Indeed. I apologise.

Back at you!

Sere,

Yes, I believe that while this list is GREAT at nailing down the to an affair, the steps are not sequentual for every affair.

My H's affair went like so....

1. Sharing a common interest....they worked in the same industry. He was a customer for his company

6. Flirting and teasing....OW has ("I" believe anyway) a tendency to "flirt" and over-step boundaries with her clients. My H was not the only one. An example, an email prior to A went when my H placed an order after a time of absence..."Hey, I thought we broke up...lol. Good to see you back. I will get right on your order...."

3. Meeting emotional needs

4. Looking forward to being together.... this was done in phone calls, IM's and emails. H's affair was a long distance one....and here's the KICKER...My H made the FIRST out of work move by calling her on a sunday afternoon. She REPEATEDLY stated "H would not like this" and "this is probably inappropriate"

7. Talking about personal matters...."How was your weekend?" turned into details about our families, each others "issues", problems....again with going back to the personal phone call

9. Special notes or gifts.....right after that fated phone call, she went out and purchased some Grey Goose Vodka and Red Bull for H for his birthday 2 days later. It was sent under the "guise" of from her company, but as far as I could find out, he was the ONLY one with his status that ever got a Bday present. It was more reserved for higher-up customers.....

2. and 5.....I lump these together, because I have NO IDEA of when he started any "comparission" but this would be a good place because I got him nothing for his birthday, because he told me NOT TO.....but would hear later on how nobody "cared" about him on his bday (hey, I did prepare his favorite dinner and didn't make the cupcakes because his mother was SUPPOSED to make a pie...)....and the dishonesty...well, it would have been lies of omission but once the personal phone calls started, then lying DEFINATELY started taking place.

8., 13, 14, and 15...all happened on the same trip. This was a long distance affair, so there wasn't an oppertunity for physical lines to be gradually crossed......


10 and 11....didn't take place until the affair was in full swing. It was long distance after all......the original trip was a LEGITIMATE trip which both I and her H knew about....all their meetings afterwards were lies, excuses and made up....

so yes, I believe that some of these would steps would vary depending on each individual circumstances, but they ALL involve the same steps.....

not2fun

Great post pep

TA i am the same way and have wondered the same things many times.

i have also wondered if my h does not understand that #1 is probably the most important one to avoid and just like most people here and IRL does not think it is a necessity, how do you get them to understand that it is without going to such drastic measures........

The problem for me anyway is that i would have scored exactly the same pre-A as i did post-A. To me most of the MB principles are natural and always have been. I am afraid though that to those who it is not natural they have a hard time believing that just talking to someone of the opposite sex is a bad thing.

The majority of people, incuding a lot here on MB, see nothing wrong with opposite sex friendships and facebook and the other internet socila sites (i am guilty of MB but nothing else). However we all know and see every day that it CAN lead elsewhere so why even be there to begin with....

I have never thought this about another man in my life. I do not know enough about another woman's husband to know if he "takes out the trash" better than mine anyway.

I really do not want my h to do anything the way anybody else does it, i want him to do it the way he does, that way i know it is for me.

Hey SC,

I was busy over the weekend, but did keep an eye on this thread because it is rather thought-provoking. I have to say, though, I struggle with the line of thinking -- specifically, about opposite sex talking is a "bad thing".

I know I've chimed in on this earlier, but when I think of something as being a "bad thing", I categorize it as something I take great measures to avoid. Driving 100 mph through a school zone. Taking a stroll through South-Central LA at 2am on a Sunday morning. Fertilizing the grass without liberally watering it afterwards. All "bad things". All things I really don't want to experience. All things that have a high likelihood of having a very negative outcome.

I guess I'm just hung up on the concept that talking with the opposite sex is a "bad thing". Look, I'm not saying I'm right or anyone else is wrong. The fact of the matter is I could be wrong. That's why I post, and that's why I listen to what others say, and really take it into consideration. I guess I just feel that if I start viewing opposite sex convos as bad things, when do I get to the point where I just start viewing the opposite sex IN TOTALITY as a bad thing. If talking to them is bad, why have anything to do with them?

I think that's a pretty sad way to go through life. I think crossing off half of the world's population as "bad" is an unhealthy way to go through life. Frankly, it's just not how I roll. BOTH sexes have tremendous value, and BOTH sexes have the ability to make my life a more fulfilling experience.

SC, I've already talked about mitigating risk, and the importance of taking precautions, so I think we agree in theory. I guess I just don't want to calibrate the safety bar as far out on the spectrum as some others. Maybe I should. I'm all ears, though.....

TB

Maybe a "bad thing" is a poor choice of words but me personally i just have always steered clear of men in general. Me and my H have lots of couple friends that we hang out with as a couple but i just do not really talk to men openly about anything and have not since the day my h and i started dating.

And it is fine, i do not feel like i am missing out on anything, my life is full, i do not wish i could go to happy hour or wherever because i have missed out on so much. It does not bother me in the least and i find it a natural thing to do.

So i guess we just look at it differently because you do feel like you would be giving something up, i do not feel that way.

I qualify for that too, my needs have went by the way side far more than his, but once again because i practice EPs it is very unlikely that i would even have the chance for someone else to meet those needs.

I am aware that being around the opposite sex is a danger zone so i just avoid it. soory guys but men hit on you whether you are married or not and women do the same thing so why put yourself in the situation where it could happen is all i am saying......

I am no expert, obviously, but there is a quiz here that is designed to check your spouse's potential for having an affair.

It may be valueless. On the other hand, it may provide further insight.

Hey SC,

We can look at situations differently because we are all different. Thus, our perspectives on opposite sex convos can be different. NOT necessarily right, and NOT necessarily wrong. Just different. It's what works for each of us.

Ultimately, this is a cost-benefit analysis for each of us. (Heck, everything about life is cost-benefit, isn't it?) SC, you see these convos as LOW cost, LOW benefit. You don't wish to "pay" much for them, because they have low value to you. Thus, you calibrate the bar pretty far out there. Not wrong. It works for you. And many others. I see more of a benefit to them, so I'm will to pay a bit more for them. Because I recognize a higher value TO ME, though, I am FULLY COGNIZANT of the need for greater precautions. For stronger boundaries (to avoid #2 - #15). And THAT is built into my cost.

If I'm way out in left field on this, I'm open to hearing about it. After all, I'm hear to learn. If I'm building this castle on pillars of sand, I am certainly open to interviewing new contractors.......

Thanks,
TB

All i can say is that my h never thought he would have an A, he hated them as his family was split up due to infidelity.

Yet he was (and still is) very talkative to members of the opposite sex. It has caused problems throughout our marriage as it makes me feel like he is disrespecting me even though he is technically doing nothing "wrong".

But because i have such a strong stance the other way it BOTHERS me greatly that he does this all the time. He is just far too friendly for my liking.

And since he is not necessarily "flirting" or doing anything innappropriate it is always just "my issue".

So it hurts our relationship in the end because he is like the majority of the world and sees nothing wrong with what he does.

Couldn't agree more. It's easy to detect that frisson of interest in a man (I must say I've never had it for a woman, but I don't rule out the possibility), and that automatically moves me into avoidance mode. I'm constantly amazed by friends who chat excitedly about cute builders and other 'random' men as if having coffee and an in-depth chat with them is a bit of meaningless frivol.

Still_Crazy, I regard Facebook and LinkedIn and FriendsReunited (I know it's called something else in the US) as Sites of the Devil, and steer well clear of them. H, OTOH, loves them all and participates with enthusiasm. Hmmm.

TA

And i also do not do anything social without my spouse, nor does he without me.

We have just found recreational things that we both enjoy and always do things together.

So neither of us are members of anything, so there is less likely of a chance of "connecting" with someone you share a passion with.....

But. Um. You are here. Without your Husband. We both share a passion for MB. Doesn't inconsistency like this spell the inevitable desctruction of the world, via a black hole vortex of impossibility?

The one aspect of the steps that is not covered here is the change of interests that waywards frequently take in order to create the �We have so much in common� line.

Wayzilla suddenly had all new interests and taste in music and it of course was all Gollums.

She became a big Kid Rock fan (one of his favorites). That was a laugh. She was listening to a lot of music that DD (then 18) had already moved on from.

I remember one afternoon at a sports bar restaurant not far from when the EA probably became a PA and she was staring up at a TV behind me in rapt interest and a faint smile. I turn around to see what she was watching and it was pro rodeo. I said, �I didn�t know you liked rodeo.�

She replied, �Oh, I�ve always liked rodeo.�

Of course you would have thought I would have known that after 25-1/2 years together.