Janda, if you continue to lie and withhold details about your affair from him, I would strongly suggest that he divorce you on grounds of cruelty.

Can you please send him here to us so we can help him?

Its like Post Traumatic Stress. He is re-living the pain over and over. Its like a Flashback and hes there again for the first time.
There are methods and help for him to get over this in this program. If you read a little bit in the forums you can find other Men and women who deal with those "mind-movies".

Not remembering like you do is not helping him. I can guarantee you that coming from the viewpoint of a former BS.

In his head you are just not letting him know the details and are still lieing to him.
Get into couselling and the books the Harleys offer and send him to the forums here.

Be honest, do you really want your marriage to get better? Some ppl come here to alieviate their conscience. If you really want to work on this you wont take that personal.

Thanks for coming here

Can anyone find Joseph's letter and post it here?

It might help Janda understand where her BS has been all these years.

Janda, what your H has been imagining for almost 20 years is probably much worse than what really happened, and going that long without knowing has just escalated what he is imagining.

Why are you telling white lies after this long? You need some help with this.

Being open and honest is major for any kind of recovery from adultery.

Best wishes, I hope you can see your way clear to recover WITH your H.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

This is a classic letter ... applicable when your adulterous spouse is not willing to disclose the details of the affair ... but wants to recover the marriage ...

Here ya go!

"To Whomever,

"I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

"You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have.

"Now let's enter my reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever "feel" complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important. Then later when I'm expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

"So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

"So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world."

(end of Joseph's Letter)

thanks mel!

hope this helps you understand janda, where your BH has been for a looooong time.

I also hope you are willing to do the hard work for recovery.

And by the way, I needed to know every last detail so there would be NO secrets between my FWH an myself. I wanted to make sure there was NOTHING that was secret between my H and ow.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Thanks for all of the advice. I am doing my best to not take things personally. I don't know if I have it in me to be so radically honest that I can relive the affair the way my H wants me to. The level of detail he wants is so explicit, and I know he won't take it well especially since I've kept it concealed after all these years. I think of all the ideas, I like the one where he writes the questions, and I can respond in writing. If I can get up the courage, that may be the route I take. Even so, I am afraid of some of the questions I know he will ask.

Janda, his RIGHT TO KNOW supercedes your fear or your discomfort. This is information about his life that has been wrongfully and cruelly withheld from him. Your fear does not negate your moral obligation to tell him the truth.

Your continued dishonesty, ie: trickle truth games, has only dragged out the recovery of your marriage. Your marriage will NEVER recover until you stop playing head games with your mouse. No honesty = no recovery. Period.

As long as you have secrets with your adultery partner that your husband is not privy to, he can NEVER trust you. And you should not be trusted until you tell him the truth.

100% agree.



You created this and only you can change it; otherwise this is going to continue (as you can see because you are here).


Reread this thread.

Gg

Okay, just told him if he could email me his questions that I would respond back with answers. I asked him to keep it clean, and he smiled back at me. I am hopeful and nervous to say the least.

Well, adultery is not "clean."

I hope you are committed to complete and radical honesty now for the sake of your husband. As you have discovered, most people can tell when a wayward is lying or skimming the truth.

I would get this all out in one huge document dump and get it over with. Just suck it up and spill your guts and be done with it. Otherwise, this sick little game will drag on for the next 3 years, if he lasts that long.

I had printed up a lot of posts from here and was putting together a whole package to give to my wife, bits of posts from here, and there and all over. It was disjointed though, no balance. I have explained to my wife what I need about her A's, but she talks pretty much as you do 'Janda'. Your husband may be wanting a bit more info than I require, but that is a personal choice of his.

Now I can toss all of the other stuff I found on here away and have her read this thread. 'Janda', you and your BH are EXACTLY where my wife and I are. Her A's were many years ago too, (about 21 yrs ago), although I only found about them 4 1/2 months ago...your husband has known about yours for 12 years, so that's where we differ, but other than that, your husband seems to feel as I do. And you seem to feel as my wife does.

All I can offer is I understand how your husband feels and I keep trying to explain to my wife why we need to sit down and get to business...NOW, so we are not doing this in 12 years, like you guys, or 'The Road'.

Just answer him, give him all he wants, it will hurt him, a lot. It could hurt him for a week, or a month, who knows, but at least it will all be in the open, then you guys can move forward. He will process the hurt and pain as best he can, then he will heal in due time. If you keep deflecting, you guys will be as, 'The Road' said, 29 years later, with it still screwing with his mind, and your marriage still not healthy.

Jada,

Right now I'm trying to contact OM and other witnesses, 20+ years ago my wife had an EA, I hope that is what it was, but I wasn't there. Neither was your H. My wife like you has expressed a desire to forget. The problem is I can't understand the current state of my marriage unless I know what happened then.

Specifically, and my wife has confirmed this, our sex life never came back to what it was before her EA. Small details bother me, for example about that time she first got hemroids,
perhaps it means nothing, but I really don't know. A stray comment about penis size 12 years ago.

My Wife however was there and knows what happened, but has not told me everything since details keep slipping out, like that it was going on for quite awhile before D-day, that one came out not too long ago.

Even if you have suppressed those memories they continue to have an effect on your marriage.

If I am able to prove PA, I'll be honest, I will need to know.

Q How many times did she orgasm, how many times per act, during what activities. ORGASM will be huge for me, and could spell the end of my marriage, even though we are now in a good
place and my wife is happy.

Q Did she swallow, and how much did he produce.

Q How long/wide circumsized etc.

Q Did she allow him to finish inside her.

Q Did she allow him to have anal.

Q Who else knew.

At times I really feel most of my wifes attraction for me was destroyed by the EA, and she stayed with me for reasons of security, finances, love and comfort.

God Bless
NJ

Hi and welcome Janda,

Don't take things too personally. Sometimes the advice and perspectives you read here will seem harsh or unreasonable, but they come from a place of wanting to jolt you into reality.

Let me assure you, your secrecy is far worse than the consequences of being honest. The great thing about honesty is that it enables the real healing and a better relationship. I would guess that you have issues relating to your lack of disclosure, and that after disclosure, as hard as it might be, you will eventually be in a much better place yourself, not to mention your partner.

I would also warn against prolonging the process by not having a honest conversation. It is kind of like removing a band-aid, better just to rip it off quickly as opposed to the slow painful peel.

Good luck. You can do it.

Janda,

Which is worse, the questions and the answers, or the betrayal of your marriage vows to the one you promised to honor, love and protect?

Janda,

I am in a similiar situation as your BH. My FWW's A ended 11 years ago and only revealed it to me Jan 09.

It is true that by asking questions that your H will finally have the truth. He will get answers that will reveal things that will in turn generate more questions. Round and round you go. It is the same merry-go-round that FWW and I are on.

What is the healthiest in my opinion, is not making him ask the questions. Just give him as many details as you remember. It will go a long way in rebuilding trust and honesty if you offer the truth, as opposed to offering only the truth as it relates to his questions.

Janda,

Thank you for posting it helps to see things through someone in my wifes situation. You wrote....

the level of detail he wants is so explicit, and I know he won't take it well especially since I've kept it concealed after all these years.

He already has not taken it well for 12 years!

And if he is like me, he has kept his pain concealed for years, as men we have no one to talk to about our wives straying, the stigma we feel is tremendous, an admission of failure as fathers, husbands, lovers and human beings. No outlet at all.

I think most women who have their husbands stray on them at least have some friends who have experienced it too.

He imagines that you and OM�s had, threesomes, went to sex clubs, used toys, did everything he never did with other women in his loyalty to you and his desire to remain faithful to his children.

One of my great fears, btw, is that my wife had the best sex of her life with OM, which is why she has never given me the complete story.

Even so, I am afraid of some of the questions I know he will ask.

The ones he asks himself once a day, but that you have known for years?

Are you reluctant to speak the truth because you have hid other OMs from him, perhaps When you were dating or engaged?

God Bless
NJ

Janda,

Ok, I think you are completely missing the point here.

1. Your H probably has movies playing in his mind that are far far worse than any details you can give him. They are graphic, they dirty, and they are painful. His imagination is very likely far more explicit that your affair was. He has lived with this for 12 years now? And you refuse to address his pain. If you do, the movies will change and the pain will be less.

2. It is clear that you don't trust your H's willingness to remain with you after two affairs. I suspect you know you would never be that strong, that good of heart, and certainly that forgiving, but he apparently has been. Don't you think he knows what gives? He knows you don't trust him which is ironic given what you have done. He needs validation that you actually love him enough to address his pain #1 and trust him enough to share your life with him.

3. What could you tell him that he has not imagined? What could you tell him that be worse than finding out that your W has chosen 2 men to cheat on him with and clearly found both better than him? What could be worse than knowing the women he loves lied and is still lying by omission? What could be more painful than to realize that your W was soooo attracted to OM that she is still protecting OM and herself over her own H?

4. He knows it will be hard for you to disclose the details, but he knows you had no trouble living them. He knows that this is a test and the longer you wait the more explicit the requests will be because the more his own imagination will play into this.

Janda, you think what he asked is embarassing. What he thinks is what you are not telling him is killing him and his love for you.

You need to stop protecting yourself and start protecting your H.

God Bless,

JL

janda

How are things going?

Offer to start by writing BH a time. When you are getting overwhelmed remember this is not a marathon.

That is an interesting take on it, the 'merry-go-round', questions could lead to other questions, (very likely will). Your solution is a good one, but it gets to what I was going to ask...honesty and believing.

My FWW has given me some details, but I am not sure if I believe her and that is the problem I have. If we sitdown for several Saturdays, or do email, or hand written Q&A's, will I believe her answers..? For instance she has said I am 'bigger' than the guys she was with, but I don't know if she is telling the truth...sucks man.

'JL', your posts strike right at the heart, even if your post is directed towards someone else, I feel it myself.

As someone said before, you should change your name because you're not 'Just learning' in your advise and comments.