And that is exactly why I have chosen to start posting in my thread again, Zelmo. I am hoping that by airing all the possible scenarios and outcomes here, before she and her retinue arrive Saturday to start the process of moving her out, that I can play out all the possible scenes and realize that none of them make a d%mn bit of difference.

I want to reach that point where I will not rise to the temptation to argue, judge, cry or otherwise be attached to the process. I want this to be as if she were a paying tenant moving out. No drama, no personal interaction, just a "transaction."

Z, I read yours and others' stories and I realize with a sense of relief I can't express, that I'm getting out easy. So easy, in fact, that I'm scared to death that I will somehow screw this up and turn what could be the re-establishment of my dignity into a train wreck of emotional outpouring and lack of adult control.

KR, I do not need to travel anywhere. Of course, I just returned from a most fabulous trip, so maybe that's just perspective. The key reason for the trip I took was to put distance -- both physically as well as emotionally -- between WW and myself. This trip was MY experience, MY memories and MY choice of where, when and how. I now have a recent imprint that does not contain a single essence of her.

The only flaw in your commentary is that the move this weekend is just a brief, necessary interruption in Plan B. She will not learn from me any of my activities, nor I will of hers. Furthermore, I believe she doesn't care to know. I am as dead to her as I hope she becomes to me.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize you'd just returned from a trip.

All I can say is have a witness, and if you think about not having one, talk to PSUBIKER about how well that works.

Good luck to you.

Oh, for sure I will have a witness. More than one, if I can.

In fact, in addition to the "official witness" I'm having over, I've invited some folks to a sort of "open house" to watch TV, shoot the breeze and otherwise just keep me company during the time WW and her friends are here packing up her stuff.

EXCELLENT !

I am attempting to imprint in my mind the value of single-sentence responses to questions and statements WW might make during this upcoming weekend move-out.

What I'm not certain about is how I should respond if she tries to blame me for the current situation, or if she makes any comments regarding our current status.

Should I acknowledge that it was her decision to leave and not mine? Or should I try to, "I'm sorry you feel that way. Want a cookie?" routine, even though we're way past Plan A?

I'd like to stay as emotionally neutral as possible. When she vacated the house on November 30, it seemed that the only comments that came out of her mouth were fogbabble. Unfortunately, I was not able to resist responding to some of her tripe. This time I'd just as soon treat her like the alien she has become, and not give her the satisfaction of getting a response out of me.

How do I calmly, with detachment, say "I'm simply not interested in discussing this with you?"

Oh, hey...

Thanks! All very helpful. My goal is to be neutral. I know myself well enough that if I'm not careful, I could come across as appearing judgmental, aloof or superior (at least she's accused me of those). Even using the wrong tone of voice could convince her that I'm attacking or being disrespectful (see the concept of "walking on eggshells" on the personality disorders web sites). I just want this to be over and done with, and as soon as possible, with the least possible emotional abuse...

I need to vent.

Earlier this afternoon I received an IM from my "friend" who is also the friend of The Leopard. He's never IM'd me before. I congratulated him on his 22nd A.A. anniversary and said I had been away. He told me he was leading a meeting tonight, asked me if I had a book he wanted to use to quote from and strongly hinted that he'd see me there.

I hadn't thought of going to this particular meeting, but I said what the heck, so I showered, shaved and headed to it. I arrived, found a seat, and chatted briefly with a couple of people I know. The meeting started, Friend shared on his book topic and off went the meeting.

At half time, medallions ("chips") were presented to those people celebrating lengths of continuous sobriety. Among those was a woman who picked up her nine month chip. This woman was one of The Leopard's last patients before she was fired. It made me realize that it had been three months since I had seen this woman, who had picked up her six month chip at this same meeting.

Later, this woman shared, and one of her comments was on how she was so grateful to The Leopard, that without The Leopard, she didn't know if she would have made it or not. I thought briefly of congratulating her after the meeting.

Moments before the meeting ended, I happened to look across the room (chairs are set up facing each other, with the leader sitting at the "U" part of the arrangement and my eyes fell on The Leopard sitting there, looking down at the floor. Crap!

I resolved that when the meeting was over to hurry out of the meeting. So when we gathered to close I positioned myself close to the door and made my exit immediately after.

I don't begrudge The Leopard meeting attendance, but why does it strike me as quite coincidental that someone who has never IM'd me before did so, looking for a book (which he just happened to "find" moments later) hinting that he was looking forward to seeing me at this meeting?

Plan B. So I left. But damn, this feels a bit too weird. PTSD, or something else?

I'm out of here going to another meeting to settle down a bit.

Fred, just donrespond to her comments if she makes any. Or, a simple F.U. might be okay.
Fred, my first wife sounds a lot like your WW in that she is big time involved in AA(needs to beleive she is alcoholic, to justify her affairs, IMO).
In any case, now she is the head of the women's program at a high end rehab center here in Minnesota. She is a magna cum law school grad.
I cannot stand to watch how she can fool people into believing she is a caring, evolved, spiritual person. She talks such a good talk.
But, this poster child for NPD has led a life of destruction. She abandoned her children , one severly disabled, to pursue liasons wiht strangers she would meet in bars when she was out at night(224 out of 365 in 1994, the year i finally decided to keep track).
She had had an affair with a married man when she was single. She is profane on the phone with me when I have any type of dissenting opinion.
She has her fans, a group of neurotic, hero worshipping women in AA. She can seem so together to these folks who see only her facade.
Yet, everyone who really gets to know her, eventually, cannot stand her.
My dad was a really savvy guy, raised on the streets of NYC, living in the subways as a kid during the depression. He worked his way through college, was a major in the army for 5 years during WWII, and went through Harvard law school in a little over 2 years.
He had a handle on my XWW but kept his mouth shut for years. He was dying of cancer and emphysema when i found out about my XWW's serial affairs. I went home to see him, as he was dying. I told him about everything.
From his bed, he looked me in the eyes and said "Zelmo, your WW is the most insincere person I have ever met." And, he had met a ton of folks in a 45 year career as a litigator.
Your Ww, who has ASPD, has a facade that works with naive, unsophisticated people. Your daughter is among those who see through her. Undoubtedly, there are many others who do, as well. Bet they have been holding back on their opinions.

I'm wondering how I should respond if she decides to use the "soft, gentle and feminine" tactic. You know, "Fred, don't you care...?"

Noncommittal is my desire. So I don't say, "No, I don't care," or "I stopped caring," or any number of single-sentence responses. How to give a direct answer to something like that without becoming entangled?

F-off; Suck [censored]; Bite Me; etc

Also, make sure you have some books, like "The Sociopath Nextdoor" and "Stop Walking on Eggshells" or "Meaning from Madness" laying around.

"That's an interesting question. What do you think?"
"Why not guess?"
"How would you feel in my situation?"

Learn to respond to every question with a question. It's infuriating, but you seem very deep and impenetrable when doing it

I kid, but if it's a coping strategy that works...?

"I only care if you agree to full NC and all the things I need to know that you choose me. If you won't do that, I have nothing to say to you."

LOL - I like it

Follow up to this evening's "close call."

I went to a second meeting, and achieved some of the calming counterbalance I'd sought.

Present at the meeting were The Leopard's new running girl friend, her ostensible new A.A. sponsor, and several other folks (mostly younger women) who know both The Leopard and I and the current sitch.

The meeting topic was on anger and resentment. The Leopard's sponsor said a few things that led me to believe that if she isn't saying the same thing to The Leopard, she's one of the biggest hypocrites I've ever encountered. This is a woman who just celebrated 34 years of sobriety, so I'd like to think the former and not the latter.

I happened to be wearing a sweatshirt I bought in Iceland that says Lost In Iceland on it. One of our joint Facebook friends commented on the photos of the trip I posted. At the end of the meeting, I spoke with The Leopard's running friend and told her I'd decided to come out of retirement (running friend had gone with us to run the Marine Corps Marathon two days after D-day. After the MCM, I said I had retired from running marathons due to my back problem). She asked if I had been running and I said I had. In fact, I had finished second in my age bracket in a 10K a few weeks back. I then told her that I was planning on running the Reykjavik Marathon in August. We spoke a bit more, and I gushed on about how great my trip was, then parted company.

No doubt the combination of my sweatshirt and comments about running will find their way back to The Leopard. She might have seen the sweatshirt at the earlier meeting, but I doubt it, as I never faced her way until near the end, and then I was several rows back and she couldn't have seen what I was wearing.

I guess the only thing that still rankles me -- and I want to ask the A.A. members reading this forum -- is that while I don't begrudge The Leopard meeting attendance, I feel that I shouldn't have to dash out of a meeting like a raped ape when I happen to notice The Leopard in attendance. I know Plan B requires total darkness, but I felt "punished" because of The Leopard's behavior and would rather have stayed around and socialized with friends after the meeting.

Is there another way? After Plan B, I don't think being in the same meeting will be unbearable (although I think I'd rather not) but what should one do during Plan B?

Hey Fred,

Remember, you will have guests at your house -- and I'm not including HER in that category. Let THEM be your go-to source should you need it.

If she's confrontational, you are non-committal.
If she's woe-is-me, you are non-committal.
If she's flirtatious, you are non-committal.

Don't get sucked into the whole, if she says "X", I say, "Y". ANYTHING she says should evoke "Y" from you.

Things get dicey, you go ask your guests if they'd like more hot cheet-ohs or maybe another Fresca. When you're feeling more at ease, then you go back to oversee her efforts.

TB

Wow. Cheetos and Fresca. I haven't been to a party like that in decades!

Fred, this is a tough one. Are there other meetings you can attend in the area? What does your sponsor have to say about the situation? You know what needs to come first in your life. Do not let ole' Leopard britches interfere with your sobriety. You don't have to "dash out" of a meeting if you see her. That is completely your choice. You can choose to completely ignore her. If she attempts to interact with you, that may be a different story then.

It may not be right and it may not be fair, but it may be best for you to find some new meetings. If there aren't any other meetings around, then I recommend you do your best to try to ignore, but continue to attend meetings and share. I doubt your WW will move on to other meetings. Do all the friends at the meeting know the situation? If not, what about bringing it up as a topic during a meeting? Maybe not in specific detail, but about failed 13th steppers or something. Think that would certainly clear the air a little bit, so to speak.

Just offering some suggestions. I really couldn't imagine my WW in a meeting with me. Well, she's not a drunk anyway, but I'm just trying to imagine how difficult this must be for you. That's like invading your 'sanctuary', you know? However, if she has the desire to stay sober, she does have every right to be there as well.

I'm sure there are many other situations like yours around the tables. Maybe ask some 'old timers' if they ever dealt with similar issue.

Pray. Don't drink.