I wouldn't even expect GOD himself to save a marriage w/ a ten year affair. NO WAY! Could you imagine living ten years of your life as a TOTAL LIE??! DUDE

I am very skeptical about the claimed success rate, as well. I know haewly says Plan A works 15% of the time and Plan B less so. So, by his own admission, the Plans do not lead to more than 30% recovery.
So, then we get to the 100% success claim. At first, it seems irreconcilable with his the stated rates of success for the Plans.
But, in actuality, if you look at the wording, he is saying that IF the two people work his program diligently, they will become happy.
I could make the same claim for , say, a weight loss program. I could admit that most unmotivated folks deop out or never heed the advice on weight loss. Yet, i could also clim that I can guarranty 100% success for those who strictly abide by my exercise and calorie intake recommendations.

See , it is just a circular type of deal or a trick with words. I would bet my golf clubs that there are folks who came to the program and made some effort to recover , who have not done so. But, the claim would then become that they did not work the program, thus, the 100% rate is not affected.

Aph, you may be pissed by having wasted time . But, cut your losses asap. In reality, as i recall your story, you have a monster for a wife and nothing would have worked. These programs are designed for messsed up, but still non-malignant type WSs.

AND FURTHER, NO MARRIAGE IS RECOVERABLE FROM A TEN YEAR AFFAIR! NONE! The affair partners experienced their own ten year anniversary. NO WAY! No program. There is a better chance for peace in the middle east over recovery from a TEN YEAR AFFAIR!! DUDE

Actually, the record is 22.67 years. They made a wonderful recovery and are happier than ever. They used the modified MB program, employing surrogates for a while.

I'd love a surrogate spouse,is that a fancy word for OP? WOW! And Harley endorses it..ROCK ON!! DUDE

Zelmo, you are confusing the Marriage Builders program with Plan A and Plan B because you have never even READ a Marriage Builders book. The guarantee is made about his program that is based on his BASIC CONCEPTS as outlined in His Needs, Her Needs.

That has nothing to do with Plan A and Plan B, which are designed to help in AFFAIR situations. He makes NO guarantee about Plan A and Plan B. In fact, he says Plan A FAILS to end the affair in 85% of the cases! He says there are no good answers!

There is NO WHERE that Dr Harley claims to be able to end an affair. NOWHERE. In fact, he states clearly that Plan A only works to end the affair FIFTEEN PERCENT OF THE TIME. He makes absolutely no gurantees about affairs. NONE.'

His guarantee is this: if you implement my BASIC CONCEPTS, I guarantee that you will FALL IN LOVE.

Now, in order to implement his program, there has to be TWO willing parties. If there are not 2 willing parties, he obviously cannot guarantee anything.


Yes, it is tricky devil advertising to say that one has to ACTUALLY USE the program in order for it to work! How tricky is that! I was looking for a program I didn't have to ACTUALLY USE in order to get results!

Them tricky devils at Marriage Builders!

Yeah, but he makes it sound as if it is a cannot fail program. Obviously, it fails from time to time. Not because the program is flawed, neccessarily, but because of the participant's motivation.

Again, you are confusing the program with Plan A and Plan B. They are not the same thing. And of course a program can't work if you don't work it; it would be silly to believe otherwise. Even so, Dr Harley has posted that his program [program being the Basic Concepts] works in 90% of the cases.

This argument reminds of a lady once who was condemning the Atkins diet because she said "did you know if you quit the diet, you will gain all the weight back?????"



Apparently, this brightbulb knew of a diet that worked by osmosis when you AREN'T ON IT!

**edit**

I have found that Zelmo **edit**. MB, on the other hand, has a phenomenal track record.

My marriage is not recovered and my WH is still in his A...I do not blame MB at all....when I did the Plan A and the Plan B, I took the guaruntee as it would be the best chance for recovery of M, not a guaruntee of recover of M....I beleive that if I didnt find MB that i would be in the same position I am now in my M, but my personal recovery would have been much different and not for the better...Just my two cents.

I don't know much about art, but I know what I don't like

Rubbish you did - your wife never wanted to be in a recovery of a romantic relationship with you. Where does the label on the box say one person can make the recovery happen?


So you were one of the 30% or so of people for whom Plan A or B work - that's great. But you weren't in the 100% of people who rebuild their romantic love solely because your wife didn't want to and you continued to allow her to do nothing. Divorce is the recommended MB method for you. Plan B would be recommended for you but you didn't do either.


Penny's methods are not endorsed by MB as Mr W says.



Why do you continually mix and match the MB methods (Plan A and Plan B) for ending an affair (which has no guarantees) with Dr Harley's plan for building romantic love in a marriage as outlined by HNHN, LB and other books? Can you not see they are two totally different things? Can you not see if both a husband and wife follow that plan that is where there is a 100% guarantee? Can you not see that long term your unilateral efforts were bound to fail.

Aph - I greatly admire you considering the welfare of your children and all relevant factors and deciding not to divorce. But this is pure and simple YOUR CHOICE - NOT a failure of MB. You signed up for this. YOU are responsible - no one else - no program no one to blame but yourself.

It kind of cracks me up - I've got a warped and twisted sense of humor though so you'd have to understand where I'm coming from.

Years ago, the job I was working involved working on "public perception" with the company. So we'd scan blogs and chat boards all over the scale looking for the company name.

Negative blogs and posts were noted, the issues addressed within the company and customer service issues vastly improved.

but NOWHERE were negatives about the company posted on our own web site. We didn't entertain derogatory comments about our methods or our process on bandwidth for which we ourselves and our shareholders foot the bill.

Aph - it really says something about the Harleys that your negative comments have been permitted to breed on this thread.

I don't think they're trying to hide the fact that some marriages don't succeed, even when the methods are applied to exactness.

But here's the thing. You picked her first. You picked non-marriage material. Own it. Harley didn't pick her and force you to marry her.

Then she changed. Or did she? I don't know. I wasn't there.

But rather than get over your rage and move on in your life, you rail against the one methodology that gives you a completely clear conscience free and clear. You DID EVERYTHING to recover your marriage. That means SHE GETS TO OWN THE FAILURE. NOT YOU! That's worth GOLD in a lot of people's lives. You could choose to walk on with your head held high, work on improving your woman picker or happily alone. You choose.

But instead.... You're here. Railing against the Harleys.

Funny.

Pathetic.

Sad.

You know - just like those negative blogs I'd read day in and day out... I knew some of these people posting that crap. And guess what? They didn't use the program as directed. And they blamed my employer.

People who take ownership over their choices - all of them - including the ones they made before they knew there was a problem - get to live free and happy, no matter what happens.

Those who can't take ownership over their choices, because somehow that makes them "less"? Well - Aph - you're living it. At least in this virtual reality you are. I hope not IRL.

LG - Since you've never chosen to qualify how Steve contradicted himself, I'm guessing that you have to have someone to blame too. Perhaps he tweaked your conscience that maybe you should give her a chance? And you started to soften your heart one more time, when the selfish ***** returned to herself and showed her true unchanged nature again and validated why you shouldn't - and that's all her, but you blamed STEVE for HER failure??? Perhaps??

I don't know. But since you like to be vague, I'll stick to that conclusion and figure that Steve did nothing but maintain his commitment to saving marriages.

if you'd like to answer the question directly, perhaps Steve could use that feedback to improve his approach.

But vagueness does nothing but show you in a bad light.

period.

You come into his house and complain that it's not perfect.

Well cheating and healing from it is a dirty process. People get hurt. People don't recover. Just like any other serious disease. People die.

Thank Heaven the Harleys wade in where everyone else shouts "GIVE UP!" at the first try.

Peace Out!

KA,

As someone who spent 18 mos. coached by Steve H weekly, you gave a great assessment: he is tenacious for working to preserve marriages, always looking for any crumb with which to start a positive approach to a recovery plan.

The Harleys don't give up.

Great call.

BK:

I'm kinda sorry I posted my earlier rant.

I mean, it dragged Ampy out of his cave, didn't it?

Had he not dropped by, this thread may have died.

I believe that Ampy just gets to say to me, and other formerly wayward spouses here what he can NOT tell his own wayward wife.

I applaud him for staying for his children.

6yearsleft was in the same place as Ampy. But he made the CHOICE that 6 more years of THIS was worse than 6 more years of the unknown.

I still feel that LG's marriage had a shot. It is a very narrow path to walk to recovery of a marraige after infidelity. I describe the four-five days around my Dday as guided by God, because if a step had been put wrong, my M was toast.

I am higher on the "marriage at all costs" scale then others around here. Because this is MARRIAGBUILDERS, and because it worked for me and my BW.

LG had a shot. Ampy had a shot. I feel Ampy's wife is the worst of these two. The only thing Mrs Ampy got rid of was her OM. She got all the rest of the cake. Mrs LG is losing alot. So is LG.

LG: Live long and prosper. Your probably better off without her. Only time will tell. Recovery takes many forms. The fight you fought for your M and your children was a valliant one. Take pride in that. What is happening now is just the natural progression of the destruction of your marriage. She is driving that bulldozer. You tried to prevent it. Maybe you had a shot. But it was a very small window. On reflection, maybe I assumed too large a window for you. For that, I apologize.

LG

Some people do not read posts very carefully.

I did MB by the book.

I have posted before - MB methods killed the VLTA that would not die like a silver bullet. Surprised me it worked so well. That part of MB is very effective and should be advertised as so.

Plan A � Seems I had been doing a very good job meetings ENs all along. Shoot I lived for her. MB trained counselor, ENQ, wife�s IC (part of my Plan B letter requirements) and wife herself all said so. She did it because she could (just like Clinton said). It was not a case of missing main courses. It was an extra desert. MB does not even address this very well. If it isn�t ENs then it must be addictions and good luck.

Plan B � totally dark, including intermediaries. Lasted 6 months then she agreed to meet all Plan B letter requirements and in fact did so. She was not all that remorseful, pretty much like the adulterous wife in SAA. But wait � according to SAA remorse is not at all required, is it. Well, it�s required for me.

The point that seems to be missed is I am not going to get over the sex part of the VLTA. All the MB approach to recovery did is waste my time with assured promises of me getting over everything. But I am not getting over that. Makes it all my fault I guess.

So, I have my own plan now to leave when it is optimum for me to do so. MB failed in my case. And it isn�t, despite how much it scares you to hear it, it is not because I did not do it by the book. The other poster has it right when he noted that around here if the religion does not work for you it�s by definition your own fault.

And yes, I agree, I should no longer come here. Shoot, I even have a stalker on here.

But if anyone is keeping score � this one gets an F.

The painful Truth

PEOPLE OF THE LIE

"they are unwilling to suffer the discomfort of significant self-examination"


.... and thus, NO REMORSE. EVER!