LH,

I think you are making the right decision by going to plan B. It sounds as if you did a pretty good plan a when H was home on leave and returned from re-deployment.

My H contacted OW by email 15 months after the A ended. I basically wrote a plan B letter and told him that if he ever contacted OW again, I would divorce H (actually had an appt but cancelled it last minute) and I would never see or speak to him again. This last part really made him think about what he would be giving up. Since then, he has been on board with everything I laid out as a requirement for me to stay in the M. The biggest thing that H did (so far) was all the arrangements for attending the Jan MB weekend. Before this, I had been the one pushing and prodding for marital recovery and H was more or less along for the ride - sometimes on, sometimes off. Our situation is complicated by H's PTSD from two deployments - stuff that I had no idea had happened. I say all this only to highlight that after all the garbage our M has been through in the past 3 years, I believe recovery is possible. And I believe it is possible in your situation as well. Stay smart, make a plan and follow it.

Best wishes.

AM

PS. Don't assume there is no contact between H and OW. It does not have to face to face. It can be phone, email, looking at facebook. Your friend is right. It is an addiction. There is a older thread on the recovery forum that talks about managing triggers. It is a good one to read. Your H may or may not be in withdrawal. Also, get a trash bag and get rid of the "gifts" from OW that are in YOUR home. Don't let stuff from his A defile your marital space.

I know he only left 2 days ago. But one minute I seem ok and then the next I find myself falling apart.

He wants to talk about the "stuff" we own and who gets what. I told him we can do that through lawyers and that I would only talk to him if it was about putting the marriage back together. He thinks I am being stupid.

Am I being stupid for thinking he will come around and want to work things out?

I start counseling on Friday. I know I have to get myself right. I also know that one demand I am going to make is that he gets counseling and that we continue marriage counseling. We only went to 1 session and he said things aren't working! HELLO how can we work on putting our marriage back together if you only were here 3 weeks and with 1 session. He says things won't change, but I am depending on God and I know He can do all things!!

LH,

Did you take a look at the plan B letters? Usually, in the letter the betrayed spouse will identify an intermediary that can be the go-between to talk about the "stuff". Your H would like you to part as friends, be your buddy and friend, and maintain the illusion that everybody is all ok with what he is doing/has done.

MC does not work if a person is still in an affair. There needs to be no contact first and I would bet money your H as been talking to or emailing the OW.

Once again, do you know who she is? Is she married? If so, please, please expose the A to her H. He has a right to know what is happening in his marriage. Also, it gives another set of eyes on the A to help crush it. In my case, the OW was an NCO who had had at least three affairs that her H knew about. Her most recent one before my H was a two star general. When her H found out, both the OW and general begged OWH to remain silent, which he did. If only he had exposed the A to the command, I think my H would have never allowed himself to become involved with a known adulteress. As it was, she lied to my H, sucked him into the A (he went very along very willingly, falling head over heals, becoming VERY addicted to this woman). Maybe, I am wrong. But now, after both H and OW received article 15's, OW still works at the same place, but I really doubt she will engage in another workplace A. So, at least someone else's marriage has been protected.

AM

Remember, always, that Dr. Harley usually names an active, ongoing affair as the reason for spouses moving out. His 35 years of experience informs that choice, and he's nearly always right. If a spouse wants to move out, absent substance or physical abuse, they are making space for another person in their lives, and trying to dodge the guilt living with their spouse would induce.

Your husband is almost certainly lying to you about the affair with the other woman being over. He moved out to spend more time with her. Period. No question, argument is over.

If you grasp that the affair is running, that he had sex with her TODAY, probably THIS MORNING, does that change your perspective on how to fight for your marriage?

He's moved out. Your chances of recovering your marriage are staggeringly low. What plan are you following to try to leverage that small opportunity into recovery? Plan A? Plan B? Something else?

I do know who she is. I know her and her husband split up before she deployed. I am not sure if they are D. She contacted me and reveiled so much to me, like she didn't know my WS was married he never "advertised" it. She said when she found out he told her he was leaving me.

He never intended on me finding out about the A. He said he was going to come and leave the A behind and hoped that she would go away. I don't know what to beleive.

I have not talked to him since yesterday and really don't want to, but for Plan B to work do I write him a letter now (only after 2 days) or do I wait longer?

As long as I was at work today I felt good about everything, but being at home I find myself sobbing. I hate for my children to see me like this. I need to be strong for them.

He was only gone a week before he called crying, begging to come home, which like I said only lasted 3 weeks. I truly want my marriage to work, but some people on here have said that if he has moved out there is little hope to work things out. The OW lives in another state, pretty far from us. It would be unlikely that they will see each other. I do know it is not impossible that they can communicate by phone or email.

LH,

You know you can't believe anything the OW says. People in affairs are LIARS and OW certainly has a reason to make you believe that she is already separated and that your H told her he was leaving you. Might be true, but probably NOT. The people in affairs make this stuff up to keep the affair going, break up the other person's marriage etc. There are many, many stories on here of betrayed spouses who contacted what they thought to be the OP's separated spouse where the OP spouse was totally surprised to hear they were separated (did that sentence make any sense? WSes and OPs are LIARS).

Write the plan B letter soon. But there is information in there you will need to think about - who to be an intermediary, children visitation, financial arrangements, and MOST importantly a pathway for him to return to the marriage. I will look for the posts on Plan B letters and try to bump them so you can find them.

LH, do I have this right? OW is in NC, and WH is at his mother's. Where is his mother's? In TX also? Do you think it likely they are in physical contact as Barnboy suggested?

BTW, this is the ultimate, ugly rollercoaster. Your emotions will be all over the place. 19 months post D-day, I am finally starting to feel like a normal person. This experience has been the most difficult one of my life.

AM

His mother lives an hour away from us. I know he hasn't had any physical contact with OW in 3 weeks. I also know that there is an army thing at the end of January, I was suppose to go with him. I am sure she will be there and maybe that's what he's thinking about is seeing her in a few weeks. I just don't know.

It just sucks that he came home from the 1st time he left after confessing to the A, and that he wanted to work things out. I thought things were going good and boom out of no where he tells me he doesn't love me anymore and has no desire to be with me.

I hate this so much. We had so many plans we are in the middle of building our dream home and I have to look at everyday and it saddens me so much. I always pictured living the rest of my life with him.

When I do write the Plan B letter, do I mail it to him or can it be an email. I just don't know what to say, that's why I am wondering if I should wait a week or so.

LH,

I am no expert on Plan B. I wrote a plan B letter to my H while he was visiting his mother after her stroke and contacted OW via email. Take a look at Scotland's thread. She has done one of the best plan a/plan B around here. Also, take a look at the Plan B letterbuilding thread that I bumped for you.

Seems as though you have some options. Go plan B now or attend the Army thing with your H. Seems unlikely that he would not attend. Is it in NC? I think you are probably right. H knows he will see her then and he does not want to give her up.

I certainly understand about the house. A few months before D-day, I retired from a nearly 28 year career in the Army. Two weeks before D-day, we signed a contract on a house for retirement. I could not believe that H let me do that. He said that was what he always wanted though. Your H may be similarly confused and lost. Right now, he wants everything - his family, the OW, everything. It is all part of the fantasy of the affair.
If he is anything like my H, he is totally miserable right now. My H looked like 100 years old, was terribly unhappy because he was acting in ways totally opposite to his moral code. But he was weak, totally selfish and kept making those decisions.

AM

You may be able to verify that your WH hasn't been to NC, but you have no idea where this lying OW has been. She could go anywhere in the country, and you would have no idea.

Assume contact is ongoing. At this point it doesn't matter how, it is just happening.

If you have an opportunity for a golden Plan A moment before going to PB, I recommend that you take it.

If you can reach deep and do another couple weeks of Plan A, especially since he's out of the house so you wouldn't have to deal with him all the time, I would recommend that, too. You've had some lovebusters, and if you're able to do so it's best to show him your most shining side before going dark.

Expose this A as far up his command as you need to in order to get someone to pay attention. Do this ASAP. The military quite rightly takes a dim view of adultery, and they have many resources you don't.

WOW! We have so many similarities, we just moved into our dream home. And it was like BOOM! for me too! Bug gigantic hugs to you!

I talked to him last night and he was not nice at all. he doesn't want our marriage to work, he just doesn't love me.

I tried to tell him what this is doing to his kids and he said they are just kids and they will be ok. That is not true.

He doesn't think that wanting to work on our marriage and not even trying to work on it is being selfish. We only tried for 3 weeks and he really didn't try, he says he did, but he didn't.He said he has no desire to be married to me anymore. I am so crushed.

He seems like all this is ok with him and he is not upset at all. This is not the man I fell in love with and marriad.

Is there any hope to recover this marriage, if he is not willng??

LH,
Yes, there is hope to recover the M even if your H is not willing at this point. There are many stories of this on the website. But you need to have a PLAN to do this.

Your H is still in his affair. So it will do no good to try to reason with him or educate him about the effect of the A on the children. He is too wrapped up in his own selfish desires to listen right now.

The worst thing you can do is call him and rant about what he is doing. Did you read about the carrot and stick of plan A?

Take a look at the article about effects of an affair on children - for your infomration. It won't do any good to talk to H about this right now.
In Dr Dobson's book, "Love Must be Tough", he talks about opening the cage and letting the spouse go. At the same time, you should not be showing how needy you might be feeling. It was not until I let my H know that not only would I be ok without him, but fabulous, that he finally started to come around.

Have you exposed the A to OW's family yet? Notified the military command?

AM

Agree totally with AM. This is an active A, and must be fought as such for the best chance of recovery.

And yes, you do have a good chance of keeping your M if you follow the plans. Truly, the largest danger is failure to protect your own Love Bank from his ravages. That's why Plan A needs to be short.

For the best chance a BS does need that Plan A time to show that they will be able to meet WS's needs in the future, true. That's why I recommend a little longer if you're able, to get him eating a little more cake before you cut him off. Still, the majority of WS's end up wanting to come back at some point. That's why protecting your love for him is crucial, so you'll be willing to try then. So Plan A, but only for a little while.

Right now he's very withdrawn. By extending your Plan A, even for a short while, you'll be more likely to bring him into a state of conflict - getting some needs met by you and some by OW, and growing increasingly confused and wishy-washy. That's what I like to see if possible before the jump to Plan B.

You've got resources at your disposal that most of us can only dream of. By all means, use them! Expose today!

I want to encourage you that there is hope. It doesn't matter what he says about loving you any more, or not wanting to be married. So many of us have heard the exact same words, and are now happily recovered with our FWS's. For right now, his words and actions don't matter at all to your chances of R. What you do and say, on the other hand, will have a profound influence.

So buck up, lay off the relationship/educational talk with him, and be bright, vibrant, witty, all the things you naturally are but he hasn't seen for a while.

When you talk to him, be very peppy, and excuse yourself first - don't wait for him to hang up. "Oh, look at the time! Well, gotta run, but it's been great talking to you - bye!" That's your assignment for today, that and exposure.

AM and Neak thanks so much. You have made me feel better. I worry about my kids and myself as far as finances go, I am going to talk to a lawyer to see what my opitions are.

I have made up my mind that I am not going to contact him. If he calls me about something I will put on my happy face, tell him what he needs to know and end the call. I hope he realizes soon what he is throwing away, I know it may take months or even years.I am moving forward for my children. I am NOT going backwards, other then this mess HE made I have a wonderful life and I am going to enjoy it with or without him. Yes I love him and yes I want to make my marriage work, but the ball is in his court.

Thanks again for all the support and advice. Y'all have been wonderful!!

I have been on an emotional rollcoaster all day. How long does this ride last?

If the two of you choose to recover together... about two years from the last date of contact with the affair partner.

If you decide to divorce, it lasts as long as your children are under-age, and periodically after that.

Either way, it stabilizes a bit with time.

And people wonder why I'm so interested in saving my marriage and wish I could save others...

I really don't know, I'm new on this ride too...But for me it's been 2 and a half months and still riding. I'm sorry. I'm sure others have a better idea and I'm sure it's different for everyone...

LH,

I am sorry you are feeling bad. Folks here talk about the rollercoaster and it sure is tough to have to be on the ride of someone else's chosing.

I can tell you that I am much better this year than I was last year. I think it happened when I finally believed in my heart and soul that I would be ok either with or without my H.

Reference Barnboy's comment, I think the two years for recovery is a general rule of thumb if BOTH partners are involved in re-building the marriage.

Stay strong. Get a good plan.

Best wishes.

AM

In Dr. Harley's book SAA he said to give Plan A at least 6 months, but since my WH is saying he wants a D do I go ahead with Plan B? I wrote the letter and was prepared to get it to him, but when I reread SAA about both plans I got confussed on what to do? Continue A for a few months or really go to Plan B? He has only been gone for 4 days.

[quote=Neak]
For the best chance a BS does need that Plan A time to show that they will be able to meet WS's needs in the future, true. That's why I recommend a little longer if you're able, to get him eating a little more cake before you cut him off. Still, the majority of WS's end up wanting to come back at some point. That's why protecting your love for him is crucial, so you'll be willing to try then. So Plan A, but only for a little while.

Right now he's very withdrawn. By extending your Plan A, even for a short while, you'll be more likely to bring him into a state of conflict - getting some needs met by you and some by OW, and growing increasingly confused and wishy-washy. That's what I like to see if possible before the jump to Plan B.

[quote]
OK so Neak pretty much answered my question for me already.