No worries stillhere8126, apology accepted.

You have stated your second point a number of times now on this thread and been asked to explain what it means. You have never done so.

You are making a serious claim about SH's professional competency, perhaps even his integrity. You should either provide evidence for what you say or withdraw the statements. Those comments could damage SH's reputation unfairly. Where I live, that is called libel.

SC: please read my previous posts...my detailed notes from meetings with SH are safely stored out of my house.

And from my original post:

"When our conversation ended I found myself disenchanted, disappointed and even a little angry.

I am not writing this to bash Dr. Harley, his principles, MB.com or anyone on this board. I am writing this because it is the truth as I experienced it. I learned a great deal from these boards and grew tremendously over the past year.

As Dr. Harley himself told me, �I am a marriage counselor, not a divorce counselor.� I firmly believe if you are interested in trying to recover your marriage after an affair, this is the place for you. I have found no other support system, philosophies or principles that compare to MB.com with regard to marriage recovery. MB.com is simply the best in that regard.

However, if you make the decision to divorce, I humbly suggest you move on...(there, I said it)"

My comments here were neither false or untrue, nor do I question his professional character or standing. I'm simply stating that I was disenchanged, disappointed and even a little angry.

LG - I wouldn't have expected you to need notes to be able to say what principles Steve Harley has broken. That doesn't make a lick of sense.

LG,

I read your initial post on your interactions with Steve Harley (SH) and my take on the situation was somewhat different to everything I have read here, so I will offer it up to you for your thoughts.

In "typical" circumstances SH will counsel with a WS who is sure they want to divorce and see nothing left to salvage in the marriage. The WS may even state their belief that they are only undergoing the counseling to help their BS move on with their lives. Deep down, however, there has to be the belief that a WS who is willing to undergo any form of marriage counseling must care for their spouse and see at least a faint hope in recovery. SH works to make the WS see that there is value in the marriage if they can stop the A and work to recommit and rebuild. On the flip side, SH counsels with the BS to work on plan A and show the WS that there is still a marriage to salvage.

I see your situation as a reversal in roles. You had been through enough to make the decision to divorce, yet you agreed to participate in the counseling. You were taking on a role similar to the WS. Your participation signified to SH that you had interest in the recovery of your wife and, while you may have expressed otherwise, the glimmer of the recovery of your marriage. He would not have been doing his job as a marriage counselor if he did not approach it in this manner.

On the flip side, your WW would have been expressing hope for recovery and SH would have been working with her on ways to show you that she was committed and wanted to recover the marriage.

The fact that you counseled with SH and were resolute in your decision to divorce should give you some comfort. Your were presented with the option of putting your heart on the line once again to pursue recovery with an expert but you had learned enough about yourself and your WW throughout this experience to know that it was not something you could commit to.

SH did his job in presenting the opportunity and you made the right decision for yourself based on your experiences and feelings.

I have no issue with LG's position. The people who post here have many ups and many, many downs.
Many people would say that his divorce is the natural and expected result of a person who found out about multipe affairs.

I give him props for trying to help his WS handle the situation, I don't think I would have been so nice.

I don't blame dr. H for his posisiton of attempting to recover either. It his job and he does it better than most.

Of course, I think he is doing what the majority do, especially multiple A's equals STRAIGHT TO PLAN D in my book. However, to get on here and blast Harley for still trying to save his M is preposterous. Just get your plan D overwith and party like a rockstar or whatever else 40 something divorcees do...DUDE

Interesting thread, LG...

A few comments if I may:

I don't blame SH one bit for trying to talk you into giving your M one more chance. As he said, he's a "marriage counselor not a divorce counselor" (and Thank God for that--we already have way too many counselors who pose as one but actually further the other).

The fact that you agreed to counseling undoubtedly made SH feel like it was worth the effort. I know you stated that you "were only doing it to help stbxWW grow" (and maybe that's true), but it must have smelled like an OPPORTUNITY to someone as devoted to marriage as SH is.

Honorable intentions aside, it seems to me that your stbxWW doesn't need YOUR participation for her own personal growth and healing. She needs IC (among other things) for that.

I too have noticed that, SH's persistence aside (which clearly annoyed you), you never specifically laid out how he "contradicted his own MB principles"....are you going to tell us?

Despite all the above, I do not blame you one bit for your decision to go to Plan D. A single-affair-WS is salvageable (not always, but definitely worth the BS being open to). A WS who has had multiple affairs/multiple OPs is MANY YEARS away from being emotionally-mature-marriage-material, if they ever get there at all. IMHO, multiple affairs (3+) = Plan D asap.

LG was VERY respectful when he spoke about the Harleys. I saw NO blasting going on. Unless we are not allowed to have contrary views here? Toe the line and speak the praises, or get out of Dodge?

I'm just happy you are away from this misanthrope, D. Heal, now. Enjoy your kids and life.

Yes, young lady....now out!

LG is saying; this is my position. This is what happened and this is how I feel about it.

Is that not a true value and core belief of MB? My H is in a MLC from heck! MB does not take a strong stance about or against this very real scenario. I am conflicted about the advice on this topic/stage of life, but I find so much good here, I keep coming back!

Is this still being discussed???

Why???

JL

I've been trying to figure out what the big deal is from the first post...

I would like to hear where SH contradicted MB principals, but the rest of this doesn't even come across as a scathing commentary on MB.

Mark

I agree Mark. I do think it's bad to claim such a thing and then be unable to remember the details though and that is my only question.

Right, I would think that if one was so very upset that this had occurred, there would be no reason for "notes"...Anytime I've been particularly peeved by something I've not needed anything to jog my memory as to why...

Mrs. W

I think LG has a responsibility to back up his statements.

I think if he has accused SH of contradicting the MB principals he should be able to provide a few examples.

Its a huge disservice to a new board-member to read this thread and be left with the impression that SH contradicts the principals. (Not to mention the fact that he initially accused DOCTOR Harley, before that got corrected...)

I think (might be wrong) that LG thought he was working with the elder SH who motto is if his wife had an affair he would divorce her on the spot.

SH jr. is the one (if I read correctly) wanted to talk about reconnecting with his STBX, since he was meeting with him, in a way I can understand, because like so many posted the WS is always sure they want that divorce, later to change their minds.

His motto? He has written that he would divorce. How does that become his motto?

The motto of Marriage Builders, which Dr Willard Harley created (there is no such person as "the elder SH") is "building marriages to last a lifetime".

Dr Willard Harley created the MB tools to rebuild a marriage after an affair. Even if LG thought he was working with him, he would not have been under the assumption that he was being coached into how to divorce his wife on the spot.

You can divorce your wife on the spot on your own. You do not need a coaching centre called Marriage Builders to help you do that.

There is no such person as SH jr. Steve Harley, Dr Willard Harley's son, coaches clients using the tools and concepts developed by his father, and supervised by him. You don't get divorce coaching from one and marriage coaching from the other, and LG knew that, so yes, you were wrong.

IMHO, THIS is the statement that needs to be clarified:


Specifically, what priniciples did Dr. H (or whomever) contradict? How?

So Dr Harley said he would instantly PLAN D his wife, but somehow made all this great material to save other marriages? Thats plausible but strange..DUDE