Another vote on tossing the belt.

If FWH wants to make an issue out of an old belt, fer chrissake, then there are bigger problems facing recovery than originally thought.

I honestly don't think he'll make an issue out of tossing the belt. But he doesn't respond well to my bringing up the EA at this point. I get the "am I going to have to pay for this the rest of my life" argument. To be fair, I tend only to bring this up when we're fighting so his response comes also out of anger.

However, since his conversations with Steve, things have changed. I think the things Steve said to him resonated big time and he was able to see the connection between his behavior and my feelings. In particular, he mentioned his angry outbursts and selfish demands (for H, that was the form of "if you're not going to agree with what I'm saying, I'll have to hold it inside and just suffer from resentment"--essentially putting his bad feelings on MY shoulders. Steve set him straight on that one).

So I'm probably projecting more problems that ultimately might be there but am hesitant to bring it up because I'm still gunshy about O&H triggering an angry outburst on his part. There hasn't been enough time for either of us to exhibit changed behavior patterns to inspire trust on the other side...even though we are both trying.

That's why I wanted to talk to Steve about it when we speak later this week.

So why waste energy on the belt when there are issue that are so much larger?

It seems to me much ado about nothing, relative to everything else going on.

Sure, it MAY be a trigger. However, I still think inanimate object triggers are something the person being triggered is responsible for resolving in their thinking.

Call him on his behaviors, but I suggest she control her own thought processes with respect to objects she finds trigger her.

And the same can be said to her. There are much bigger things for her to worry about instead of the belt.

I'm not a fan of the belt. Nor am I a fan of keeping it.

But I can tell you I'm not a fan of her making a big deal over the belt in light of the much more serious issues in the marriage.

The H who can make choices about his behavior is much more crucial than what belt he happens to wear or where he bought it.

She can't control the thought processes that HE introduced to her.

Belt needs to go.

Hey, OH. I've read your posts for months. Why do you continue to ignore the BIG/REAL issues in your marriage?

I tried that too. And I understand being stubborn, I get denial, and I can even see wanting to just make it work anyway...but, the fact is, it doesn't work that way. Why do you think, despite somebody pointing this out to you each day (it seems), that you can recover your marriage anyway? Your WH, he's not into it. Do you see that?? Do you tell yourself this is what you deserve?

OH what does he need the belt for any ways? He wont loose his pants laying around the house not working and getting drunk. the belt isnt going to keep him from falling down and breaking things in your home. Use the old belt to tie his bags toether and the new one to beat his aas out the the door(DONT do that just say get him out) then he wont abuse your children. I wish all I had to worry about was a belt !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, I don't buy this sort of blame shift.

What you are suggesting here is no different than a wayward spouse saying they couldn't control their decisions because of the temptation presented by another.

If you reject that line of thinking from a wayward spouse, then why would you then suggest someone use the same sort of blame shifting to avoid owning their own lack of self control?

We control what we think and dwell upon, period.

Everyone arguing for her not being able to control her thoughts is arguing for the wayward spouse not being able to control their thoughts and decisions to cheat.

Since I doubt you agree with that, why suggest the same blame shift here.

OH can control what she thinks about, regardless what her H does or doesn't do.

I think I sorta-kinda mostly agree with E_E () - though not really for the same reasons he gives...

See, things only having meaning because WE assign them meaning...I'll even go out on a limb here and say that women are more likely to do this than men when it comes to sentimental things - though personally I will say the older I've gotten the less likely I am to do that...But remember being in jr. high and high school? If your boyfriend gave you a stuffed animal - oh my goodness...the thing may as well have been him...lol...

OH, I don't think your husband has any meaning assigned to that belt at all...the evidence comes in the fact that he told you when and where he purchased it...If it had been "THE secret belt" that held some meaning to him, he would not have done that...

OKAY though, all that being said...

Your feelings aren't right or wrong - they simply ARE...I understand E_E's point that you do have a measure of control over some things, but I'm not totally onboard with controlling every feeling one has...You may have a feeling and be able to tell yourself it is an inappropriate feeling and choose to focus elsewhere, but the first feeling you had did exist - you still felt it...

I think the example of waywards not being able to control their feelings is actually a poor one and I'll tell you why...I do not think they can...meaning once you allow someone to meet your emotional needs you WILL develop in love feelings for that person...What IS under the wayward's control is ACTING on feelings - they also have control over allowing someone other than their spouse to meet their emotional needs in the first place...but the feelings themselves just ARE...

N.E.WAY...

OH, the biggest issue I see is that you and your husband don't appear to have an intimate enough relationship to be open and honest with the other - and I'm sorry, because that sucks rocks for you [and him, though he doesn't get that yet]!

You see if something like you've described were to happen in Mr. W's and my relationship, I'd not have to come here and ask what to do, nor would he...There would be no hesitation in either of us sharing our feelings RESPECTFULLY with the other, because we are that sure that the other person would be interested enough in our feelings to not only listen, but do everything in their power to make things okay...Our relationship is one of EXTRAORDINARY CARE...If anything at all triggered Mr. W, I would go to the ends of the earth to get rid of that trigger...Mr. W's feelings are top priority to me, because it is my job to ensure that he remains in love with me...I am never to be the source of his unhappiness...He'd have no reason to fear my reaction to his feelings because he knows that I will protect him...

Anyway OH - my wish for you is that you would have a happily recovered MB marriage...unfortunately that takes two willing partners...(((((OH)))))...IMO, the belt is the least of your worries...

Mrs. W

I think I was careful to speak about her thoughts, not her feelings.

I.E. she can control what she thinks and dwells upon. That's what she thinks about and remains focused upon.

I suppose that impacts feelings. I.E. we can shape our feelings by our thoughts. So if you don't dwell on the belt, you won't experiencing the feelings associated with those thoughts.

After all, I don't think about my XW, so I don't keep living any feelings associated with her.

When my every thought was about her, about the affair, etc, that drove my feelings.

Now I think about other things. Things that are more important to me. So the thoughts about her and the associated feelings are no longer there.

I believe, in large part, your feelings follow your thoughts. So if you think about the belt as something associated with the EA, then that will drive your feelings.

However, if the belt is just something he has, then that will likely drive a very different set of feelings.

Feelings just are, with that I agree. However, feeling CAN be changed by thoughts.

If you dwell on the bad traits of someone, that will drive your feelings. Likewise, if you dwell on the good, that will drive a different set of feelings.

It goes back to the affair/wayward example. The wayward dwells ONLY on the good of their affair partner. So this unbalanced thinking drives the emotional train.

Likewise, they tend to only dwell on the bad aspects of their spouse at the same time, an example of equally unbalanced thinking.

So I tend to believe that our thinking, or the lack of critical thought can drive the emotional train.

So I go back to my original question, does focusing on the belt make the marriage better or worse?

Use the belt to belt him right out of the house. Then the kids can slowly recover from his abusive nature. As it is now, your kids will need therapy for your husband yelling at them and treating them badly thier whole lives.

Make him get a job. Make him quit drinking. Make him quit abusing you and the kids.

Yep, I thought we were on the same page, E_E!

The belt is the least of the problems in OH's marriage... I think she is focusing on little things to avoid looking at the big picture...[Sorry to talk about you in the third person, OH]

Mrs. W

Finally getting this through my thick head really helped me leaps and bounds with relating to H on a day-to-day basis. Everytime I find myself being annoyed by something, I try to think of two good things about him. If I can associate that with the annoying thing, so much the better. For instance, let's say instead of putting his car in the garage next to mine, he pulled up in the driveway behind me. I'm annoyed because I can't pull my car out without having to ask him to move his, or move it myself. But, the reason the car is in the driveway is that he took daughter one place, picked up son and brought home takeout for dinner. So focusing on that alleviates the mild annoyance of him parking behind me.

That said, I have to admit that while Mrs. W is right on about my marriage lacking that degree of intimacy right now (it is getting better but not there yet....), the belt issue has gone away in my mind. I didn't mention it; perhaps I should have. But a few days later, when I steeled up my courage to bring up the topic, I did an emotional check-in and realized I didn't really care anymore. So I didn't bring it up.

I fight the same battle. Only about socks left strewn about the house, or cups, glasses.

I can focus on how annoying it is, or I can LOVE my children enough to provide them teachable moments where they learn to pick up after themselves.

Perhaps someday they will learn that if they do it when they are done, their game or show or whatever they are doing is not interrupted. But I don't expect them to learn it all at once