone say that it will be worth it for everyone 30 years down the line.
I don't think ws understands the trauma of watching the incident and finding out that it's been happening for four months under my own roof. Hard to suppress what i seen...

You'll never be able to suppress it. You have to decide if you can live with it. If you can look at her without thinking of what you saw. If you can be in bed with her and not think about it. If you can get over the betrayal...of being cast aside like garbage.

I couldn't. If you can, I salute you. If you can't, try not to kick yourself too hard.

If only I could follow my own advice, I'd be fine.

I am so sorry for you Crusade. I can never understand how the WS can bring OP into the marital home. There are so many other places that they could go. It makes me sick.

I don't know how it is possible to forgive such a transgression. She was screwing this other man in your home for months on end putting your health constantly at risk for STD's. In addition she apparently had no prolem not only constatly screwing him in the basement when you were home but also admitted to screwing him in your kids room and in your bedroom in your bed. This has to be the ultimate in betrayal. By doing this she showed utter disrespect and total distain for your relationship, marriage vows and your feelings. Only a person that would have such total disgust for their spouse could do such a thing. You state that if she had not been caught by you then she would still be doing this to you. What does that tell you?

If the roles were reversed do you honestly think she would have been so accepting as you have been? Her actions shows that she has absolutely no respect for you whatsoever. If you do not respect yourself then who will? I almost feel by what you have written that she had no problem screwing this man in your home under your nose because down deep she had nothing to risk because she knew you would suck it up and forgive her if she got caught. Please don't waste your precious life on someone like this. I wish you luck.

So it is with waytards.

They are what they are.

Crusade,
How are you doing?

Gg

Gg, Thanks so much for asking. I was honest to my WW and told her where I am at. I told her I want to move forward but the images are just killing me. I am in need of some serious therapy.
I've called a couple of places and hoping to get started real soon.
I am just in a withdrawn state right now that even though she's doing so much, I am not engaging emotionally. I recently read about of LB and En and hoping to share with her some of my EN's and hoping that can bring about some change in me.

Thanks so much for followin up..

I am having a horrible time with mind movies that I did not actually see, but know happened, and can imagine what happened....I can't imagine trying to turn off mind movies that you ACTUALLY witnessed, that is tough and I feel for you brother.

Crusade,
I can imagine it is very difficult when a visual is imprinted in your brain. Once the imprint is there it is very difficult to erase. You can, over time, eventually control emotions the memory triggers. Below is from Mark's thread on memory and triggers.

Crusade,

I believe I posted to you earlier about the mind movies. They will last but the memories will gradually detach from your feelings. Further, if you two make new memories, there is a good chance of you getting past all of this.

I know you are in a withdrawn state, and that is a reasonable place to be given you are not sure how to defend yourself. I am glad you told her what the problem is and that you are struggling with this problem. You are doing better than you think.

It may come to be like Krazy that you just cannot do this. That is a reasonable decision. It may come to be that you can , and that is a reasonable decision as long as you and your W actually work to address why she allowed her boundaries to be crossed, and to make a plan to protect you, her, and the marriage from this behavior again.

This is tough stuff you are dealing with and it will take time for it all to sort out. You can darned well plan on a few years. You cannot expect yourself to handle this in less time than her affair lasted. You cannot expect yourself to handle all of this for less than a few years. Things can and should get better, but it will not only take time, and patience, but a lot of rethinking things on both of your parts.

You are doing well to give it your best shot, but have patience with yourself.

Oh! and one last thing. No matter what you decide you are not going to get rid of these movies, stay, divorce, separate, it does not matter. This is truly a case of "you can run but you cannot hide." You are making wise and well considered decisions (no making a decision is a real good decision right now). Please hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

Could it be worse for you Crusade?

A young co-worker, who has been in a 4 to 5 month long Physical affair, came to the office today and announced she has gone back with her husband in the last two weeks. I asked her why she decided to do so and she said she missed her two young children so she went back for Christmas and she now wants to rebuild her marriage. I congratulated her and wished her luck. She then said she has some other issues working because she just found out she is pregnant. I told her if she knows she is already pregnant then it is probably her lover's baby and not her husband's baby. She said her husband wants her back so bad he will raise the child as if it is his own. I told her that is ok for now but once he gets used to you being back, then the affair, lover, and child issue will later come into serious play.

I guess Crusade, you experienced a tough situation but here might be a more difficult case. They are going to work hard to salvage their marriage but I think the odds are way against them. I thought I might pass this on to you for your case could be worse.

For what it is worth,

TooSoon

Great stuff by JL. Crusade - you said "serious therapy" and yes maybe therapy can help you, but also realize even with therapy it will take a long time to get beyond something like this. Recovery is a process (with or without the images). It is what it is.

Gg

Ask your wife to pay for any counseling you need due to her affair. Also figure out some other (painful and monetary or now) retribution for terrorizing you by boinking that other guy.

SHE OWES YOU, MAN!!!!

TheRoad made a good point. 2 years into what your dealing with inside is not enough time to get past this.
My first wife had an affair after 2 years marriage(we were married at 18) and got pregnant by the guy. I did my best to deal with it and even considered raising the baby. It wasn't his fault. My wife didn't accept the child after he was born and we gave him up for adoption.

After toughing it out for 2 more years I separated from her and we eventually got divorced. I should have went to counselling instead of trying to deal with it on my own and burying my emotions.

I salute you for coming here to work on your marriage. I am sure that you can recieve good help from this site. If your marriage can be helped it will require both of you to work hard. She will have to work too. Most importantly she will have to get the guts to be honest and respect you enough to honor your heart.

Get some seriuos counselling and maybe you can rediscover the romance you two lost in this evil trick of the mind that effected you both.

I would move out, burn the house, bury the house with 6 ft of dirt, then bury the shovel, and your wife should be willing to do it with you.

I don't know but I also maybe struggling with the guilt of wanting to give up. There are so many people that want us to stay togehter becasue it's better for the kids, family, for God.

I was re-reading my WW letter and her reasoning for what she did. it so full of hurt for herself and how bad of a woman she was for doing this and that she was trusting God that He will work in my heart to heal me and this marriage. I am stuck here trying to rationlize and sympathize with her hurt and her reason for the A to make it better for everyone except me.
Sometimes I wish I can get the "I don't care" mentality, curse, yell instead of trying to supress and be depressed..

I don't know but I also maybe struggling with the guilt of wanting to give up. There are so many people that want us to stay togehter becasue it's better for the kids, family, for God.

This is not true. Your wife is using GOD to soften your heart to what she did to you. These people who want you to stay together do not know how heinous she is, having that affair IN THE NAME OF GOD!!!!

I would leave her tomorrow and then get a divorce and then date her if you really wanted to knowing what she is like. She thinks she can cry a little and have you manipulated again feeling sorry for HER?????!!!! WOW.

God does not want people who cheat on thier spouses. How do you know GOD wants you together. Perhaps he wants the evil cheater to leave and someday you could meet a better non cheater to marry.

Besides the cheating is your wife selfish, difficult to be around,, demanding, or a money grubber? Does she work to support the family? Does she have addictions or spending issues? I would examine her entire character now to see if you really want that one in your life. Would you date her now knowing what she is like? God gives us a brain to examine another person we are thinking of keeping in our lives. Use your brain here.

This is your end of dealing with this. Of course you want to give up. You need to give up the fantasy of the past. This issue is between God and you first, then if your WW is up to the challenge maybe she can join you.

BB4U has a good point, first of all most ppl want you two to be OK and then the problem goes away for them. Also that WW should be acting responsible in every way as a grown up. Whatever sickness of her mind is HER responsibilty to deal with God about.

Did you know that adultery is the only reason God will accept for divorce? Its not a mandate. Obviuosly God knew how hard it is on us for someone to betray us after swearing to HIm that they wouldn't. The one we marry is supposed to be the one human being on this earth we trust with our lives.
You can divorce her without guilt if you want. Nobody can or should get between what you do to keep yourself healthy emotionally. You are free to do whatever you choose and God lets us know what the consequences will be. Your WW didn't pay very good attention to that did she? It seems that you are and you are trying to forgive. Thats good but it will never be the way you once wanted it to be. Can you separate the two? I don't know but you will have to depend on God for your expectations until either she lives up to her end again and earns her way back.

The pain of a pyhsical A is so personnally painful it will never be forgotten. When your WW brought your marriage into this disgusting behavior she dragged you and your children into the filth too. You need to own what you do as she needs to own what she does/did.
Can you move on in the marriage? Thats what this site is all about. Read on, get therapy and stay open to God through these people and through DR Harley. In the end do what God leads you to do. He knows your heart better than anyone. Don't try to do God any favors, let him lead you. Let his law be what you lean upon. "Lean not unto your own understanding" ring a bell?

If you stand for truth and light you will be doing the best you can be expected from anyone including your marriage and family, children.
"Trust God for the consequences of your obediance" is something that comes to mind.

SIO,
But what about forgiveness? If I have been forgiven of so much am I not expected to forgive others even if they offended me?
Isn't the greatest expression of love is to love someone when they don't deserve it?
I know God hates divorce even if someone has an A and He would want me to stay in this if I am not hard hearted. I am trying my darnest not to be hard hearted and forgive and move forward.
I know my faith has taken a huge hit in all this. I don't want to go to church anymore, talk to anybody (except for MB & MC's of course). I feel alone in going through this becasue it is expected for me to be strong and get over it since she has repented and changed her ways. i am emotionally and spiritually empty becasue of all this. Thankfully I am in very good physcial condition as as I know.

BB4U has a good point, first of all most ppl want you two to be OK and then the problem goes away for them.
I never thought about this...sure makes alot of sense. Wish I could say screw everybody and get away and do what's best for me.

You can.

BB4U,

Before the A she was very difficult to be around. Kind of walked on eggshells when she was angry or upset. After awhile I just gave up and hoped and prayed she matured.
She's not a money grubber and until this past year I was the only one working.

Now my WW is open and honest and she has alot of people that is investing in her ife now and keeping her accountable which is great becasue this is something I wanted from the very begenning of the marriage to help her with some of her immuturity.

PM, But I know that's not the right thing. I'll just be reacting to hurt and in turn hurting everyone who are innocently involved .

Crusade,

You asked

You can love her and still divorce. You can forgive her and still divorce. Here is something that I think you and for sure your W NEVER understood about marriage. Marriage is NOT about feelings it is about actions. The word love is actually a verb. Meaning to love someone means to ACT LOVING TOWARD THEM. You can act with care and love and still not be married to her. You, for your own sake, forgive her eventually no matter what you decide to do about this marriage.

Of course people want the family to stay together. If ever you found a group that wants this, you have found it here. This is a "marriage builders" site after all, and most of us post and try to help preserve the marriage. But, what this site is NOT is a Marriage at all costs, site. Neither is your marriage. As has been pointed out, even God allows divorce in the case of adultery. You have every reason to divorce. And maybe it will come to that.

I know the film running in your head is getting to you. However, you have said NOTHING about the really important stuff. Frankly, I don't care if the film is there or not, you are NOT focusing on the important stuff and you are not even mentioning it here.

So let me kick you in the tush, and get you focusing on the stuff that SHOULD determine whether or not you remain married.

1. Does she have a plan to protect you, the marriage, and her?

2. Has she identified why she allowed her boundaries to be overrun, or if she even had boundaries?

3. HERE is a Biggie, does she know what love is? If so is she showing that she knows and is being loving toward you?

4. Are you willing to be loving toward her?

5. What are your plans for the marriage heading forward?
Start with what would be a good marriage for you. Then decide what your boundaries are. Then decide how you would accomplish making your marriage a good one.

6. Are you even willing to try this? If so why? If not, why not? She had an affair is really NOT a good reason. I know that sounds odd, but dramatic events are opportunties to change. Are either of you willing to change?

7. Have either of you read, discussed, and come to understand what is on this site? If not why not? IF so, what is your understanding, what is her understanding? Harley did not invent recovering marriage, but he organized and simplified the approach so taht everyone can use it.

8. What are your life goals. Can your W help you achieve them? Is she willing to help you achieve them? Is she a net plus or minus in your life?

Crusade, Harley lists two policies that he thinks are required for a good marriage: the policy of "radical honesty" and the policy of joint agreement, POJA. You cannot even begin to accomplish a recovered marriage without these two policies being used by both of you. HOWEVER, the policy of "radical honesty" first and foremost MUST be used by you on yourself.

You need to be very very honest in your assessment of yourself, and the 8 items I have listed. There are more things for you to consider but YOU must address these items...HONESTLY.

Are you seeing anything in what I have written about the film playing in your head? No you are not. The film will stay or go as time goes on. Whether you remain in this marriage and rebuild it or leave it, depends on OTHER issues. Address those other issues, the film will take care of itself.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Crusade,
I think you would benefit a lot from this website..www.rejoiceministries.com
Please read everything there, it will help you a lot

Angie

Crusade,
JL has written an excellent post to you.

Your description about forgiveness translates to loving your wife unconditionally. The above quote is from the Newsletter Forum article "When to call it quits." I encourage you to read the articles in the Newsletter Forum on uncontional love and when to call it quits.

Gg

c7
When BH's come here it usually is close to D day or they suspect there W is having an affair.

They are told to wait at least six months before they make any important decision such as divorce or recovery. They need the time to process what has happened.

Why not wait six months from the time you have started posting on MB before you make any important decisions.

JLs post was right on. I also would take some time now to do those assessments.

About forgivness, Many people choose to forgive murderers who have taken the life of their loved ones, it doesn't translate into the murderers to move in with them and be their partner for life. They forgive to remove the bitterness from their own heart.

I pray that you can repair your marriage together. Keep reading and praying.

Hi Crusade:

Your story caught my eye. I divorced my cheating wife and she did the same things your wife did. Had sex with the OM in my home. I did not see them face to face but I did get video of them having sex in my bed. I got recordings of them emails phone calls. I have been there and I know how it hurts.

I just wanted to point out a couple of things from your post.


So your wife was difficult to be around. You had to walk on eggshells and she was angry all the time or upset?? Well that was my XW and I would describe her exactly the same. Wanting to stay at home but always angry. Never happy with what I had done for her.

Can you imagine if you decided to not work and your wife had to go outside the home and work to support you. Then you decided to bang women in her bed and kids room. And to top it off you were walking around the house angry and upset with her. I would guess your wife would realize her life is a living hell. Well guess what my friend that is what your life is a living hell.

Now I understand why you feel the way you do. You had a angry upset wife who got to stay home and she repaid you by being angry and upset and having sex with someone in your own home. I guess I would have to say that she did have a lot of anger toward you. For me personaly having my wife bang a guy in my bed was the worse thing she could have done to me.

So if you have a wife that walks around the home and she is angry and upset and unhappy you probably don't feel good about your love for her when she is acting like that. Now add to that she is bumping uglies with another guy in your home and now I know why you feel trapped. I was the same way until I dumped my wife and got my life back.

Now I am not telling you what to do but I knew I could and would not forgive what she did to me. I have been where you are and I know how sad life is feeling like that.


Why do I think that your wifes main motivation is to keep you together so no one finds out about what she did. If she treated you so poorly before she did this it would seem the only thing keeping the marriage together is her shame that other people would find out what she did to you.

I guess what I am saying is if she was a mad angry woman before and then she did this well now I understand your pain. I know my XW I think she feared more than anything people finding out what she did to me. My XW was so afraid that I was going to tell everyone and well I did do that and at the time I think that was her biggest fear.

Good luck to you and If you can forgive I wish you the best. I was able to forgive my XW but only after I divorced her and hurt her and left her in severe pain. After the way she treated me I was not going to let her treat me like that and have no consequences. And I can tell you that life can be better after the shock is gone. My life is much happier than it was for years with a angry person. I hope it works out for you no matter what you do!!

After posting what I wrote that does not mean you cannot save your marriage. It will take a lot of hard work but some people are able to get there. Sadly the best most people do is come to terms with what happened and accept it and try and move on. I hope you are able to not only survive but thrive.

IHE, WOW..Right there with your story.
Did you work on trying to restore your marriage? Did she change her ways after you caught her?

JL,

A lot to answer and honestly I don't have answers for most of them.
I really got stumpmed on #5. I don't know what a good marriage is any more. I had great examples around before I got married and now not so much. Dang I am so screwed up that I can't see clearly anymore.
Thanks so much for these questions it's helping me to focus on going foward..

Crusade,

You had good examples, what were they? What would make a good marriage in your mind. How would a good marriage work? How would you handle things differently than you have in the past? What would you expect of a good W that you have not expected or gotten in the past?

You need a vision Crusade, then you can make a plan, then you make decisions. Order is important.

God Bless,

JL

>>You need a vision Crusade, then you can make a plan, then you make decisions. Order is important.<<<

Agreed

Your imagination and vision is impaired now. I am reminded that "Without a vision the people perish" from the old testament. People are falible, God isn't, we need to take off the fig leaf and jump right in.

Over the New Year weekend my WW and kids went to visit some friends 3 hours away. On our way there I was open with her and told her the issues that I was having and finally got her to tell me the reasons of why she did what she did instead of the "I don't know" answers.

On our way back we talked some more and I finally realized that I throughout our whole relationship I never trusted 100% to lay down all of myself to her. She was very immature and got very angry when she didn't get her way so I started to pull back to protect my heart and rarely allowed to share what really bothered me. I built an emotional wall. Don't get me wrong I did the loving things, dinners, outing, vacations, I love you's, SF but fear of getting hurt kept me shut down emotionally. I also asked her to be honest with me to tell me if I asked much of her and my WW said no and realized that I was very self sufficient. I never asked her to cook, clean, laundry, etc, etc because I didn't want to burden her but somehow she was still unhappy.

Then the A happened and my heart is in a deeper chamber. I am very compassionate and act on this and I told my WW that I feel bad for her and even feel bad for the OM, I guess that's why I don't feel any anger toward my WW. I really do feel that both WW and OM took advantage of my compassion and my WW still does.

I told my WW that I need to get whole before trying to R this marriage. I need to have joy and happiness myself before I can offer anything to this M. How can I help other's when I am broken and bleeding all over? I lost my identity, my passion, my self respect, my joy and working on getting whole. I really don't if the M will work or not but I want to be well again and be able to fully trust other's with my whole life without the fear of getting hurt.

Crusade,
How do you plan to get whole? Does this mean you are going to separate from your WW? I understand about not giving yourself totally to the relationship (prior A). My FWH and I both had that problem too. It took MC and this site to help us out.

Gg

You can do both I believe. The Harleys counseling is sound. Stay together and work with an outside objective counselor.

The question of course is. Do you still love her? My guess is yes and in time you can heal up your marriage. It will be work and both of you will have to do it.

GG,

I am hoping to continue in individual council in healing and becoming whole again.
Right now I am still trying to decide if I want to say in the m, other than for the important kids reason, the shame she would face with her family,the expense of D and the fear of building a whole new life.
I want to so be sure my motives for staying are the for the right reasons and not just to avoid other's from hurting.
I don't know if I can or want to let my guards down to accept the basic need of love from her or from anyone at this point.

On our way back she was agitated when I asked her to tell her mom. She is from the asian culture and her mom and her family would disown her and she would be branded for life in her tight knit community if this was ever exposed. Even though the offense was horrible and she hurt me like no one else has, I don't want her or her family to face that label.

AS you can see I am in a tight spot because even though I may want out it would hurt other's if I can't grin and bear it and make the best of it.

Sorting,
I really don't know if I do love anymore. I do the loving things to keep everything together and go though the motions to avoid other's being hurt.
Do I feel bad for her? Do I see she has done a horrendous act and she deserves forgiveness? yes, very much so. I don't know if I can accept her love or if I am willing to accept her love.

Your "deficiencies" played no role in her decision to cheat. Perhaps you sensed she had this type of behavior within her. Hence, you unwillingness to full let down your guard. Our subconciouses do pick up on this type of thing within another.

Also, at this pjase, a BS is very vulnerable to mixing up having been imperfect in the marriage with responsibility for having "caused" the affair. Your self esteem and confidence take such a hit, that a WS suggesting you were not meeting needs is often interpreted by a BS as having caused the A.

Normal, healthy individuals do not have affairs to adress their marital dissatisfaction. She had so many other options other than cheating.

So...she isn't going to tell her family she cheated.

What makes you think she won't do it again, then, if she experiences no shame (consequences) for what she did?

Just an aside, but I have noticed that when a man does all the housework, the woman starts resenting him, and also losing respect for him. And often has an affair soon after. It's a male/female thing, generally speaking. Not always, of course, but something to consider. It's often the women with too much time on their hands, who have no accomplishments under their belts, who stray.

In other words, make sure you don't KEEP doing all the housework etc.

I'm not sure I agree with that statement. Domestic Support is my FWW's #1 EN, while it's not even on my list of the top 5. Are you saying you should withhold a spouse's EN to help keep them from straying? That doesn't make much sense to me.

Of course not. And I said it was a generalization. What I have noticed is that many of the WWs spoken of here, had husbands who either initially or eventually ended up doing the lion's share of the housework, while the wife stayed at home (or worked), and did NOT contribute to maintaining the household. I think it's likely more an issue of a H giving in too much to his wife. "I don't like doing toilets, John." "Don't worry, Sheila, I'll do them for you." "You know, I also hate cooking." "That's ok, Sheila, I'll take over the cooking. I know you work hard all day." And on it goes, with the H thinking he's filling her ENs, but in reality she is taking advantage of his niceness. And the 'nicer' he gets, the less she respects him for NOT saying, "Yeah, I can see how hard it is to work 8 hours like I do, but you know what? This should be 50/50, not 90/10. Get a grip, we BOTH have to contribute."

ETA: this could be about anything, it's just the women so often typically run the majority of household support. This could be about any ENs that you are meeting, if the wife ends up not having to (or being expected to) meet any of yours. I guess I'm really talking about being spoiled. In way.

Cat,

I don't think she will. In our culture divorce is frowned upon and both of our families will have to face the shame of a failed marriage. My FWW's dad used to cheat on his wife openly and even had another family in another country but my FWW's mom would not leave him because of the shame she would have to endure. My FWW most likely would not be able to re-marry unless it's outside of the culture.

Just to clarify, the housework was never my expectations but she chose to do it anyway and then constantly complain that no one helped (which is false). I even had maid's come in on a number of occasion to make it easier and reduce her stress.

I think this is very wise on your part. Doing it for the wrong reasons just drags out the inevidible. Also take into consideration everything is still fresh (open wound). You should not be making any life changing decisions in your current state of mind. In the meantime you should hold WW accountable and don't let her project her guilt on you by blaming you for state of relationship. Like someone wrote earlier - she had other choices. She needs to respect whatever you ask of her at this time.

Gg

OK, Crusade, I'm going to say something here that may wind up getting me by some on this board. But I think not:

I think "staying together for the sake of the kids" is absolutely the wrong thing to do! I've heard this bullschwazz before, when I was younger. I didn't buy it then and I don't buy it now.

How is it good for the kids to have their parents constantly at each others' throats? Is this good parenting? I think it's much better to have one parent at least, who can demonstrate the values and principles that young people need to learn rather than two completely dysfunctional people sending all the wrong messages.

If you think you want to hold your marriage together "for the sake of the children," please reconsider. I think that's often more damaging than having parents divorce.

Fred,
I hear you and agree with you but we do yell or show any discord in front of the kids or other people. At least we try to.

Well crusade sounds rough for you. You can't expect,(or trust that), her to be faithful because you can't get any help from the rest of your world, IE. Family .Peers, because of "Shame"

You don't have any solid plans with her to build up the marriage because you you don't know if you should bother because of what a a$$ she was. And she was.. Now your ego is really damaged and you don't think you can get over it, or you don't know.

You might want to keep the family together for the childrens sake, so they wont have to deal with pain, shame, and separation.


You don't seem to be sure about things at all. You even hired a maid service to come in at one point? That was sweet.


I don't know what to say, maybe if you knew what you wanted it would help. Reguardless of what you want there still is a responsibility to your family.

I think you meant to say "don't yell or show discord." But even still, your kids aren't dumb or blind. If two parents don't get along, EVERYTHING they do shouts it out.

I don't remember my parents ever being affectionate with one another. I mean truly affectionate. I remember an occasional peck on the cheek or the mumbled endearment, but never the true "I love you, honey" or any of the signs that my folks truly loved one another.

When they divorced after 36 years and the kids (us) had grown into adults, no one was really shaken by it. After all, they had never modeled loving behavior to us, so how was this any different?

On the other hand, one of the things that made WW and me stand out to both family and friends was that we always held hands (even during A.A. meetings!) smooched in public (oh, my college proctors would be so upset!) and openly seemed to delight in each other's presence. At times our kids (hers and mine) would seem to become embarrassed by the attention we lavished on each other. This is one reason the A so turned my world upside down.

Kids KNOW. If you think they have to be told EVERYTHING then you have a lower opinion of children than I do (and sorry if that's a DJ).

I know what you mean Fred. Same thing at my house when i was a kid.

Sort,

your right I don't know what to do. Up until the affair was exposed she was an a**. Now she's changed,matured and apparently knows what love is and what a marriage is supposed to look like.

If it wasn't for the kids and other outside factors like family I WOULD NOT BE HERE. I know that without a shadow of a doubt.
Unless I say I don't give a hoot about anyone or anybody I am stuck...

Another note, My Godfather has been living with us for the last 5 years and the A had been going even with him here. Such gall and stupidity...

Too soon to determine this. She hasn't done anything to prove this and she hasn't earned it. Have you read the article below? It's a good article on just compensation...

Why We Can't Forgive and Forget

Gg

Your right Fred.
I am staying and trying to make it work for the better and truly have a loving M relationship for everyone but I am having a hard time letting her love me after what happened. Not just the A but even how she was prior.

Thanks GG,

I think I am the fool that gives the $10,000 even though the other person hasn't earned it...

What other's know of me is that I give too a fault..

I need some to setup some boundries to say no and let me people go through what they have to...

Sort,
We are in MC and in the Love and Respect with peers from church. To me it seems like pushing the cart before the horse..
I am still bruised from it all and everyone automatically expects for me to just get over the A and move forward.

Crusade,
There is a response Harley wrote to a WW. You might want to print it out and give it to your WW.

Harley Rules for WW

While you take you time to heal and think - your WW could follow the rules Harley suggests. At the very least she can start modeling behavior which is good for the kids to see, for now anyway.

Gg

Ppl would say that of me too.
You are talking about it Crusade so thats a start.

Thats what we are here for. To reason with you.

Thanks Sort,

It helps me a alot to talk it through with people who have been there. I want to make the wise decision not just the right one but in the end I do want Love to prevail...I just don't know if the knife wound is too deep.
My FWW told me she knew the consequence of her actions but she still chose to do it..this is so far the worst betrayal I have experienced and by the one who is vowed to love you the most and guard my heart...

I promised Pariah I would not post here anymore because the only affair I have been involved in is when a long time boyfriend cheated on me. It was a 14 year relationship but it has nothing to compare with a marriage.

Anyway. I got a thought for you Crusade. What if your wife treated you a little badly for your entire marriage. What if she took you kind of for granted and was slightly difficult to live with all these years.

THEN comes her affair.

You could put up with the bad way she treated you all these years and you have. But the affair is too much. Now you have the full picture. A wife that takes you for granted for many years and goes so far as to have an affair.

Maybe it is not the affair you are trying to get past, maybe it is her whole personality. Now you have seen the truth of who she is and how far she will go to satisfy her selfish self....

And it is a picture of someone you would not like, do not like.

If you are married to a person you do not like, even if you recently found that out, that is something that is hard to get over.

What you may be getting over is not only her betrayal but all the hurts that came before it.

Looking at it this way, it is no wonder you cannot quickly recover. In fact, perhaps part of your mind is asking< "Do I want this woman now that I know how far she will go to indulger her own selfishness at my expense?"

You have an inner battle going on and I can imagine how exhausting it is. It will take time not only to heal but to have this inner battle resolve itself. When it resolves itself, into what you decide to do with the marriage and what direction you will be taking based on what you know about your wifes character now, then you will feel much better.

I would start looking at the wife and see if her character is good now or warrants keeping the marriage. See if you like the dynamic of your marriage and if you want to change some things. Or if you can change things.

Good luck,, you can do it. There are just a lot of complex things to deal with that your mind is chewing on. Give your mind time to chew and maybe get some IC for yourself to help you work it out.

dang Bubbles,
That makes perfect sense!!

I am trying to force myself love a woman whose character I do not like or disliked from the very beginning. No wonder my heart is not moved in anyway with her attempts to R. My heart is so callus towards her.

My heart is so callus towards her

Correction..callus from accepting love or affection from her..

@Crusade7,

While I understand the desire to say that you never liked your spouse, I think it's worthwhile to mention that Dr. Harley's program builds love in a marriage regardless of history, reasons for marrying, and more. If your goal is to build romantic love so that you can have a happy marriage, whether or not you really liked her before is irrelevant. You can fall in love again and enjoy the heck out of each other if you and your spouse both follow the Four Rules for a Successful Marriage.

Crusade,

Ok, I am going to be really blunt with you. Cat is right women often lose respect for men who don't act like men. What the heck does that mean? It means within their cultural expectations they may expect men to be kind, loving, and supply financial support, but they don't want competition in the housework department.

You have painted yourself into an interesting corner, and you are the one holding the bucket and the paint brush not your W.

You say her family will disown her. You say it will bring shame on her. You say she understood the consequences and still did it. And then you say Well DUH!

You also said she did not treat you with respect or kindness or love BEFORE the affair. While I don't exactly know what culture you are talking about, you said Asian, I will tell you I don't know of a single culture where her behavior would be accepted, tolerated or without shame. Do YOU??

You did not answer my previous questions and based on what you have said she has no plan to protect you, the marriage, JUST HERSELF. She is doing this so she does not endure the consequences of her actions and YET, she is not healing you. She is not seeing what she has done as something really bad, other than the consequences. And that is the point isn't it???

People who only act if there are strong consequences are not people who act out of love, kindness, respect for themselves or their spouse. A test of ones character is what they will do when no one is watching.

You don't like her character, why would you force yourself to love it? You don't respect her approach to life, why would you love it?

Crusade, your excuse that your culture makes this hard is just that an excuse. You need to man up and decide what is acceptable in your life and what is not. So far you are the one without boundaries not your W.

Oh and in case you are wondering, I AM telling you to divorce her...until and unless she starts to act out of love and not fear. That starts with her telling her family or you telling her family what she has done. She might be mad if you do, but will she still want to stay with you if you do? You see if her family knows, then the fear of exposure is gone. The leverage is gone. She now faces her consequences and then you will see what her decisions are like.

Your children need to know how to address this stuff. You mentioned her father having affairs and her mother putting up with it, I believe. No matter who, if that is the case, then are you surprised that the lesson she learned is that it is alright to do this? What lesson do you want to teach your children??? How do you want them to act when they grow up? Do you want them to think that their mother's morals are just fine??

What may well be best for this family is a strong dose of honesty.

Please think about it.

God Bless,

JL

JL,

I appreciate you being frank.

I have made the decision awhile ago to try work on this M becasue it was the wise thing to do. Now, a year later, I doubt I can go on like this becasue my heart is not engaging to everything she is doing right. Should I just make the decision to activly wait it out in trying to trust my W with my heart and life or should I just quit now becuase the damage has been done. I say activly waiting becuase during this time we are trying to meet each other's EN, counsiling, Accountabliltiy.


What steps has she made? I like to believe she has been open book. She has given me all her passwords, phone records and I have not doubt she is in contact with the OM for over a year. The last day she had contact with OM was the day after he left telling him to NC. She has been in counsiling. She has been nurturing. She has been trying to be much more plesant to be around. She has been trying to change the her selfish ways.

Can you explain on what steps she needs to show to protect our marriage and me? The only thing she has not done is tell her family.

Thanks

JL,

I also don't know what I want from my W anymore. I been self sufficent all this time that I didn't need to go to her for EN. What can she offer me now?
Love? I lived it without it for so long I don't know how to accept it anymore. I won't be truly happy unless I am willing to tust someone with my needs, wants, fears and dreams...I don;t know if my FWW can offer that anymore or if I want to accept that from her.

The wise thing would be to suck it up and continue in the marriage and try to be truly happy. This would require the most effort, riskiest venture and possibly the most rewarding.
But if am not able to allow my FWW to love me than D is the only other option. This D option is the scariest becasue of the the unknown.

I really do appreciate everyone's wise counsel and patience in helping me sort this through.

If I understand correctly, it takes most marriages around 2 years to fully recover. I'd hold off on planning for any drastic changes until then.

Typically, resentment is triggered when your spouse treats you in a way that reminds you of the affair. Have the two of you thoroughly analyzed what Love Busters you're engaging in toward one another? What about evaluating how well you are meeting one another's most important emotional needs?

I 2nd what JL said and CRusade it is very hard to live with someone you don't trust anymore.

Please be careful with your decision and the future of your childrens lives. I don't know if it would be posible for me to get over what you have been thru but even so, the trust would probably never return. Do you want to trust her with your life? With your childrens lives?

I understand we need to forgive and move on when our children make bad choices but this is supposed to
be an adult. If my late wife,(who had affairs with both drugs and OM), had done someone in my house, I would have freaked as well as been crushed. She knew the differance between right and wrong and chose to do wrong but outside the house.

We are really alone and we can only hope we pick good friends that will not waver. If you decide to end your marriage with her it would not mean that you didn't love her. It seem to me she only cares if she gets in trouble, not that she is hurting anyone.

I just got off the phone with my mom and asked her if should she blame me for leaving my FWW.
All I heard was to "stay for the kids"," You will ruining their lives", "you had the choice when this first happened but you chose to try and work it out", "it was partially your fault for allowing someone to live with you"..

If I decide to D I won't even have the freakin support of family..

Your mom is dead wrong. You have no part in her decision to cheat.
Look, it sounds like she has been a poor excuse as a partner for a long time.
Why not give her the chance to work the MB program. See if she has what it takes to be a decent, loving spouse.
If she is unwilling to make the effort, you have your answer. The kids will be alright, probably better off not witnessing a loveless marriage.

Thanks Z...Just pretty bumbed. Getting that response from your own mother is a huge blow.

You don't need their effing support.

If you decide to D, and they won't support you whether they agree with you or not, then they weren't much of a family to begin with.

Staying for the kids is dumb.

Crusade,

As you said you made the decision to try and work it out. You are a year into this, which as Barnboy points out is a tough place to be. However, you have also said many things that I think need to be addressed by you.

I am on your case and blunt because I think you are lying to yourself and to your W. You cannot make a good decision until you face the reality of your situation. You apparently not articulating to your W what you are saying to us, and I would strongly recommend counseling where you can express what you have to us. Your marriage has little chance unless and until you can address the following things.

Is she trying or is she succeeding?? If she is trying but not succeeding, you need to tell her this.

She could offer what she has never offered before, love, care, protection, and friendship. That is what she could offer. Do you absolutely need them? Not like air, food, water, but they would make your life nice. On the other hand, what she has given you so far you DEFINETLY don't need. You don't need lies, you don't need cheating, you don't need disrespect, you don't need an enemy.

Have you told her or a counselor this? If not you should. Step one she has to be able to offer it, step two you need to be able to accept it, but frankly you won't be able to accept it until you feel safe. You don't now.

I don't know if our counsel and most particularly mine is wise or not. But, I think you are again confusing yourself. It would not be a wise thing to suck it up, if you feell and act like you are now. Your children would learn a terrible lesson.

What good could come of this? Let's consider that for a moment. If your W actually changed and became a loving and trustworthy woman, and you grow and can be the husband she needs as well, then the kids learn: forgiveness, they learn to keep trying, they learn that people can change and learn from their mistakes, they learn that love can be rebuilt, etc.
If your W really does not change much, they learn what a miserable marriage really is. They learn that cheating has no punishment/consequences, just as your WW did. They learn that marriage is supposed to be a life sentence to misery. They learn that people in marriages are unhappy. They learn many things and most of them are negative. You and your W need to discuss this.

First, you don't know if you will or will not have support from your family. That is an assumption that you don't have data for. Your mom (don't you just love them?) is thinking of the kids first. but she is wrong about you ruining their lives, it is your W. I presume she knows about your W's affair. Just because you tried and are trying to save the marriage doesn't mean that the fault of its dissolution shifts to being yours. You are not at fault for her affair. You are not at fault if you cannot rebuild what was destroyed. It is not your fault that your W cannot "make up" for what she has done, both before the affair, during the affair and even after the affair. Somethings get broken and they cannot be fixed, although the information and approaches on this site give you the best chance for that.

Crusade, you are busy avoiding the big issues and they are not what your Mom thinks, they are not what her inlaws think, and they really are not tied to protecting your children as you will protect them as best you can. The issue is you and your W, and ultimately what is best for the children. She has not set a good example for what a marriage is or should be. Staying and enforcing this example is not best for your children. Divorcing is also not good for kids in general. The only win-win is from big changes in your W and you healing. That is what you two need to be focusing on.

God Bless,
JL

Mr Crusade, think about this. Your MOTHER has probably had a lot of influence on your life. Even now, she calls the shots as to weather you will leave your wife or stay.

NOW, your wife has had influence on you as you cooked, cleaned and asked very little of her in the marriage.

Do you see a similarity?

If you knew what a woman should and could be like (loving, giving, caring, warm, hard working, contributing, non cheating) then you would be amazed.

These nice woman ARE NOT LIKE YOUR MOTHER
These nice woman ARE NOT LIKE YOUR WIFE

You have perhaps NOT experianced these great women in your life YET.

Look at your mother, observe your wife. See where you have been controlled by these woman. All your life.

Here's a little blurb from my situation that may help you.
My XWW was never affectionate or supportive or very nice to me. This was true pretty much from early in in the marriage, but I wanted the relationship to work out so badly, I hung in and kept trying.
Toward the end of our marriage, with the cheating in place, but unknown to me, she got even more abusive. She did something that hurt me incredibly and, eventually, after trying to suck it up for a long time, I went to her and told her how badly she had hurt me(this was before discovering her cheating and was something else, entirely).
Her response was very telling. She just looked at me like i was a bug and said " I don't care at all how you feel."

I realted this to my therapist, who I began seeing after the affair and after she moved out to be with the OM. He said to me " Zelmo, for once she was telling you the truth."

See, I had been in denial a very long time, thinking if I could just do things differently, come up with the right formula or avoid doing whatever it was(pretty much everything) that was pissing her off, things would improve.
It's hard to be objective about oneself. But, I am pretty sure that just about everyone that knows me IRL thinks pretty highly of me. I have a lot of friends and am like by just about all the lawyers and judges I deal with. But, my XWW really disliked me and made it apparent from shortly after we got married. Up to that point, she seeemed to really like me. It was like a light switch was flipped after enmenshment.

So, take a good hard look and try to be honest. Even if there had been no infidelity , did she act lovingly toward you. It sounds like you were starving for a long time. This won't change unless she gets a lot of help for her brokeness.

For once I agree with Zelmo. Why not follow one of the Harley's recommended courses to restore your love together?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi9000_courses.html

To follow the home-study course using the 3 books costs less than $50 from amazon.com. FWW and I read from them once a week, one chapter each time. The conversations we had surrounding the discussion questions initially felt very awkward, but now I look forward and relish those opportunities to have very frank discussions about our relationship... and then spend the rest of the week just enjoying one another's company.

All sound advice Crusade. You are not teaching your children the most important thing they can ever learn.
You must SHOW them that love is an action. You must SHOW them that love is not just a chore, its a decision to act fearlessly to stand up for truth. You must SHOW them that you demand respect for YOUR actions of love.

I stayed in a marriage that had so many problems because I also felt that it would be better for my children. My children saw the good side of my wife and watched her degrade into an emotional disaster because of denial. In my case I tried to help her and forgave over and over untill so much time went by the issues that effected my wife wore me down and I lost my own self-respect. It WILL wear you down Crusade. You are only human. You WILL lose perspective and respect for yourself and the respect of others

Now I have no carreer, broke, disabled and am trying to salvage my life. I will be OK but I would not have to settle for OK if I had let God deal with my wifes problems. What I realize now is that I would have been better off letting her die in the streets with her stubborness. God was allways there for her it was her mental issues that HE wanted to help her with.

You need help understanding what mercy is sir, You are not her saviour, You are tainted with some misconception that you can fix this without allowing her to feel the consequences for her actions. You will probably end up alone and if you keep taking the blame, People, including your children, will let you take it. They are allways looking for a scapegoat.

Do you really think you can bear all the sins of your wife? I will tell you that you cannot and you are not respecting her OR loving her if you try. You can only do your part and trust God to do his part.

Listen to JL, You both need to work on your own stuff Crusade. Its NEVER hopeless but you have to live in reality. You are hurting and confused. You need time to process your feelings. You absolutly need counselling for yourself and then when you are balanced, only then, will you be able to decide if WW is willing and ABLE to work on recovery.

Don't be the whipping boy, you have been duped into thinking that is love.

JL,

The honest truth is I don't want the M. I been trying to fight it so much to make myself believe that I should for the sake of everybody but in my heart I don't. I gave up long time ago trying to encourage be W into a mature , loving woman and what I got back was junk.
I didn't deserve any of the stuff that happened. Sortitout mentioned something that hit home. I have this Savior complex that I want to help everyone I meet and is in need not because I want anything back but I truely want to help them to get better.
I can't tell you how many people we have taken in our home since our & year marriage to help people out even when it may have been a inconveinence for us. I feel like a true act of love is to sacrifice how I feel and save my wife from the consequences she needs to face and in doing so hoping the action would bring out a true desire in me to R this M. I feel like such a failure in all of this becasue I am not able to fight through the A and fight for this M.

My two cents: you can't control her. She can't control you. But what you can do is express these feelings in a constructive way that gives a chance to your marriage.

Ultimately you're not feeling the love because the two of you aren't following the Four Rules for a Successful Marriage, and most likely she needs to step up her efforts for you to have a chance.

1. The rule of Care: Meet your spouse's most important emotional needs.
2. The rule of Protection: Avoid being the cause of your spouse's unhappiness.
3. The rule of Time: Spend your most enjoyable moments together (at least 15 hours per week; for a marriage nearing divorce, more like 20-35 hours per week is Dr. Harley's typical recommendation)
4. The rule of Honesty: Be radically honest about yourself with your spouse.

What's missing? What aren't you receiving from your spouse?

Barnboy,
I am still hurt, angry and very resentful. The A most likely would still have been going on under my own house if not by chance that I woke up to check on my wife.
Those on the board who have witnessed their WS A said they tried but M eventually failed.
Please please give me a example of someone who witnessed their WS's A with a friend, someone my kids called uncle, in their own home and gotten past the images and R their M.

The motivation for her change is becasue of fear and not of love. The motivation I stay is becasue of fear for the damage to the kids and not of love.

You should never make a decision this quickly. I've seen people flipflop 4 or 5 times in a month's time here. Promise yourself 6 months, if you can, before you make a decision. A lot can happen.

Cat,

I should give everyone a background.

Married 3/03
Son - 11/03
Daugter - 9/06

OM move in 4/08. EA started 7/08. PA started 8/08, D-Day 11/15/08
NC since 11/17/08

I stayed with some family freinds for 3 weeks but came home everyday to see the kids.
Eventually moved back in 12/1/08.

It's been over a year already and still dealing with the hurt everyday.

And I pull out the jack-of-all-trades card:

Call the Harleys. If you're seriously thinking about pulling out of the marriage even though the affair is over, it's the right time right now. A few thousand bucks for a bunch of phone sessions is way cheaper than a divorce, and even if you do divorce, you will leave knowing you did EVERYTHING you could have done.

Crusade,

If you are done, then you are done. It has been a year. This site is not a marriage at all costs site. It is designed for people to learn how to be in a good marriage and how to repair a badly damaged marriage. If you have given your all, then it is time for you consider ending it.

I will not fight you on that. You see no compelling reason to remain in a marriage, where your W has no respect for you. You see no compelling reason to believe she would not do this again. You are appalled that they would do this in your home and that you got to see it.

I suggest you talk with the Harley's as someone above just mentioned and that you speak with a lawyer as well.

JL

I agree with JL.

No one knows you better than yourself. If you know you're done then you're done for sure. Some say here sometimes the D is the R.

I like this to by Barnboy - something I strongly beleive in before anyone leaves a M.



Chances increase you won't have regrets.

Gg

Crusade you need time to figure it out. now that you are here after trying to fly solo for so long you will start to feel different.
Please don't think you have to act on things right now before you give yourself some more time.

Crusade,
I was wondering - is there anything that your WW could be doing that could change how you feel?

Gg

Good question

GG, Sort,

We actually talked about alot of things last night and she doesn't know what else she can do. She feel like we can't move forward into the healthy marriage until I am ready and healed up.
I told her the expectation that I have is able to feel safe to be open and honest around her without the fear of hurting her or feeling disrespected. I have tendacy to withdraw from arguments thinking I was doing the honarble thing and hoping to gain respect but I just grew more and more resentful towards her. If my W is able to change these things and make me feel safer there maybe a chance of a healthy marriage.
We also have to look into moving. I can't stand being in that house.

I would suggest looking into a therapist who specializes in teaching couples to learn how to communicate better. They can really help you learn how to interact in safe, healthy ways that you haven't done before. This would help stave off potential future problems, keep you both O&H, and hopeful.

Well. What could she do to help you get over it? Thats kinda what im askin. She doesn'y know what she can do? Um ..just a guess but .. If she gave herself to you more than she ever did to the other guy.. wouldn't that help?
Forgive me if i missed it if this has already been addressed.

She feels like we can't move forward into the healthy marriage until I am ready and healed up. seems like she is shifting majority of blame on you still

Just my opinion

You still out here Crusade? Hows it going?

Hi Sort,

I am still around. Been lurking around alot and reading other people heartbreaks and recovery's.

I am still in the marriage and we are both trying to work on this it's just an up and down emotional roller coaster at times.

The pain still & vivid images still haunt me and I am praying that I am making the right decision in staying and trying and not wasting years trying to fix something that is too broken. I know it that may sound selfish but I do want happiness, security, love.

My FWW is doing EVERYTHING possible in trying to make me feel safe in the process but I hit a brick wall when it comes to the intimacy and SF part. Most times I am fighting the images in the SF acts.

Did you guys get the books and /or sign up counselling? It will make a world of differeance in how fast and how well you recover.

Hang in there Guys

Move out of that house and neighbourhood. They are both huge triggers.

Not sure if this has already been suggested .....

Managing Memories by Mark1952

On the first page of this thread c7 was told to move.

He still is triggering and in a stalled recovery.

Though he will not sell the house and move far away from the OM.

c7 is getting to do what he wants, to wallow in trigger land.

Road,

I am not trying to wallow in trigger land. OM moved 7 states away the day after. He has contacted FWW twice and both times she told me immadiately.

One poster said that If I can't move to get rid of the furniture which we both have done. The suggestion of the move was made last month and we are willing to move and looking somewhere in the same town that fits our price range.

Please inquire about the facts before assuming.

Sort,

We got Her Needs, His Need and we are going to counseling one a week. They have both been helpful.

Hi Vittoria,

This has been suggested last month and we are in the process of looking at other neighborhoods in our city.

Thanks

c7

What has been done to prevent OM from breaking NC?

Was a NC letter sent?

How about an RO?

Were OM's email address/es block?

How long has it been since D day?

Did you and WW get new phone numbers, block OM's numbers?

Same with your emails, get new ones?

c7

Every day you get up walk down your stairs to start your day you have to walk right through the very place your world feel apart.

Very hard to put this affair in the past when living that way.

Haven't read the entire thread, but , unless there has been some threat, I doubt you could get an RO.

Not a lawyer. But when you send a NC letter and the OM keeps on contactig that's harrassment. RO to protect from harrasment.

Not allowed to harass people.

IMO, most judges would tell you to buzz off with this type of deal.

I've seen it here over the years.

Worth a try, then. But, I bet most judges will tell you to get a life. Thye just do not care about this stuff.

I know that I have heard two things compared to the loss of someone you love by death from sources out here in the world.

1. Loss of someone by betrayal, desertion, divorce, adultry

2. Moving to a new home, community, school, job.

Both are supposed to be close to dealing with a death.

Going by that philosophy it might be very true that moving will help you guys heal. The house will be a big challange for you to deal with but not imppossible.

Keep working with counselling and both of you spending time together.

Someone said its not a sprint, its a marathon, enjoy the run.

Hey Road,

D-Day was 15 months ago and the last contact was 10 months ago with a brief text sent to FWW comenting on recent FB picture with both of us. My W told me told me as soon as the text came in and I commuicated directly to OM that he can have no contact with this family ever again.

I have all of FWW wife's email, FB, Phone passwords and I have not come across anything questionable since D-DAY.

Hey Sort,

Thanks for the encouragement.

NP

Keep us posted OK ?

I know it's been months but here's an update.

I made the decision to stay in the marriage and work on it. We just moved into a new house 3 weeks ago.
My FWW has not had any contact with OM since D-Day which was back in November of '08.

She has made numerous changes in trying to proect me and our marriage from this ever happening again.
I wish I could say that don't re-live the incident but I don't think ever can forget about it. But every time does come to memory or have questions I feel guilty and ashamed of even thinking the thought or not having the strentgh to forget.
I am really good at suppressing my emotions and reactions which I guess could be a huge control issue.

C7:

I am almost 5 years into my Dday. The day that my BW finanlly learned the truth about me.

Your no stronger or weaker than others. The "strong silent" type was whacked for a number of reasons. We all have our thoughts that we have to deal with.

However, you are doing the right things. She has changed her behaviors to protect you, and you have moved from that house. These triggers will fade. The most vivid ones will take longer, and be very difficult to fade. But having a Wife who is protecting YOU and making you feel safe will go a long way.

LG

Imagine,

Yes, the moving out was result of the discussion here. We still have the old house on the market but I am beleiving that the move had to be made for my sanity in this marriage.

LG,

Thanks for that encouragement.

Trying to battle the jealousy, insecurities, self worth internally is so emotionally draining.
How do I buid the confidence again? How do I stop comparing my self? How do I stop feeling like I am entitled?