Currently I'm supervising an employee involved in what appears to be an emotional affair with an individual not at our workplace. This employee spends time discussing her relationship with her 'friend' and her husbands suspicions regarding this relationship while at work. This has become a distraction to her collegues and is offensive to the collegue whom reported her activity to me. Of course this could be classified as misconduct in terms of the lost productivity. I'm trying to come up with the best way to approach this matter. There's an edginess to the whole thing just because she is speaking to her collegues in confidence and its her personal business. Still, she is making eveyone complicit in her own deception too and putting all htis on company time. Goodness. Any thoughts?

Let me just say, as the BW of a WS who had an EA with a co-worker, i would have appreciated anyone stepping in and saying something to either him or both of them. Exposure, as you will see if you stay on this site seems to be the fastest and best way to shed light on something that should not be happening.

They were able to sit across from each other, go to lunch, IM, E-mail on company time using company stuff. Socializing in broad daylight given free reign for their "relationship" to evolve.

As a supervisor, if you know this is happening, at the very least you can call her into your office and make it clear that this is unacceptable on company time. Who knows you just might throw a monkey wrench in this relationship....giving the BS a chance to reclaim whats theirs or get rid of something that should not be.

Evil prevails when good men/women do nothing......don't be one of those people.

You're going to get a lot of advice here, but mine is very simple: coordinate any actions you take via Human Resources and your legal department. I am not a lawyer, and very few here are.

First, establish if you are in an at-will state or not. If your state is at-will, the way my employer typically handles firings is that they don't fire the employee at all! They note the poor performance or reported misbehavior, then when they have a round of layoffs those individuals are laid off along with many other people. As far as the employer and the law are concerned, it's a simple reduction in force. They give the employee(s) a very generous severance package in exchange for an agreement never to sue regarding the discharge, along with a clause that if the employee ever does sue then the severance is forfeit and it's a breach of contract, then everybody moves on with their lives.

If it's a union contract or a non-at-will state, laws vary substantially and you may need to provide cause. But at the very least, open flirtation, sexual behavior, and excess conversation affecting their productivity can be noted and a warning given to that effect if it's hurting their work performance. Make sure that you make no moral judgments, however. Just note the impact on their work, and possible violations of guidelines in your Employee Handbook.

TC, if this was my direct report I would write her up for conducting her affair using workplace resources. [phone, computer, etc.] Can you make such a case? I would discuss the use of company resources to conduct her affair on company time and get this in her permanent file. Document everything and have this discussion with your HR Director present.

If this was my employee, I would start this process as a first step in MANAGING HER OUT. She is trouble because cheaters can't be trusted. After you write her up, I would then watch her like a hawk to find problems. [document that you are watching others at the same time too, so it can't be said you were gunning for her]

Secondly, she should be told that her open affair is offensive and distracting to fellow employees. [she needs to hear this] This becomes a serious morale issue when employees have to watch a fellow employee conduct an affair while on the job. It is morally offensive to most people, which precludes her from the team. Trust is a requisite of being part of an effective team, and when she demonstrates a lack of integrity, she affects how the team operates. Integrity is an essential competency in teamwork.

What are your company policies about workplace affairs in general? [I realize this does not meet the definition of workplace affair] What she needs to know is that many employers will not tolerate cheating in the workplace because of the reasons I gave above, and more importantly, because CHEATERS CANNOT BE TRUSTED. My current company and the past one, for example, had/have policies against workplace affairs because they do not want to employ cheaters, for one reason. Have a workplace affair and you will be escorted off the premises by an armed security guard. [both are Fortune 500 companies]

This moron has likely ruined her career by being so stupidly flagrant about her adultery. It is my experience that most hiring managers will not touch a cheater with a 10' pole.

p.s. I sent Britsbrat an email; she is a corporate attorney and this is her specialty.

I'm soooo appreciative of your responses here. I did not sign on her because of this issue. But this issue is pressing on me I decided to ask you.

I am a small business owner. This means I'm HR director and everything in between. Before I became aware this particular employee was engaing in this affair, she had shown other types of misbehavior and abuses. Its been a difficult situation because I only came back into manging my husbands employees recently after I was away a long time. In this time frame, this employee and others were undermanaged, wondered from following our policies etc and of course my hubby did not document. So I'm trying to decrease risks before I move this employee out of our business. I recognize her as a cheater and this is only one facet of how she cheats.

At any rate, I recently made it policy employees cannot have personal cellphones out or around our computers or even on their persons during work hours due to provacy concerns. Just last week she was likely late back from lunch because she spent the lunch hour texting on her own cellphone to this guy. When she returned late she claimed she clocked in at another work station and began working from another area. There are no witnesses. I'm certain she is disceiving us and it angers me and certainly breaks my heart for her family which of course is not my problem.

I'm having significant difficulty managing. I'm still fairly disabled and struggling. This leaves us vulnerable to be manipulated.

Our policies simply discuss integrity and honesty in general in terms of professional conduct.

terracotta, it will be important to document any performance issues and manage her out on that basis. In my company, and the previous one, we have a 3 strikes and you are out policy, all based on performance.

So, if she is out in the parking lot texting her lover when she should be at work on time, I would document and write that up. If you have evidence she is emailing or IMimg him from a work computer, then print up screen shots.

Every time she breaks a rule, write her up and keep a paper trail. Let her know each time that continued behavior could lead to termination. Watch her like a hawk, but make sure you document your observance of other employees too.

Then when she continues to break rules, terminate her. HOWEVER, in my experience as a hiring manager, just this process motivates bad employees to quit. A bad employee will deeply resent you watching closely and discussing their performance with them rather than change.

Barnboy,
We typically can't send people on in mass lay-offs w/big severance deals. We have to go toe to toe. We are an at will state and have an at will agreement signed by each employee. I've given this employee three very strong counseling memos in the past few months covering misconduct and poor performance issues. I've tried to rehab her. She does feel I'm gunning for her and has said so. The thing is she has been with us for ten years and my husband did not document or measure her performance or lack of. I've decided to initiate performance reviews for all staff within the begining of the year and clear up any issues I need to clear up with oter employees as well. this will help the process in moving htis employee along I'm hoping.

I appreciate everyones concern and I certainly empathize with anyone whom has had their spouse cheat while those around stood back and watched their pain. Know you are witnessing a employer whom is trying to confront this as well as I can.

MelodyLane~
I've made some VERY strong counseling sessions that would normally send most folks packing. This employee hangs on. Makes changes. Thanks me for enlightening her. Then starts some other form of misconduct or poor perfromanace! I just learned the notion of writing things up in categories rather then ie 'attendance problem' make it a 'minor misconduct' problem so if they have 3 minor misconduct problem --out they go. Rather then two attendence problems and the some other misconduct issue. This would move things along faster. I think I'm paying her too much! I even demoted her last year when I returned and decreased her pay $3 per hour. Never did that before, but like I said nothing has worked.

Just fire her and replace her with someone who wants to work.

terracota,

Being an employer in an At-Will state give you the ability to fire this individual with out reason. You can simply dismiss her and ask her to leave. She will be eligable for unemployment benefits unless you have cause to dismiss that would make her ineligable.

It really is that simple. I also own a small business in an At-Will state and have found it necessary to dismiss many people through the years. As long as you have a history of reprimands in her file, you should have no problem if you are challenged.

She needs to go!

I'm with tst on this one in this case. Take advantage of at-will status and fill the position with someone else.

If you don't challenge the unemployment claim, the former employee will have little reason to try to sue you. If you do challenge the unemployment claim, just make double-sure you've crossed your T's, dotted your I's, and (for everybody's sake) consulted with your attorney to make sure you are covered.

Talk to the person who handles your IT. He/she can most likely get you copies of the employees e-mail and IM transactions from her work computer. There is most likely something in there that will be enough for termination... usually is.

There's usually enough to can someone for inappropriate use of computer resources even if they are otherwise an exemplary employee. My participation here during work hours during the week would qualify, even though I get done everything I need to get done. It's not my fault if I can get the job done in 1/10th the time that it would take some other people

But anyway, just saying there's usually enough to hang anybody with, regardless of the reason for investigating.

We've really got an unhealthy dependence on this employee. Its going to place us in another type of hardship to set her free. Its time to move forward and not reinforce these bad conduct issues. Still, at-will policies do not protect as they once did. Can't hide behind at-will policies these days. Need to have documentation, etc. If I'd have let this person go previously we'd been at greater risk. I'll likely have this managed shortly.

It sounds like you're aware that this is a poor business position to be in irrespective of whether the employee is engaged in activities that are contrary to company policies.

I recall there was a book that proclaimed, "Find anyone in your company who is irreplaceable and fire them immediately." Any employee who has that much sway over your company's well-being is a hazard to the company.

So I went about writing a memo to this employee regarding her distracting inappropriate behaviour and everything else we've been discussing here. I reviewed it with my husband. He said he felt just as guilty. At first he wasn't sure of all the proclaimations. He then admitted to being involved in an emotional affair where he works out.(gym) He claims he has not shared his feeling with this person or done anything but talk with this woman. I'd been suspicious now for a couple months. What a nightmare. We'll have been married thirty years this month. I'm really worried. I'm glad he told me though. Still, he does not want to end contact with her or this place where he goes to practice karate. He's addicted. He's confused. He's not sure he wants to work on "us." He seems a bit resigned to our failure. Obviously I've not been meeting his needs but he does not want to express them or tell me what he needs and wants from me. I'm suppose to be a really good guesser. He's always been closed like that.

I am wondering how to handle this situation given he's not physically involved or so he claims. Still, I feel really hurt and betrayed nevertheless. He says he's really sorry. He says he loves me but is not in love with me. (I keep hearing that line on these sites) He says I'm a very beautiful woman and a great person. He admits to having attractions towards other women in the past when he's been away on hiking trips etc but did not act upon. He seemed to want to confess this as though this is proof we're perhaps not right for one another. I keep telling him we need to place effort into ourselves and then we will be right for one another. He spends riduculous amounts of time at the gym and work.

Later this AM I called him at the office and told him he was addicted and this person was always going to be a positive because he was not experiencing normal life ups and downs with her. I also told him he was addicted to this individuala nd he needed to stop all contact.
I also told him if he acted upon his feelings it could have devistating effects on our daughter whom is in the process of recoverying from her BF infidelity and thier break-up. I told him I recognize he is a man and has needs and I want to be able to help him with those needs.

Anything else guys? I'm wondering if I need to cut him off if he decides to continue to go to this gym or meet up witht his person. I told him this person will always be an issue for him because she has lots of positive points in his bank that don't go away. On the other hand here I am dealing with all the unpositive aspects to our existence ie employee issues etc.

I could really use some support if possible.

I'm so sorry TC. I don't have any advice, but I would suggest you start a new thread -- you will probably get more responses if people know that *you* need support (and not just for the employee situation).

@terracotta Interesting to me that you posted your subsequent experience. I've used a similar technique a number of times: talk about the experience of a friend or relative as an introduction to a difficult topic with my spouse.


So he has shared with you that he's in love with a woman from the gym, but he claims he has not shared this fact with her, correct?


Of course he doesn't. No wayward ever does. They will always try to negotiate some way of keeping the other person in your life, whether because the affair is "emotional but not physical" or "physical but not emotional" or some other special circumstance to justify why this relationship should be treated differently than any other affair.

If he truly hasn't admitted his feelings for her, you can nip this crush in the bud. However, recognize there's something like a 9 in 10 chance he's lying to you about it. Waywards lie and admit to as little as possible to appear to be truthful. This is often called "trickle truth" and is brutal on a betrayed spouse.

Expect that, however far he's said it's gone, it's probably gone AT LEAST one step beyond that. My wife had a long-distance EA for several months but said it was never physical... and it was a few months into recovery when she finally admitted they had kissed and groped each other. I still have to trust that it didn't go farther than that.

Anyway, just plan on the probability he's lying about how involved he is or isn't. Don't beat him over the head with it, but just expect it, anticipate it, and emotionally ready yourself for the probability that it's gone way farther than he admits.


Once again, every wayward acts like this. If it's possible to separate him and the other woman, he'll get over this withdrawal... but in the post-D-Day drama, my wife thought our marriage was over. She said "I never believed I could be the one to ruin a perfectly good marriage."

It's not ruined, just damaged. The two of you can repair it if specific steps are taken.

Suggestion: Start reading every article linked from this page: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html


Sure, you owe 50% of the blame for the condition of the relationship prior to his affair. But DO NOT ALLOW YOURSELF TO BE BLAMED FOR HIS AFFAIR. That was 100% his CHOICE. He could have dealt with this reasonably, come to you honestly, expressed his needs, and you could have dealt with it like adults. Instead, he chose to associate with another woman and become infatuated with her instead.

That's a teenage way of handling things. Adults communicate. So don't let him blame you for not meeting his needs... he has an obligation to communicate those effectively until you can meet them!


Treat it like any other affair, because that's exactly what it will become if it's not stopped (and, as I mentioned earlier, probably what it already is but he's lying about it). Read up on "Plan A" and "Plan B". Set a time-limit for how long you can remain mentally healthy while letting your Giver control your actions without psychological damage to yourself. Show him how good he has it, that you're willing to change and better meet his needs, but set an end-date after which that is completely cut off if he does not separate from the other woman.

Go buy a copy of "Surviving An Affair" by Willard Harley and Jennifer Harley Chalmers. It's your bible to get through this right now. Get that copy TODAY; the next few days are critical to establishing how you're going to get through this.


Of course you do! He created this fantasy infatuation, lied to you about it for however long it's been going on, is breaking the one promise he made when you married, and by his statements wants to continue breaking his marriage vows regardless of your feelings! You have a right to feel hurt and betrayed!


ILYBINILWY. Yep. Sorry, but when I hear that line, I call "BS" on the relationship not having gotten physical with the other woman yet. It's a dead giveaway that he's infatuated with her, and men typically don't get infatuated unless there's sex involved.

Neither do women, really, but some do, thus the existence of EAs.


It's totally normal to be attracted to other people when you're married. A healthy person discusses the attraction with the spouse and resolves how to manage it together, typically by avoiding the person to whom they're attracted.


RED FLAG! RED FLAG! RED FLAG! My certainty has risen near 100% that this relationship isn't what he says it is!


Suggestion #1: Get advice directly from the Harleys, by either booking time with them or reading "Surviving An Affair" IMMEDIATELY.

Suggestion #2: Set an end-date by which you will no longer be playing nice with him. For men, Dr. Harley typically suggests 6 months if he does not know them; for women, 1 month.

Suggestion #3: Write down your "Plan A" on how you're going to meet his emotional needs, avoid Love-Busting him, and win him back from the other woman. Plan to keep revising this as time goes on, and remember the goal of Plan A is to persuade the wayward spouse to leave the lover.

Suggestion #4: Start writing down how you're going to handle Plan B if he doesn't cooperate and commit to No Contact For Life with the other woman. Figure out how you'll deal with finances.

Suggestion #5: Snoop your butt off. Computer keylogger. Spy on him at the gym. Bug his phone. Do whatever you can to prove and know without a doubt that he's banging this other woman right now... because based on your description, this sure as heck sounds like a "banging the chick in the car on breaks from work" relationship, not an "emotional affair" in which he hasn't confessed his feelings for the other woman yet...

Suggestion #6: Once you have a week or two of data on the true state of the relationship -- that is, snoop your butt off to be sure the affair is really there and needs to be busted up -- EXPOSE. Tell his mother and father. Tell his siblings. Tell your children. Tell all your friends. Enlist their support and ask them for their help and advice. Exposure to everybody who might have an interest in your spouse's affair is often the first step toward recovery.

I wouldn't expose yet, though... you don't know enough yet. You barely had your D-Day yesterday. Now is the time to dig, dig, dig, and find out if he's telling you the truth (he's probably not), and if not, exactly how involved he is. Get the evidence, and make sure you're totally sure about this before exposing.

You'll get a lot of advice about exposure.

Last note: By approaching the forum asking about your employees when in fact you suspected your husband the whole time, you're showing a clear tendency toward trying to manipulate things rather than address them directly. A big part of Dr. Harley's program for marital reconciliation is "Radical Honesty", and part of that is learning to deal with conflict directly but in a positive manner. You definitely have work to do on yourself, and you cannot do your husband's work for him.