Dud(e)

"Stop trying to make yourself feel superior because your adultery was retaliatory, Dude...Your justifications/rationalizations are no different than the ones the original WS had - they all stink - they are all wrong...Your excuses are just that, EXCUSES...adultery is adultery..."

Still up to your old tricks.

Yeah, I'm saying I KNEW FULL WELL WHAT EVIL(Read bad here) it was. Supposedly there are these little set of rules(POJA) that prevent people from doing these EVIL things. Its a detailed agreement, but would have the same committment as wedding vows. No old tricks, just the truth..DUDE

Its great to do things as a couple, but most healthy mariages can allow for some independent time. I think that is wonderful and that is healthy. You can read on here in about five minutes of all the BS on here who have resentment. I can't beleive you think I'm "inferring" it. Thats wayward talk if I ever heard it. DUDE

PS "And he didn't Plan D or have a revenge affair" Your story is not yet written. we don't know what feelings he may harbor or even know yet what may set him off for a plan D in the future. You two seem to be doing good but don't delude yourself as some MB posterchildren. DUDE

Just the other day a group of folks was taking to dinner a fellow who was moving out of the area. I had only a week ago learned that he had had an affair a number of years ago.

I didn't go to the dinner.

I have never since the day i got married thought that my M should allow for independent behavior.......

Despite having lived this nightmare of infidelity as a Bs in tow marriages, i agree with Dude. No way do I want to have no independent behaviors in my marriage. I would want someone I could trust to be out on her own, at times. Life is just too short to play prison guard with one's spouse.
And, I realize I am terrible at picking women of integrity. So, I will accept my limitations and stay out of the marital playing field. As Dirty Harry said " A man's got to know his limitations."

I have great respect for someone who knows when they cannot go any further, and so they stop. For that BS who says honestly, "I cannot continue," and so they don't. That, in my opnion, is the noble thing for them to do.

The truly sad thing is when someone stays so that they can eenjoy the lifelong punishment of a repentant human being. It is much nobler to divorce than to do that.

If LG (or anyone else) knows within themselves the truth that they just couldn't continue with such pain, then the opnion of outsiders really isn't even relevant. I made the horrific choice to commit adultery 3 1/2 years ago. It was awful. I confessed, repented, and worked. We are in recovery. It doesn't really matter who does or doesn't THINK I have repented or that my H is healing. All that matters is the truth. It took me a long time to get to that point.

Divorce is a choice, and only the person involved can make it. So are reconciliation, continued waywardness, and holding on to bitterness for dear life. Most of life really is about choices.

Well Dude, independent behavior IS a lovebuster. Take from that what you will. Sure, AFTER you've met your 15 hours/week of time with your spouse, and your 15 hours/week with your family, and you add in work and sleep - if you've got time left over then you can use it to pursue other activities - so long as you have the enthusiastic agreement of your spouse to do so...You may think that sounds like prison - Mr. W and I do not. Our marriage and family are the most important things to us - spending all of our time together IS living to us now...

I'll not argue with you about what is to come in our lives...Suffice it to say that I do not for a second lend any credence to your predictions about our story though...We're good, thanks.

Mrs. W

I really do not think that most of the Bss I have encountered who want to try to reconcile are the types who would forever rub the Ws's face in the cheating. But, many of the Bss I know never got to see true remorse or acceptance of responsibility.
Just about 6 months ago, my first wife, a serial cheater par excellance, offered me the following apology(14 years post D-day: " I am sorry I cheated. But, you know, there was a lot more going on in our marriage that led to it. My emotional needs were not being met."

Well, duh. She was out 5 nightas a week drinking while i cared for our toddlers. I was not about to listen to her bogus, new age, pseudo psych crap. I was trying to get a few hours sleep, before she would wake me up to describe the physique of the guy she was with that night.

Fred,

Do you know if this man has repented? I certainly understand and respect your position if he has not. As a recovering alcoholic yourself, I am sure you can appreciate that people can and do change though, yes?

Mrs. W

Regardlees of the guy's repentance, at this stage of Fred's recovery, I think it is not a bad idea to avoid former cheaters. There is an urge to launch into them.
My housemate is a decent guy who cheated on his wife and kids and paid the divorce price. Initially, it was hard not to argue with him about what he had done. He is in denial and sees it as no big deal.

CORRECT!! And abiding by a POJA or sticking to your wedding VOWS or DIVORCING or RECONCILING, is all just a CHOICE! You are doing really good my friend. REAL GOOD! DUDE

Tell him that when she Divorced him it was not big deal...DUDE

Well yeah, Zelmo, that pretty much screams NOT REPENTANT, yanno? There is a VAST difference between a truly repentant FWS and a WS - it sounds to me like your housemate is still WAYWARD - regardless if he is having an affair or not...Wayward is a mindset...

A repentant FWS wouldn't give you a reason to want to "launch into them"...They will AGREE with you about how terrible they were...They are more acutely aware of how bad they were than anyone else...

Mrs. W

Football games, golfing, car wash, best friends bachelor party, barber shop? Wow, you must have a lot of time on your hands??! WTF That ain't a marriage. That is SHACKLES...DUDE

I'm w/ you. Who wants to be married to someone, wondering who their texting, can't go to any sporting events alone. Can't go camping? What kinda life is that! That AIN'T MARRIAGE! DUDE

You are misinterpreting because you don't live it...First, Mr. W and I PREFER to do those things together - He is the MOST FUN person I know and vice versa - WHY wouldn't we prefer the company of each other? And sure if someone offers him a ticket to go to a game and we are still able to get in our time and family time, then of course I want him to go! His happiness is at the forefront of my mind! POJA ensures that each spouse WINS, Dude...It is not a win/lose situation, and yet that is the mindset that you are approaching this from...

Read and learn...Have you considered a Marriage Builders Weekend for you and your ex-wife?

Mrs. W

Mrs. W., I think for a newly betrayed BS, or one who is still in the process of dissolving their marriage and lifestyle as Fred is, they don't really care if the adulterer is repentent or not. The adulterer is simply disgusting. I felt like this for a long time. Now I don't care so much because I realize they can't hurt me at all and there are too many to avoid altogether. There is no way I would put myself in a position where a known adulterer, repentant or otherwise, could hurt me again. I work with them, ride the bus with them and probably pay them to service my car or fix my house. But I won't form a relationship with one - not even a friendship. They aren't my enemies or anything, I just won't allow them to get close enough to me. It's a self defense mechanism, not a religious principal.

Its not a prediction. I wish you all the best, but your story is not yet written. I hope your husband's best friend doesn't have a bachelor party at a sports bar or he is gonna be real embarrased w/ Mrs Shackles shooting pool w/ all the boys. Does he take you to his fantasy football drafts as well? That is totally CRAZY and not any marriage MOST people would want, I'm sorry. I know you screwed up and have done marvelous studying/recovering, but that is INSANE to not let your spouse have some time alone. CRAZY SHEET! DUDE

So you would refrain from being friends w/ MRS W the MB posterchild if you met her in person and she told you she committed adultery? DUDE