"arsenal" has been de-censored. Thanks, Barnboy.

Another book you might want to read is "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass.

What is gaslighting?

When WSs make you feel like you are being silly/crazy/paranoid for thinking something is going on...

Susie, isn't the term from a old b/w movie where the husband was making his wife feel like she is crazy for thinking he was cheating?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

"An example of gaslighting being used in real life was by the Manson Family during their "creepy crawler" burglaries during which nothing was stolen, but furniture in the house was rearranged."

"...even today the word [gaslight] is used to describe an attempt to destroy another's perception of reality."

The goal of gaslighting is to try to get someone to buy into a fictional version of reality, ideally while questioning the truth of their own perceptions. The goals can be many, but in the case of infidelity, it is so that the spouse backs off from investigation. It differs from a straight-up lie in that the goal is to make the betrayed question their own sanity.

Here are a few classic lines used by partners participating in infidelity. Maybe they will help clue you in that you're being gaslighted:

* "We knew you were watching/listening, that's why we wrote/said that stuff. We were just messing with you."
* "Friends help each other. I'm helping OW/OM. Do you really want to control my friends?"
* "Friends tell each other they love each other." (usually this is accompanied by an increase in ILYs toward relatives and friends under the pretense the wayward has been telling all these people s/he loves them all the time)
* "We connect on a spiritual level you couldn't understand because you are X." Where X is typically a different religion or a nonbeliever.
* "Let's talk about your abandonment issues," or feelings of betrayal, or lack of trust, or whatever, "and see what might have happened in your past, perhaps with your parents or siblings, that are causing those feelings."
* "Our problems have nothing to do with OM/OW. What are our specific relationship problems, and how do you think we can resolve them?" Typically this one is accompanied by an increased effort from the wayward spouse to meet those other "issues", whether it's sex or conversation or time together, at least for a while. They act as if if they meet this need, you should be happy about OM/OW in your life...
* "There must be something else going on besides OM/OW for you to feel this way. Is there something you are hiding from me?"
* "We just came back from this event that OM/OW was at. You saw how we behaved around one another; do you see now there is nothing going on? Tell me why you now know there's nothing going on."

FWW used every one of those lines on me. This is gaslighting. It is also sometimes called crazy-making, because the goal of gaslighting is to induce confusion and guilt into the betrayed party, and it makes us a little crazy because we're being convinced to believe something in opposition to reality.

"Gaslight" is an old movie yes and it is an example of what we use here for deception. There was an attempt to drivea woman crazy in the movie too.

Dear Regulus:
go to Dr. Nancy Kalish's website: www.lostlovers.com and read her articles and the stories in the members stories forum.

Affairs between former highschool sweethearts fall into a special category. Your husband is dealing with a "lost love" situation. Dr. Kalish has studied these kind of relationships for many years. There seem to be deep emotional bonds between people who loved each other in their youth. It can be extremely destructive to a marriage. It is aggarvated by the circumstance that your husband's friend is ill and may die.
All the best to you.

Dear Regulus:
go to Dr. Nancy Kalish's website: www.lostlovers.com and read her articles and the stories in the members stories forum.

Affairs between former highschool sweethearts fall into a special category. Your husband is dealing with a "lost love" situation. Dr. Kalish has studied these kind of relationships for many years. There seem to be deep emotional bonds between people who loved each other in their youth. It can be extremely destructive to a marriage. It is aggarvated by the circumstance that your husband's friend is ill and may die.
All the best to you.

Dear Regulus:
go to Dr. Nancy Kalish's website: www.lostlovers.com and read her articles and the stories in the members stories forum.

Affairs between former highschool sweethearts fall into a special category. Your husband is dealing with a "lost love" situation. Dr. Kalish has studied these kind of relationships for many years. There seem to be deep emotional bonds between people who loved each other in their youth. It can be extremely destructive to a marriage. It is aggarvated by the circumstance that your husband's friend is ill and may die.
All the best to you.

Dear Regulus:
go to Dr. Nancy Kalish's website: www.lostlovers.com and read her articles and the stories in the members stories forum.

Affairs between former highschool sweethearts fall into a special category. Your husband is dealing with a "lost love" situation. Dr. Kalish has studied these kind of relationships for many years. There seem to be deep emotional bonds between people who loved each other in their youth. It can be extremely destructive to a marriage. It is aggarvated by the circumstance that your husband's friend is ill and may die.
All the best to you.

Wow - a triple posting.

Make that quadruplet !

Sorry Pepper,
oops. Sorry about the multiple posts. I haven't posted in ages and I got a "page not found" answer with this new forum software. I cannot access the threads either from the main page. Do you guys know, if you need a special new browser version for this new forum?
Thanks, IP

lost lovers...H claims the two of them never dated. She was in the popular crowd and he wasn't, and she was also helping him work out inadequacy issues stemming from high school. It was a very small school. I never knew my H had an inferiority complex from his school days. We�re middle aged, for goodness sakes, who still cares what a bunch of over self-interested teenagers thought about you? Anyway�

Where we are now: Have had several talks. He's stunned I see this as an infidelity because he never felt that was what he was doing. He completely understands why I feel that way, and feels terrible. He has begun sharing more of his FB conversations with me, (not those he has with OW, if he does have any), and is making a great effort to be more open and affectionate with me.

I'm having serious trust issues, as I don't believe anyone can just cut off such an intense EA cold turkey. I've created a FB imposter page, and check his page every day. No posts from OW are visible on his wall, so believe he's filtering them. He had said on our DDay that he knew I was snooping on his email and FB pages (I have passwords for both) though, I don't know how he knew; so now I'm not logging on any more. Since they know I can log on, I doubt they'd say anything they don't want me to see anyway. If I press for total transparency, and they're still carrying on, they'll just create a way to communicate that I don't have access to (they already have his work email).

I�ve been struggling to get a free trial keylogger to work on another computer completely under the radar, and not much luck so far. So, I'm saving pennies to buy a secure keylogger..not because I can't currently afford one, but because I can't use either credit card without him knowing about it. So need to scrape some cash together and buy something in a store rather than on line.

Until then, every day, I try not to let suspicion eat me alive, and try not to smash his computer to bits every time he's on FB playing Mafia and Pirates, and chatting with who knows whom.

HOW OLD IS THIS GUY?!! Tell him to get a life and get OFF OF THE COMPUTER. Go restore a car or something else manly. Playing around on the computer is for teenage nerds..DUDE

So he thinks he is FINALLY going to get the hot chick from high school on her deathbed? Is this going to be some sort of victory?

He has more problems than suspected.

Regulus, sorry to see you are here. But you will get good advice from the MB veterans

Ok, well, finally got a keylogger just in time for the MLK holiday. I figured if they were emailing during the work-week (she's in another state), 3 days might be too long, and I'd get a bite. I got bit all right.

FB chat has them talking about a movie (Ace of Hearts)and a moonlight scene that makes my WH long to see that look in her eyes, and makes her long to feel my WH so close.

She also sent him a link to a youtube music video from the movie "Fireproof", words I'd say to you, or something like that. Funny thing is, I told him the other day I was getting the movie for us (part of my Plan A plan), to help build our marriage. Timing of video link makes me think he mentioned to OW, which just enrages me.

WH "shared" with me earlier this week, before I had a chance to view the keylogger logs, that OW was getting worse, having 2 radiation treatments a week, and bleeding heavily. He actually asked me to find it in my heart to pray for her. It's amazing that event though she's having bi-weekly treatments, hemorrhaging, and transfusions, that she can still work 2 jobs and care for her 3 children. WH thinks she's so brave and full of Christian love because she never complains, just prays, and spreads the Gospel.

I don't feel this little exchange is enough to fully and irrefutably expose EA, and will keep monitoring for another week or so

I can't bring myself to watch the Ace of Hearts movie to see what they're talking about (can't figure out when WH ever watched it); nor can I bring myself to watch the music video.

Question: Should we watch the Fireproof movie anyway? He knows I�ve ordered it on Netflix. I don�t know if I could keep my composure when that song plays, and I certainly don�t want to do anything to make him think of OW.

Another question: How do I keep from metaphorically bashing his brains in every time he tells me he loves me, and every time he touches me?