Posting this here because you guys 'know' me.

Yesterday, just as I was about to drop ds9 off at his dad's he told me that the day before when he was there his dad had asked him how he (ds) would feel about OW and her son coming over to visit. Wow. I had so thought that they were over. It was a real punch to the gut to think that they are already trying to involve ds in their 'life'. Anyway, I remained very very calm with ds. I asked him what he told his dad. He told me that he told his dad he would call me if OW showed up. His dad's response to that was to keep saying, 'are you sure? are you sure?'

So I sat there in the car with him for a few minutes. Then I said, 'ds9, the thing is OW isn't just some girl your dad might be going out with. She is what is called a homewrecker. She is THE reason your dad and I got divorced. She is THE reason your family is not together. And that fact doesn't change just because we are divorced now...she will ALWAYS be THE reason.' He just looked at me..I told him that he would just have to do the best he could with a situation that isn't his fault, but he should continue to tell his dad how he feels about it.

I called OW's BH and we talked for a long time. He hung up and called his mom and sister to get their take on it and I called my mom and best friend. He doesn't have children with her, but her son and his sons of course are like brothers and they love each other. OW's BH has allowed his former step son (which he was raising has his own since the boy was about 1) to come to his home and spend the night and spend quite a bit of time with his sons. Yesterday, his gut response was to break off contact cold turkey between the boys. I told him to think that through because he didn't want to operate from a place of vengence and hurt the kids.

By the time he calmed down he was back to thinking he would allow the relationship to continue, but always at his house..he isn't going to let his sons go to her house.

As for me? I am sick to my stomach over ds being exposed to her. How do I help ds through this? I don't want to put my anger on him...my mom asked me a good question...'do you think ds is upset about the OW or is he more upset because he knows it upsets you?' How would I know? And furthermore how do I help him be himself and yet not start thinking that his dad and this OW are in an ok relationship?

I asked ds last night if his dad had said anything else about OW and he said no. I then hugged him and told him it isn't his fault...none of it is. And that I'm sorry he has been put in this situation.

OW's BH thinks she is pushing for my XH to legitimize the relationship by bringing their kids together.

Any words of wisdom? Things I should say, not say to ds?

This was my first thought, too, since your ds has always tried to be your man of the house (and you have allowed it, to some extent [sorry, JMHO]):

As sick as it makes you, I have to tell you that you are operating in the real world. In the real world - not the MB world - people divorce and blends families all the time.

It just IS the way it is. No matter how moral you want to be about it, no matter how hurt, no matter how much you want to 'teach' your son, it just IS the way it is. Personally, I feel like you are parentifying your son yet again, and you are pushing your pain onto him.

He just wants his dad. But he can't have his dad, not the way he wants, because YOU hate his dad so much; he's stuck. No matter how many times you say 'go spend time with your dad,' you are so obviously in so much pain and woundedness, he can't stop wondering if he is betraying you.

If you fill him with disgust for this woman, at his age, IMO you are seriously warping him for the rest of his life.

Yes, he can be upset; he should be. But the words you've used here make me feel like he is getting from you that he has to feel like he is in an 'enemy camp' for the rest of his life when he is with them. And like it or not, they most likely WILL be together, at least for some time.

So do you keep your ds from his dad just to keep him away from one single woman? Who has no real power over your son or you?

IMO, the better path is to explain to him that there will always be compromises in life; that we will never get exactly what we want; that the best choice you can suggest for him is to remember his morals and remain firm to never break those morals personally, but not to burn all bridges with other people simply because they don't share the same morals. If you don't teach him that, he will become a highly self-righteous, MISERABLE man the rest of his life, unwilling to accept failure in anyone. In other words, show compassion and mercy, just as I'm sure your church teaches, even if the perpetrator tore up your own life. In fact, you can teach him better skills by taking a bad situation and rising above it, not letting it become who you are.

I can tell you this because I watched my brother do it. It is not a pretty sight.

Finally, I think you put your son in an AWFUL place by hitting home so hard the fact that SHE (evil personified, as you have a tendency to do) is that cause of all your sorrows. More teaching on the path to self-righteousness - superiority over those who sin or fail...which leads your SON to the unenviable position of having to remain PERFECT for the rest of his life, lest YOU find fault in him. YES, that is what a 10 year old will take away from your discussion. 'Boy, I hope I never do something that bad; Mom will feel that way about me, too. I'll never be able to admit ANYTHING I do wrong to her - EVER.'

JMHO

Wow.

As I was reading your post, I was thinking certain things... and wondering how to tell you, or if I should tell you. If you'd be open to hearing it.

It's absolutely uncanny how your mom and cat said EXACTLY what I was thinking.

What's that phrase... You've got to "put on your Big Girl Panties now." No more indulging yourself at the expense of your son. He's way too young to have to deal with the choice you are asking him to make.

The situation he is in is NOT HIS FAULT. Yes you tell him that, but then you put on his shoulders the responsibility for policing his dad, for managing the situation, for
making sure his dad doesn't do something you find morally reprehensible.

I'm not saying it ISN'T morally reprehensible. But what is your son supposed to do about it???

What if they end up marrying? Like cat said, blended families happen all the time. Is it fair to give your son the task of making sure his dad doesn't remarry? Or of telling your son he is not to just make the best of whatever situation the adults have placed him in? Remember, it isn't his fault he's in this situation. Can't he just now be a kid and stop trying to make the situation turn out the way you want it to?

It must be terrifying for him to consider against the wishes of the mother he is bonded so very closely with.

Like your mom said, do you think ds is upset about the OW or is he more upset because he knows it upsets you?

And absolutely everything cat said.

I also have to agree with the above, SW. You might have some ugly feelings for a long time (a good clue that it's still too early to date, BTW....)and there's no excusing your husband for cheating on you. He handed you that get-out-of-marriage-free card and you used it very well.

But you are no longer married to him. What he chooses to do/who he chooses to date are no concern of yours, unless you think your son is in danger with your EH's girlfriends.

You can tell your son that married people don't date others. You can even tell him that unmarried people don't live together before they are married. But I also don't think he needs to bear the responsibility for ratting out his father to you.

Wow. Three of you saying the same thing really shocks me to tell you all the truth. MB is so radical about the OW and how we should not let our children think it is ok...and then once the divorce is final...it suddenly is ok?

Cat, this OW didn't just make 'a mistake'. This has been an ongoing process for a year now wherein 2 families were destroyed. How can that ever be ok? I feel hypocritical to tell son now, 'oh go. Enjoy being with OW and her son.' Isn't that sending a mixed moral message to him? Why is it not ok to reiterate to him that this OW is the cause of ds not having an intact family?

And contrary to your belief Cat, my ds is no where near 'the man of the house.' I don't know where you get that idea or what it even means. And I also am not angry at or wounded by WxH. I'm very glad to be rid of him.

If you say so.

But like you said, if we all see the same thing...

I'm not saying what your H did was ok.

But WTH is your son supposed to do about it??? You are asking him to make a very unhealthy choice here. No matter which way he chooses, it is going to be emotionally damaging.

What he's already gone through has been traumatic enough. Yes, it was his father's choices that brought this situation on.

But *you* are the one who is now (essentially) telling your son he must either reject his father, or else you will reject him.

SW-
The OP is not the reason why your family was torn apart. Your family was torn apart by your husband's inability to have appropriate/poor boundaries.

You can't control your son's thoughts about the relationship between his dad and the OW. At best, you can use it as a teachable moment about choices you make and explain why you feel the way you do. But, it's not your son's responsiblity to pass judgement on his dad.

And it's not your responsibility to pass judgement on others. One can have boundaries for behaviors that they will or will not tolerate. That's where it ends. The real world is NOT black and white. That's something I've had to learn as I've emotionally matured. I grew up thinking one was either right or wrong, and I was entitled to make that decision. I also learned black and white thinking has not served my personal relationships well.

I've been triangulated between family members as a child. It's really not a great experience. I'm wondering now, if you will maybe work on a plan on how to handle parenting issues with your ex.

Just think about what your mom said. What her first reaction was.

She KNOWS you. She LOVES you, and your son.

Because you are dealing with the real world. In the real world, your XH now has the right to be with whomever he wants. And if you want your son to have any kind of relationship with his father, she WILL be in the picture. That is the real world.

SW, your whole post is about YOU. Not your son. YOU.

Time to rise above that, for your son's sake.

That is a REALLY good point. She wasn't some siren who made your XH lose all control. By placing all the blame on this woman, you are doing EVERYONE a disservice. Like I said, you have a tendency (at least on here) to vilify people, to find that one person on whom you can place all blame (and it's not usually yourself, btw). Before it was her (before you knew there was a 'her'), it was your H.

I see that in my H ALL.THE.TIME. It's ALWAYS everyone else's fault. Great. That's fine, if that's the way he needs to be. I get it. But what purpose does it solve? It closes all doors to solutions and improvements. I've asked him to ask himself why he has to pick just one person on whom it's all their fault; he says he doesn't know; and he can't help it. But he would be a lot happier if he could figure it out, because hatred is a horrible thing. I can just see it eating him alive.

Isn't forgiveness so much healthier?

Smiling, I see a pattern with you treating your son as a "fellow adult" and "a sounding board" and laying stuff on him that no child should have to bear. Also you are clearly USING the son as a way to get back at his father for picking the OW.

1. First you take away his $10.00 allowance TELLING HIM IT IS DADS FAULT YOU DO NOT HAVE MONEY TO EAT!!!! This is USING a child to take out your anger on the husband and the OW.

2. Now you make the OW sound like the devil to the child. This makes it impossible to be able to love his own father. It puts an "adult conflict" in his mind and now it will corrupt his reationship with this father. Do you want his relationship with his father to be forever ruined, is this your goal? Because of your hatred for him? Because this is what will happen now because of you.


You need to get on with your life, get some public assistance so you can afford to eat and pay your son his $10.00 allowance and QUIT LAYING STUFF ON A KID THAT SHOULD NOT EVER BE LAID ON CHILDREN.

If you need to be bitter against OW come here and vent or get a counselor and vent to them.

PLEASE DO NOT USE YOUR PRECIOUS SON AS A COUNSELOR, A LITTLE MAN OF THE FAMILY, OR A CRYING TOWEL. PLEASE DO NOT CHARACTERIZE YOUR HUSBAND AS THE DEVIL TO YOUR SON.

You are doing more damage to your son than your husband did to you. Do you see that?

SW, yes, MB is all about boundaries and honesty and POJA and ENs and LBs and all the other things that go into building an emotionally healthy and romantically charged marriage. Everyone wins, everyone benefits. And I think Dr. Harley agrees that most cases (except where there is abuse), it is to the children's advantage to have their parents in a romantic, healthy relationship. He believes he has the tools to teach us how to do that and when we mess up (affairs, etc.), the tools to get us back on track.

Hence the MB stance on the affair partner. Of course, while you are married, the children must not be exposed to the affair or the affair partner. It flies in the face of every marriage covenant.

But you are no longer married.

Your ex is no longer married.

You can both date whomever you want.

And I agree with IRN that it was NOT this woman who broke up the marriage. It was your ex and his lack of boundaries, EPs and a whole host of other mistakes he made. He made terrible choices and abused you terribly in the course of doing so. And your son will suffer from that.

But it's time for the two of them to figure out how to forge their own relationship. Sure, teach your son that infidelity is wrong and immmoral. And it's what Dad did and it's why you are no longer married. But what he's doing now?

That's called dating.

Ok.I give.

SW - I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Cat...

You're going to have to focus on what you can control, and I think the only thing that I remember reading about here is possibly inserting some rules in your custody agreement that he not sleep over when she's at his place, and that he has a separate bedroom. No drinking might be a good idea too...

Her son...he's a child likely, right? Just as much a victim of a parent's indiscretions as your son...innocent...not tainted because of his mother...just a child...

The exception would be if you found out he was a delinquent, had behavioral issues, etc. Then I could see making some changes to ensure your son's safety and well being are taken care of. And it floors me that his stepfather would consider cutting him off from his other siblings because of her.

Be careful, SW...be very, very careful not to use your son as a pawn in all of this.

I also want to add that what this woman did wasn't right, but it almost sounded to me like you placed all the blame on her rather than your husband. I mean...your husband has/had a porn addiction and had at least one other affair. He's been wayward far before this woman came along...he's been slowly chiseling away at the marriage for years on end.

She is THE reason your dad and I got divorced. She is THE reason your family is not together. And that fact doesn't change just because we are divorced now...she will ALWAYS be THE reason.'

And you're telling your son that it's all because of her that you're divorced now?

SW...what I mean is that your son is just a kid. Let him be a kid.

This OW...what she did was immoral, but her immorality is no longer your concern or your son's unless it infringes on his well being, his safety. It's between her and God.

Your husband is dating. What you can do is ask your exh to consider if it's wise to introduce your son to someone he isn't very serious about.

Perhaps this is actually something you two can POJA on. As far fetched as it seems, perhaps when it comes to your son only, maybe you two can reach a point where you can express your concerns and come up with an agreement about timing when it comes to introducing your son to someone each of you is very serious about. I realize you don't HAVE to do that, but wouldn't it be nice if you two could talk this through and discuss it like concerned parents?

Maybe you can tell him that you don't intend to introduce your son to any romantic interests until it has become very serious. You can tell him you don't want to get his hopes up or confuse him, and you hope he will consider doing the same.

The problem was that you, Smily chose and married this man. Had you realized who this man was, the porn and women, then you might have not had kids with him. You might not have had this problem now. It was partly your fault you met, dated, married, had children with, and stayed with this kind of man.

You cannot blame THE OTHER WOMAN, or your own son, for your bad decision here which was your failure to pick a better father for him.

Bingo!

If you allow your son to be with your XH, then you already allow him around such folks. The OW is really little different than your XH.

You may not realize you are saying this, but you are saying that he shouldn't be with folks like that.

But since legally speaking, you can't keep your child away from XH, you really have little to gain and a lot to lose by trying to tell your child he shouldn't be with OW.

Give your child credit, he will figure out what values and morals he wants to adopt. Not based on what you tell him, but based on his observations of how each of you lives.

You simply make your life a more appealing choice than theirs. You have no control over what happens when he's with your XH. But you do have ultimate control over what happens when he's with you.

Live a life worthy of emulation, and don't worry about what your XH is doing.

I forgot that legally your son has the right to see his father. Legally he has the right to be with the OW. You cannot stop it.

So, whatever you say against them is not only worthless but damaging and puts the son in a terrible position.

Say NOTHING about the OW or your terrible husband. For now. This will be less stressful for the son. It is stressful enough for the son and I am sure you go on and on every day about how terrible his father and the OW are.

I know you need to vent but please vent here or with a counselor. Venting this poison to your son, just because you need to for your own purposes, will hurt him.