Hi ChaiLover, Happy New Year and thank you for touching my thread.

Interesting that you should ask this very question. Just three days ago (on the 2nd month anniversary of D-day) I had an "Ah-ha" moment. I came to the realization that I would likely not recover if I kept thinking and working and hoping that WW would come back to the M. She won't.

Now I'm no psychologist, but I have worked closely with counselors for nearly two decades. I started reading on personality disorders and in effect, found WW's picture on the definition page of one. {{{Shudder}}}.

I felt like I'd turned a corner. Yes, I love the woman I thought my wife was, but not the woman she is. I feel like kicking myself for letting myself be conned by a sociopath. So as it stands, when she comes to remove the remainder of her belongings from the house next month, when she leaves I hope it's the last time I ever see her.

My sanity and health now depend on me picking up and moving on. When I arrived here, I was scared of what life without WW might be like. I'm not scared any more. I know I'm going to encounter triggers and PTSD-like reactions, but I've been so helped by you folks at MB, my recovery groups, and the loving care shown me by true friends and family. So I will get through those, too.

I guess that's the long-winded answer to your question. The short answer is: No, I do not think there is any future in this M. Not only does WW's profile strongly suggest she's already disposed of it no matter what transpires with OM, but trying to live with this woman again is just another variation on the ages-old definition of insanity.

Not for me. No, thanks.

I fought so hard because I had 36 years (my entire life) invested in the marriage, and after all, starting over at my age is very hard. Instead of starting over, I should be retiring. Anyway, my WH left and never looked back. In fact, he Plan B'd me.

You have 6 years and no children together so I honestly think that in the long run your life will be more peaceful and of a higher quality than it would be with this woman. Is she the one you want to spend your retirement years with? Would she care for you if you got sick?

Slowly I am beginning to get a peek at life beyond my marriage. Yes, being replaced is the hardest thing I have ever gone through, and the emotion that I feel most of the time is jealousy because OW won. And anger. But, when I put on that stupid logic hat, I know that I am probably better off without the person who betrayed me so deeply.

I'm sorry, ChaiLover. My dad divorced my mother after 36 years. I was an adult and married, so the impact on me was minimal. But I know the affect it had on my mother. I wish I could tell you how sorry I am for you.

I used to think so.

I used to think so.

Good for you, ChaiLover. You are right about me and my situation. From the start I told myself, "you are still way better off than most." I almost feel guilty about that.

Since the day WW vacated the premises, I have had a taste of life without her. And since I lived a single life for nearly twelve years before our M, I'm not that far removed from it to know how. It's one of the reasons I'm taking a New Year's holiday. When I first met WW, I so wanted to be in a relationship. I'm not so eager, now. Even though I could sue for divorce tomorrow, I'm going to take the easy (and less expensive) way, and wait the mandatory six months. That's my "protective barrier" to keep me from making a terrible mistake. I'm going to use that time to read the MB books and work to improve myself. I now believe that when the time is right, I'll meet someone. It's not up to me to rush that time.

Peace be with you, CL.

Fred, you are a good man. We all need improvement. But, don't beat yourself up too badly about this faulty picker deal.
First, these disordered folks, particularly the ASPDs , are masterful at taking good people in.
I've taken some heat about my failed marriages and my poor choices. And, I am continuing to work on my issues that allowed this to happen to me twice.
But, my therapist told me that my problem in this area, stemming from my childhood, is fixable, unlike a personality disorder.
Although I piss some folks off here, IRL, I am incredibly well liked. I have many friends and my kids love me. My X's families do, too.
I think you just have to crank up your own entitlement meter. You are a very patient, trusting guy, good qualities, but these are exactly what the disordered are looking for. You need to get better balance between giving and not allowing partners to take advantage.
I have had to set some arbitrary criteria in dating. I have been out with some very good looking women since divorcing. In the past, I would have overlooked certain behaviors or histories due to attraction. But, now, I walk away when the red flags appear.

Worth repeating.

It's amazing how things can change in such a short time.

I'm cooking some turkey sloppy joes (hey, I'm a guy -- this is more work for lunch than I normally put out) and taking a break from boxing up and moving WW's stuff into the garage.

DD27 is on her way over to help. We'll move the manageable pieces of furniture and leave only the big stuff for WW and her "crew" to handle when they come over to move her out.

A few short weeks ago, the thought of helping WW move out would have appalled me. Today I can't wait for her to be out of here.

Interestingly enough, rather than feel melancholy and sad about this while I'm boxing her stuff up, I'm feeling somewhat "liberated." I've pulled stuff out of the basement that's been sitting there since we moved in. I've packed up her dishes, pots and pans, glasses, seasonings, teas, videos, CDs, paperwork, outerwear, knickknacks, and just about everything that's in sight, in drawers or in cabinets. In their place I have put my cookware, glasses, dishes and so forth. When you live as a bachelor for a dozen years, you pick up a lot of the "necessities" and I'm not finding I lack much, if anything at all.

I'm also re-arranging. I've moved the coffee maker, changed the furniture layout in the living room, removed EVERYTHING of hers from the master bedroom and bathroom, and the house is now beginning to look like MINE and not OURS.

Yesterday I said that I hoped I would achieve a level of detachment that would allow me to simply watch WW load her stuff onto a truck and leave without me saying anything. I feel I've made another stride in that direction. My goal is complete detachment from WW and to live the rest of my life without her. One day at a time...

Oh hey, my sloppy joes are ready. DD27 should be here any minute.

Hey Fred, what you wrote over on hopeful I'm trying to copy the link in Zodiac. Can you help me know how to look to the carrot and the stick thread that you linked?

Thanks, Queenie.

Oh.. The skins play tonight.

OK Fred, don't get too cocky about this whole thing. Be aware that this is a roller coaster ride and you are now on the first hill going up - and it's a big one. You know what that means? The first drop will be a doozie.

I did the same thing that you are doing. When WH showed up for 5 minutes on moving day and told me that he didn't want to be M anymore, well, I thought he would change his mind. So I moved into a really adorable condo and set about doing the things that you are doing. I decided that if he came back, I would have a nice place for us to live, but hey, this was mine now and I was going to make it into what I wanted. So I took the old "screw him" attitude and starting painting (pink walls!!) and decorating, and just having a good ol' time. I didn't need him anymore. And if he wanted to go with Miss Mullet, then fine, I would work on me. I would be the best person that I could be.

Then I went over the hump and started speeding to the bottom pretty quickly. OMG, I didn't expect that.

Since then, I have learned that this is a roller coaster - the longest one ever too. Just when you think the ride is coming to an end, boom, you start going over that hump again.

But I have also learned to get the most out of the ride up. I really take advantage of those when they come!!

I am glad that you are taking advantage of it too right now.

Please, do not forget to impregnate certain of her personal items with rotting fish carcasses, Fred. You can claim that wandering cats deposited them, as they have access to the garage.

Seriously, though, these tangible actions, like getting rid of her crap, are very helpful. I hope you have disposed of any photos etc. , as well.

*bump*

Just a short note from Reykjavik to all my faceless friends (well, not since the Photo thread was revealed) to wish you all a Happy New Year!

My flight was enhanced by being in First Class -- something I wasn't aware of, but which I certainly wasn't going to turn down -- and only took a little over five hours from New York City. A five hour time zone change, and it was 6:00 a.m. when we arrived -- and the sun didn't come up until 10:30.

As I write this, the sun is setting -- at 3:45 p.m. I have made my New Year's Eve arrangements, and will be spending tomorrow sightseeing like crazy!

I sometimes get a little wistful, thinking that WW would like it here, I think. But I'm here to put some distance between us for a while, clear my head out by putting some new -- solo -- experiences into my head, and get used to the idea she's probably gone for good. No one can tell the future, I know, so I'm just going to play it one day at a time.

Now, what for dinner? Minke whale steak? Reindeer? Puffin? Or something more familar, like lamb (which is supposed to be excellent) or seafood (after all, the name Iceland is based on the word "island," and not so much on ice (which there is some on the ground, but I daresay it's colder in New York right now than here).

:happynewyear:

WONDERFUL !

ENJOY!


:happynewyear:

Well folks, the trip to Iceland was absolutely fabulous, and while there were some brief moments of melancholy, overall it was a refreshing change.

Of course, it's really only a temporary respite. This coming weekend, WW is coming by to move out the rest of her things from the house.

For those coming in late, here is a brief recap:

WW left me -- her 4th husband -- after admitting an affair in late October. Not having an immediate place to go, she ate cake for 5 weeks. I did not find MB until week 4, and by then we had a separation agreement in place.

Some of the veterans here have suggested I am better off without her. She's left four husbands, has a terrible record with finances, abandoned her children to leave H#3, is a "recovering" (?) alcoholic, likes to decorate but hates to clean, and apparently lacks a conscience, shows no remorse or expresses any regret for anything she's done (short of leaving her kids). My research suggests she may fit the criteria for sociopathy, but I'm not an expert, so I can't really say.

I went into Plan B on December 1. WW has made no effort to contact me, and has only spoken through my attorney (despite having gotten an IM and requested she use that means of communication). The last communication was to arrange to come by this weekend and pick up her stuff.

She has made it known that she will be accompanied by a couple of "friends" (likely her A.A. sponsees) -- probably to "protect" her against my madness and "hot temper" or whatever story she's concocted and sold these folks. I will counter by having one or more of my own witnesses present.

I moved most of her things to the garage, but she has large furniture that I could not move. Through my IM I have set down my requirements for access to my house. From a practical point of view I think I'm all set.

What I need, and what I will be posting toward for the next few days, is the help and encouragement of those folks who have stood by me these past couple of months. Part of my trip was to help me get used to life without WW, and to achieve a level of detachment from her.

It's my hope that when she comes, I will be able to speak with her calmly, without LB, and in fact, without any emotional attachment whatsoever. I am not quite sure I can do this, yet. I don't know which woman will show up. Will she be cool and detached? Will she be foggy and angry? Will she show signs of regret (false though it may be)? And how will I react to these different aspects of her?

Plan B has been quite successful for me, once I got over the urge to continue spying on her. All that I've seen are reports from my health insurance company for claims she's made. Her coverage expired on midnight, New Year's Eve (I doubt she's been checked for STDs, but the claims do not indicate for what she's been treated. She has had some known physical issues prior to the A). So I really do not know where she stands in relation to OM, the A, where she's living, if she's found work, or anything else. That's probably a good thing, but it leaves me feeling open and vulnerable to anything she might hit me with.

Please consider this my plea for help as I prepare for Round Two (Three? Four? Five?). Yes, I still harbor some hope that this will all be a bad dream and that somehow, some day, WW and I will R the M. Of course, it's a long shot, but if I didn't have that hope, I'd be posting on the Divorcing/Divorced forum. And I may in time, just not yet.

Thanks for bearing with me...

Hey Fred-O,

I don't think I'm going out on a limb by saying that should you not R the M, I feel highly confident that your personal recovery will be quite successful.

My question, though, is here I am, in CA, tapping away at 10:30pm back to you -- in VA. You aren't kidding with the whole "Sleepless" thread name.....

Hang tough, Fred-O. I have no doubt that you will.

TB

It's true, TB. I still am not sleeping well. Tonight however, I have a different excuse: I'm at Logan Airport in Boston where my connecting flight doesn't leave until 5:00 a.m. (something about not being able to book my connector in a timely manner due to my having to clear customs upon arrival from Iceland). Not only do I not sleep on airplanes, I sleep even less (if that's possible) in airports!

Wow. Okay, then you're up for awhile.

I may have missed it in your thread but have you and Mrs. Fred agreed on everything she should be picking up this weekend?

Just wondering whether there could be any potential disputes. You know, like maybe both of you want to keep that tea set from Aunt Milly....

TB

TB, I'd say we're 99.9% agreed. We both had "stuff" coming into the marriage, and pretty much everything "we" got since I bought. I've made an inventory of the things still in the house; everything else I've moved into the garage.

She might ask for some decorative items, and truth be told, she can have them. Especially if it helps get her out quickly and without a fuss.

There was one painting she asked for earlier that I kind of like, but even it isn't too much of a sacrifice if it speeds the process.

If it sounds like I'm eager to have her out, it's only because she hasn't given any indication she wants back in again. I'm not riding the fence.

Hi Fred - you might want to try visualizing different scenarios in regards to this weekend. I have used this successfully during exposure, especially with OM. By running through different scenarios (good and bad) in advance of the situation, and visualizing my measured response, I was much more comfortable in the moment.

I am also sure you will be quite fine in the medium and long term. You are growing from this experience, and you are a stand-up guy.

Thanks, mfoss. I have been doing just that -- running through my mind possible scenarios. My best guess is that she'll be cool and diffident, wanting to display no emotion but to carry herself as though she was taking the "high road" and "doing the right thing."

I just want to be detached but not cold or negative. I am hoping to affect the posture of someone who is just watching a tenant move out.

By the same token, I would like her to know that I still care. That I'm not "out of love" with her, despite what her foggy brain thinks.