Inability to act�hah�it is to laugh�

You would die of fits on the spot if you were ever polite, huh.

SF seems to not be as high on my list of ENs as it is on yours.

My ENs in general come second to the children�s welfare.

My planning and my decisions lead to different goals than yours do.

My sense of proper timing is obviously different too.

And, well, in a nutshell, what I may and may not want is not nearly as important as what is right.

HOLY CRAP, TEN YEARS, AND NOT BOOTY!!! PLAN D is RIGHT, plus maybe some revenge on that kinda crazy sheet! She is lucky wasn't married to me..DUDE

Yes, you prefer that "moral floating absolutism" I see.

Everything is relative, especially man-made concepts like religion.

-ol' 2long

Catchy. Can I borrow this?

Hoo boy, here we go�

Time for me to put down the mouse and back away from the screen.

I kind of liken my M to a journey on a ship. My W and I are equal captains of the ship.

When it's my watch on the wheel, I am responsible to keep the ship righted in the safe direction. On her watch she is responsible to do the same.

My W used to like to play chicken with the rocks, and eventually ran us aground. She was not faithful to her duties. It affected both of us profoundly.

The ship has been repaired at great cost to both of us, and we are back on course. If she would do this again, I, for one, would take to a life boat with a full sail and a stiff breeze at my back.

We are both fully aware of this.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Is that absolutely true?

That's all fine and well, however, could you please stop blaming MB for YOUR CHOICES? Thanks!

Sarcasm is lost on me. Sardonicism, too. But I bet that had to hurt your head some anyway. Take two Tylenol and lie down for the rest of the day.

And yes, I do blame MB. I will continue to do so.

I did it by the book and it didn�t work.

There is so much that does not add up about MB recovery advice. The claims on the box to not match the spec sheet within.

Oh, MB methods did indeed destroy the VLTA very efficiently, but MB recovery methods in the end did not help me, personally, at all. Just made me all the angrier once I realized how much time I wasted trying to recover. Instant D is a much better plan for VLTAs.

MB simply did not work in my sitch, yet I even did it with an MB trained coach (one of the few at the time). I do not think MB works well (not much more so than random chance) for recovery from anything but the most ordinary garden variety adultery. There it appears to help.


PS: Here is one thing among many that does not add up: DrH sates in several places recovery from LTAs and from VLTAs is very, very difficult. States it is almost impossible, in fact. That definitely implies M�s do not recover in the case of such adulterous outliers. Yet elsewhere a 100% success rate for happy recovery from adultery is claimed. This is a bait-and-switch. I was sucked in. Indeed, I have ended up losing all love for FWW precisely because of MB advice and instruction. But then again maybe I would have anyway. I am not going to get past her 10 years of sex with OM after all. I would have listened to myself in this right away but for MB blowing so much smoke up my posterior about how it�s best to ignore what I knew deep down from the beginning and just do it (it being MB recovery methods).

There needs to be a triage assessment somewhere up front.

aph

I don't remember your plan A if there was a plan B, x y or z!
Whether you came on board right away, or resisted doing things the MB way.

Or if you everything perfect right from the start.

It has been made clear when poster's come here MB is not 100% effective. But it is one of the most effective ways to save a marriage. It is clearly pointed out that doing things such as exposure is the best thing to do but not alway's 100% effective.

I don't remember how you found out or what your WW did post D day. So I won't blame you or her for not recovering.

However you choose to end it. So don't be mad at us or MB for you deciding to end your marriage.

We did not bang your WW for ten years.

Aph, if you are so bitter about this place, why are you here? I'm sorry your M didn't work out, or at least not how you wanted it to. If I understand correctly, you are still married and you are still cohabitating with your WW, are you not? I'm fully aware that absence of an active affair and cohabitation alone do not equal recovery.

If your situation is truly hopeless, what's stopping you from divorcing? If you are simply waiting for your kids to grow up and move out, I'm afraid there's nothing that's going to help you with your resentment. This is a decision you've made and part of it involves swallowing that resentment until the time is up. Nobody here has recommended this as far as I know. I can't imagine anybody would. MB methods are supposed to help you build a loving marriage, not a resentful one. You can't blame MB if you are only sticking it out for this reason. You have to WANT the loving marriage if there is any hope for you to achieve it.

That said, back to my first question - why are you here? Have you tried any other systems? Have they helped/hurt? Was there anythign to be learned from them that you could share? Or did you just try the one thing (MB) halfheartedly and then blame it because it failed?

You say you should have just gone for a quick divorce. Now you won't divorce. What do you want? Which is it? You have to pick one side of the fence or another. The fence posts start to drive into your a$$ if you sit on it for too long.

Amen, Pepperband.

I would only add that Marriage Builders never claims anywhere to be able to save a marriage from an affair. In fact, Dr Harley has claimed that Plan A only works 15% of the time. When it doesn't work, Plan B is warranted. You have never done that, Aphelion. Even so, Dr Harley never guarantees to save any marriage from an affair when one party won't end her affair. He recommends a separation.

What MB does do is give participants a 100% guarantee that the program will work IF IT IS WORKED. By TWO willing, active parties. They obviously cannot force someone to work it against their will and have never made any such guarantee.

Aphelion, in your case, I am not aware of you ever calling Marriage Builders and availing yourself of any of their programs, ie: phone coaching, MB weekend seminar, online course, home study course, nothing. NOTHING. A program obviously can't work if you don't use it. That is not the same as some counselor who had a few courses from MB but is not affiliated with them, endorsed by them, or certified by them.

If anything you should be blaming HER for the failure since you used her, rather than the enterprise you didn't use. Blaming the program you didnt use seems somewhat irrational. Blaming your wife's bad choices on others assumes they ever had control over her. More irrationalism.

The only person who can be blamed for your wife's choices is your wife, Aphelion. And only you can be blamed for tolerating it. You are a volunteer in your own bad marriage, not a victim.

I think the 100% number is just rounded up to the nearest whole number from 99.7943% anyway.

Aph,

What I AM confused about is your penchant for distancing yourself from waywards (former or otherwise) and yet you hitched your personal and marital recovery up to a coach whom I believe is a wayward spouse in an affair marriage herself. Her MB Training merely means she took some classes from the Harley's on how to coach using the MB program and is a far cry from actual MB coaching. She's not affiliated with MB at all. I think she's also a practicing witch. She doesn't even believe in MB (she's written to the effect that she and her program are beyond and above MB).

I'm sorry she failed you...but I'm not surprised at all.

We'll never know what you AND your wife could have accomplished if YOUR WIFE had gotten on board with the ACTUAL MB program (the most difficult part to accomplish with longterm waywards and why recovery with LT waywards is so hard), attended the seminar and done the MB lesson plans in full.

Mr. Wondering

I THINK A TEN YEAR AFFAIR IS BEYOND MB TO SAVE THE M. IT MAYBE BEYOND GOD TO SAVE THAT M!! Think aboout it. TEN YEARS! Most people don't even stay married TEN YEARS, but she kept an A alive THAT LONG. THAT IS STRAIGHT TO D IF I'VE EVER HEARD IT! NO GOOGLE SEARCH REQUIRED! SCREW THAT!! DUDE

Here is the thing, Dude. Marriage Builders can't save a marriage with a 2 MONTH affair if the affair never ends and the WS never commits to the marriage. That is an impossible task and MB makes no such claim.

What MB does recommend is PLAN B and then a DIVORCE if the affair doesn't end within 2 years.