But then this is at total odds with this:


Completely inconsistent.

You know, they always say that we worry most - and ACCUSE most - that which we ourselves are afraid of. Maybe all this is ottert's way of dealing with fears of his own.

Everyone has repeatedly told Ottert his wife's emails were inappropriate but for some reason he thinks he has to keep flogging this horse.

Hey, tst,



I'M RELAXED!!! WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???!!!

HUH??!! YOU WANNA ARGUE WITH ME??!!

Seriously, I'm cool.

I just like debating and discussing this stuff. I thought that's what forums are for. Why does everybody think I'm arguing or uptight?

I don't know what it is, but all I did was make a point about the story linked in the OP's first post, and WHAMMO, SugarCane comes in and tells me "Don't go there, ottert!" and the SWAT unit sweeps in on me.

What? I'm just participating in the discussion. I'm allowed to do that, right?

Hey, even though it's getting near my bedtime, I think I'm gonna take your advice and go have a beer.

G'night.

That's exactly what Dr. Harley says - he knows he's hard-wired for an affair and that's why he uses Extraordinary Precautions. In fact he said that early in his marriage he realized that his biggest weakness was women, so he knew he had to avoid being in a position to be tempted.

I'd say I'm in good company.

Yeah, not exactly what I meant.

Cat,

I wrote this


How do you get this?


How many straw men are you going to try to build tonight? I've counted three or four so far.

I seriously need that beer now.

Yes, of course, there is a risk of that happening.


Even professional conversations can be pleasurable and it is possible to begin to admire someone because of their professional capabilities.


Each and every one of us likes to be listened to and most of us enjoy interaction with other people.


YES!


This is a big issue for you Ottert because you clearly do not feel safe in your M - YET.

I drive in my car almost every day. I need to drive to get to where I need to go and I enjoy the freedom driving gives me. I cannot imagine not being able to drive. It would put limits on me that I would find very isolating, and if BB was the one insisting I couldn't drive, that I would surely feel resentful.

Statistically, it is the most dangerous form of transport, so when I get in the car I accept the risk that comes with that decision.

However, when I drive I take precautions to keep me safe. I service and maintain my car regularly to keep it in good condition, I follow the rules of the road, I never drink and drive, I wear my seatbelt, and I keep to the speed limit. I therefore minimise the risk that I will become another accident statistic. BB understands all I do to keep safe and is therefore happy for me to tootle around and even take our 3 children out in the car with me.

Conversation seems to be to be somewhat similar. It is unrealistic to expect a spouse never to engage in conversation with a member of the opposite sex but yes, there is a risk that the conversation will be enjoyable and will ultimately lead to one being another A statistic.

However, if you build a M in which both participants agree that precautions are necessary to keep you safe, and you maintain a M in which the need for conversation is consistently met and met the way your spouse likes it to be met, then you reduce the risk of your spouse having this need met elsewhere. I think Dr Harley says you can even Affair proof your M.

I guess you feel this way because your W has not yet acted to prevent herself from being in a similar situation that led to her inappropriate behaviour. But realistically, how can she? How can she guarantee that she will not engage in any conversations that she may find pleasant. That's virtually impossible. But it's not impossible to put EP's in place and it's not impossible for you to meet your wife's need for conversation so well that she feels absolutely no desire to discuss anything interesting with anyone other than you. I am of course not referring to secret emails which are clearly a big NO-NO, and are a clear betrayal of trust.

What has your wife done to demonstate to you that her EPs' around conversation are strong? What plan do you have for total transparency in each of your dealings with the opposite sex?

If EP's are tight, you are happily meeting each other's top needs, avoiding LB'ers and spending good quality UA time togther, you will feel safer and the risks will be massively reduced, if not eradicated.

JMVHO. Sorry, I seem to have rambled a bit. I know what I'm trying to say even if no-one else will.

I wanted to add that it's also important to identify and protect your weaknesses.

Conversation isn't high on BB's list of EN's but admiration is.

In the aftermath of BB's A, we talked about the reasons he had done it for what felt like ages. We identified his specific weaknesses and put in extra EP's to protect those.

Conversation per se will not deposit units into BB's LB� but if someone starts singing his praises telling him how wonderful he is, how clever he is, how attractive he is and the deposits begin.

Now he appreciates this weakness, he can protect himself and remove himself from any situation in which he feels there is a danger of someone of the opposite sex saying anything remotely like this.

Incidentally, for me, if someone I hardly knew started saying things like that to me, it would be a huge turn off and withdrawals would be made from any LB� they had with me. I just dislike "false/fake" people" who try to ingratiate themselves.

However, if someone starts to share their problems with me, then Bingo. Big deposits.

Weird.

We both, however now understand where our weaknesses or vulnerabilities are and can protect them.

Who is "- BB -"?

Sorry, that would be my FWH who posts here as BillyBassett.

I based it on this:

IMO, your wife DOESN'T feel 100% fulfilled by you, so you WILL have to be hyper-vigilant. So for you, yeah, you'll have to guard her like a prized pig (no harm intended) for your own peace of mind for the rest of your marriage; and she'll resent you for it for the rest of your marriage, no matter what she tells you to your face. For others, who are regularly fulfilling each other's ENs and not LBing, forbidding conversations altogether is a great way to LB yourself into divorce.

Yesterday as I was walking through the cafeteria, I ran into the PE teacher. His wife is expecting, so I asked him how she was feeling. I asked him if he was excited about having a daughter (they already have a boy). He asked how music was going. It was very short, but it had nothing to do with faculty meetings, lesson plans, or when he needed to put up risers for the next program. And there was nothing - nothing - inappropriate about it.

Last night a colleague/classmate of H's and one of my friends called H to ask about a class she was being asked to take. The chatted for a few minutes, during which time he gave her some advice that could have easily been given my her female advisor, but since they were on the phone anyway they talked about it. And there was nothing - nothing - inappropriate about it.

My daughter is 13. She is at an age when se will be facing lots of temptation and questioning a lot of things. I could homeschool her, keep her in the house unless a chaperone her everywhere she goes. I could try to remove all outward circumstances in which she might make the wrong choice. And it might work. But the bottom line issue is what is INSIDE of her. And even if it worked, the minute she left for college, she would probably just explode. And to be honest, I really wouldn't blame her. What girl wants to live like that????

I just wanted to get my 2 cents in before this thread locks, because EVERY time we go down this road, the thread gets locked because it disintegrates into TOS violations. You would think it would sink in after awhile. If going 75 MPH gets you pulled over, take responsibility for your driving and stop going 75!!!

My D19's best friend has wicked strict parents and expected perfect scores from her (they're Korean); if she drove to our house for a sleepover party (1/2 mile away) and didn't call the very minute she got here, they would come over and tell her to get back in the car and go home. All she cared about in high school was to pick a college as far away from her parents as possible. Her freshman year, she partied like crazy; she talks about how much she likes to drink now. This year, she is now back home, getting ready to start in junior college; she had to take a medical discharge, unable to finish the semester, for having a mental breakdown - trying to be the perfect student for her parents, and also trying to get what SHE wants out of life.

You're right; it has to come from inside.

First, show me where I said I am "forbidding conversations altogether." Another of your straw men, cat.

Second, you telling someone that their spouse isn't 100% fulfilled is a case of the pot calling the kettle black if I ever saw one.

Yep, back to tearing down anyone who questions you. Real mature.

Oterts posts to this thread are his passive agressive attempts to send a message to his wife.

Hmm. I suggested, way back when, that ottert was passive aggressive and I got reamed big time. Thanks for validating my opinion, though, bk.

LOL Cat - well I agree with you!