The extremely long-winded version

So I've been luring on these forums for a few weeks now after being turned on to it by a fellow BS. I've been able to learn a lot from others' situations, and as such, held out on posting my own situation. BUT I'm now at a breaking point (again) and need specific input from the forum.

I'm a new BS. My wife had some unmet EN and she tried over the last couple of months to communicate them to me. Perhaps because our communication during that time was not the best, and often ended in flared tempers and heated arguments, I wasn't too reactive to her demands. I also didn't fully understand just how important these needs were to her nor did I understand how hurt or upset she was over it.

It all came to a head on December 11th when I decided I was done with the marriage because I had determined in talking to and reading her that I had already lost her emotionally and there was no hope. Why would I try in what was a hopeless situation I reasoned. So we began making plans the next day to separate. We looked over finances, discussed custody of the boys, my moving out, etc. Later that night, however, she asked me how can I give up on the marriage without a fight so easily. That statement, along with some deep thought led me to the decision that I would indeed fight for my marriage even though our situation seemed hopeless. I would fight for my marriage by working on meeting the her unmet EN

The next day it seemed as though she was as distant as ever. I made the comment that it appeared as though we were separated, but living together, which is something she suggested when seeing that my moving out would make money very tight. It didn't seem like she was trying at all. It was then that I got the dreaded, "I love you but I'm not in love with you." That cut me like a knife, but I had already decided that I would love through this.

Over the week or so, I was turned on to the movie "Fireproof" and the accompanying book, "The Love Dare." Awesome movie. I began "The Love Dare" and began to learn how different real love is from what I (or even my wife) had shown over the years. It allowed to love my wife despite the total lack of appreciation and absence of love returned. With it though came the greatest emotional roller coaster of my life, but I was able to stay in the fight for my marriage through inspirational music and a small circle of awesome advisors.

In describing my situation to one of my friends/advisors, he told me that my wife is following the script of a WS.

I love you, but I'm not in love with you.
I need to find out who I am.
I don't know if I want to married anymore
Etc., etc.,

I actually got upset with him for putting the thought into my mind. My wife has flaws, but dishonesty has never been one of them. I asked that while I would certainly be deeply hurt by an affair, I wasn't sure how that would change my gameplan of trying to restore my marriage. I still have to work on becoming the husband I should have been all along. He following with a brief summation of the carrot and the stick and explained that I was using all carrot, no stick, and that I would likely fail if indeed there is an OM. He suggested snooping: keylogging, digital recorder in her truck, phone records, etc. I milled over it, but thought it unnecessary. I later decided that what could it hurt. If there was no affair, then snooping would simply prove that out.

I first looked at the phone records and WHAM! Plain as day. The volume of calls to one or two particular numbers was quite conspicuous. 3000 minutes of conversation in a six-week span. In looking up the two phone numbers, I found that it was an old friend of hers from high school. An old boyfriend from high school. I knew that they occasionally spoke with other and I had no problem with that, but beginning in late November, they began speaking everyday, several times a day, averaging 50 minutes or so a day. I was immediately enraged and knew that I need to place the digital recorder in her truck. I did so that day. When I listened to the recording later that night, I discovered that they met that day for about 15-20 minutes after she got off from work. She told me and her mother that her lateness was due to traffic. In her conversation with the OM, she and he laughingly speak of their "affair", what each of them likes and dislikes sexually, his pending marriage (Jan. 23rd), and plenty of benign banter. When they met that day, it was at their "spot" as my WW described on the recording. They spent 15 minutes in OM's car (doing who knows what) and then OM walked WW back to the truck where there were several kisses before the goodbye.

Anyway, by the time I listen to the recording, I am somewhat familiar with how to handle exposing the affair, but being high on anger I screwed the pooch on how I handled it. It was about midnight when I finished listening to the recording. Using a calm voice, but still highly upset, I awoke my wife and informed her that I knew about the affair. As expected, she denied, denied, denied. In the face of the evidence, she denied. I told her of the phone records, and she admitted talking to him a lot, but no more. I told her about the recording (bad move, I know) and the conversations I heard. She said regarding the sex talk, that she and OM are really good friends and could talk about anything. She saw nothing wrong with that. Regarding her referring to it as an "affair", she said they were just joking. Well this crap went on and on. Neither of us got any sleep that night. I made sure of it. I told her that she had to end all contact with OM. Her response was that he is a really good friend, always has been, and always will be, no matter what becomes of our M. Again, that cut me deeply.

The next day, I set out to expose. First her mother, then the babysitter, then a really good friend of hers, then I stopped (bad move, I know). I felt remorse because of the pain exposing the affair was causing her, so I couldn't bear to keep hurting her. Oddly enough, that night, we talked about all that had happened and she informed me that she felt closer to me than she ever had and we hugged. More than ever, her sincere hugs simply melt me, and it did so this time.

That weekend, WW and I went out to a local park and took a long, long walk. She said she enjoyed it and we had decent conversation. Unfortunate there parts of the conversation where she talked about the OM. Spoke of his situation with his fiance. Mentioned that he would never be able to spend this amount of time with her because he is always so busy (he an successful and ambitious entrepreneur). She actually said I should thank the OM because he is the one that convinced my WW to go to a MC. I squelched my true thoughts about that statement.

Anyway since before that time, I've been Plan A'ing while constantly struggling with the emotional roller coaster caused by not receiving any love. Last Monday night (1/11), I was actually taking our older DS to B-Ball practice and encountered her on the side of the road in the subdivision standing outside of her truck talking on the phone. As I stopped to see if everything was okay, she told me that she was venting to a female friend, a friend I know. I later pulled the phone records and discovered that she was again speaking to the OM. I confronted her the next day and told her that I was moving out because I could no longer tolerate the lying. She lied to keep from hurting me she said. She knew what I might think if I found her talking to the OM on the side of the road. We talked and she again unleashed the sincere Super hug on me again; I melted again; I didn't move out again.

Next up: Roller skating birth party for WW's cousin this past Saturday night. WW didn't want me to go with her to the party because she felt awkward about being around me. Just the same, she needed me to go since she had no one else to go with. Not the warm, fuzzy invite I would like, but I'll take it. Between the invite and the party though, the WW made a few comments that drove me over the edge, and for the first time that I can recall, I didn't want to see or be around her. Just the same, we went to the party. En route to the party, I told her that I was going to pull back: stop doing loving acts for her and stop calling her to see how she's doing. In addition, I would be moving upstairs. At the party, she didn't like that I was distant and she said as much. The problem is that I felt my heart turning away from her and it scared the mess out of me. So the night continues on, and I tried not to be as distant. I still slept upstairs that night. The next day, you guessed it. We talked; she super hugged; I melted; I moved back downstairs into our bedroom.

Almost done.

By this point, she has promised to "minimize" contact with the OM, but has said she would still text him occasionally to see how he's doing, but that she told him not to call her. She told me that she would tell me if she had any communication with, but do not ask her about it.

I called it an EA. She doesn't believe in EA's only PA's.To her, it was not an affair because there has been no sex, and there will be no sex because, as she says, she's not going to let it go that far and because she's not going to hell. It is a relationship that perhaps went to far, but she feels no remorse, because she had needs that weren't being met and OM was meeting them.

So yesterday evening, WW was a little later than expected leaving work and with a plausible explanation, but my mind wouldn't allow me to trust plausible explanations anymore. So I began plotting ways to get access to OM's cell records (in case he bought her a pre-paid cell or is now calling her office phone instead of her cell); I began pricing GPS units to place in her truck. Then I gathered myself briefly with the thought that I cannot live my life like this. I cannot prevent the affair, meetups, phone calls. So while I'm not firm on this yet, I've decided that I will move out without notice. Why no notice? Fear of the superhug. It is only the possibility of my leaving that causes my WW to show signs of trying to reconcile the marriage. It's the only time I get a real hug. Any other time, it's the one-armed, lean in "Christian" hug. No meaning whatsoever. I believe she simply wants me around for her convenience. I do more than a fair share of cooking, cleaning, ironing, parenting. Being without me in that capacity would be a sharp hit to her. I want her to want me around for more than just her convenience.

She never speaks of reconciliation. She only speaks of what would happen when we split. "It would be hard for me, but I would be okay," she says. Her close, divorced female friend provides her a glimpse into what my WW life would be life without me, and all my WW can see is the freedom of not having to work on a struggling marriage. The freedom of being without the boys every other weekend. The beauty of having a relationship where she can experience the new fuzzy in-love feeling again.

Me? I want my marriage, I love my wife, I want my family to be kept in tact. I do wonder whether or not it's still possible. We are seeing a MC, but while we both like the MC, we've only been to two sessions and don't really expect results this soon.

I'm tired of hurting as much and as often as I do. Why would I not leave?



BS (Me): 36
WS: 37
OM: 38
Married: 05/28/93
D-Day: 1/6/10
DS: 7
DS: 2

You don't leave because that would be considered abandonment and your wife could make you pay through the nose for child support/etc?

I suggest you re-phrase the question, "Why would you let her stay?"

Welcome to MB. Please familiarize yourself even more with Plan A and get the book "Surviving An Affair". Expose the A to the OM's fiance immediately and without warning to your WW. You should also expose to your children (age appropriately)

Do NOT move out of your house. If she wants to continue her affair SHE needs to move out and not have you supporting her and paying for her affair.

You do not leave because your kids need you there. You love them and will give them the best dad in the world.

You plan A like crazy (including dealing with the anger and despair exposure causes your wife).

You do the best plan A you can and you decide when you need to go to plan B and then....the wife will need to leave and the children will stay with you at the home. If you get to that point, you tell her she must go but you and the children are staying together because it is the right thing to do. (Surviving An Affair describes a wayward wife, Susan, who got her own apartment and later asked her betrayed spouse to let her move back in the house with the kids.....read it many times to see how that unfolded).

You will hopefully not have to go to that but it is a definite possibility.

I'll pick up SAA today.

AFAIK, the affair has ended. Unfortunately, since her breach of trust, I can't trust that the affair didn't just go underground.

She won't agree to a complete NC.

As for parenting, considering my emotional roller coaster, at times I think that right now I may be a better dad out of the house than in it. I love my wife more now than ever. My boys are a deep concern for me as well. Staying and fighting for my marriage is the noble and, I believe, right thing to do, but my boys will not likely perceive it that way until they are much older. By that point, the damage to them may be done. They have a horrible model of a marriage. They may likely instead see a seemingly bi-polar dad who does for his boys and his wife, but does not receive any love and affection from his wife. What am I modeling to my boys?

Putting her out? How exactly would I accomplish that? She has expressed no illusions of leaving to join the OM to form their own life together. She has described her R with OM as a long-lasting close friendship that just went too far, but stopped at kissing (it took her 2 wks to admit to the kissing that I had on tape). She has described him as not being relationship material as he is too busy with his business interests. He just met an unmet EN, she says.

She doesn't know if she wants to be married any more, and has said that if we divorce, she's not going to go jumping into another R. She may, in fact, never get married again, she says.

I am continuing to Plan A. I just hate the emotional roller coaster. I hate dealing with new insecurities created by a WW who fails to see that it was not JUST a relationship that went too far. It was a friggin' affair, and it has shattered me.

Do not leave your home. By leaving you are

1. Leaving the door wide open for OM. Don't believe her story that it is over until you have proof.

2. You are modeling for your boys that men leave their families. what kind of example is that? How about love and committment even during the rough times of marriage?

3. STOP listening to her wayward babble. WW's are the worst at times because of the emotional attachment to the OM.

5. Do not again give away your sources of knowledge.

6. Now please man up and fight for your family!

Have you expose to OM's GF and the rest of the family? Do not leave your house and your children Cubbie. You do not want POSOM around your children and will give your WW ammo to use against you...and she will use it. Your WW's behavior is typical junk. If you want to save your marriage, don't throw in the towel just yet.

woth repeating again and again

Umm, yeah, my wife refused to believe for a very long time that what she had was an affair or infidelity. She stepped off the affair-bus at Step Thirteen of fifteen:

http://www.gillistriplett.com/rel101/articles/adultery.html

Anything past Step 4, if you're married, you're having an affair. Call it an "emotional affair" or an "affair of the heart" if you like... but it's an affair nonetheless and has similar steps toward recovery because you're already being dishonest with your spouse.

She lied to you about how much they were talking.
She's lying about the extent of their sex talk.
It's an affair.

Now get down to the hard work of your Plan A, the goal of which is to persuade her to leave her lover forever. When you expose, the following language is helpful:

"Hi, friend. I'm sad to say that WW is having an affair with OM. It has not yet become sexual, but I could really use your advice on how to deal with this."

Exposure is key & critical. Keep it up, expose like heck if she's taken it underground.

Cubbie --

You said this OM was getting married on 1/23.

Have you stopped his fiance from making the biggest mistake of her life????

How can you be that cruel to another human being?

Ditto, she should be informed. Even if it means showing up on the day of the M, standing up in church and answering that the OM is having an A with your WW when the priest asks if there's any reason why OM and OMGF should not be joined in M.

Because, until your WW agrees and sticks to NC with the OM, the A is STILL GOING ON.

And Cubbie you need to clear away your fog.

1. There is NO way she is being honest with you about the depth of her involvement with OM.
2. I guarantee that she has been far more physical with OM than you will ever know.
3. She will only admit to what you can prove.
4. By revealing your methods, she will go deeper underground.

1) DO NOT LEAVE. STAY IN THE MARITAL HOME AND IN YOUR BEDROOM. DO NOT ABANDON YOUR CHILDREN!

2) If you want this to end, all you have to do is expose your intel to OM's fiance. I'm sure she will squash this, and hopefully, she doesn't make the mistake of marrying the guy. He'll be too busy trying to win her back to have anymore time w/ your W.

3) Expose to OM's family and siblings. If you can, do a nuclear exposure and expose to all of OM's facebook friends.

4) Cut off access to OM. Track her car via GPS and block OM's number or cut off your cell phone if you have to.

5) Start meeting your WW's ENs.

If you do want out of the marriage, stay in the marital home and file for D and primary custody. Settle for nothing less than 50%.

Cubbie,

What's going on sucks. I've been there.
WWs, according to Dr. Harley, are VASTLY more difficult to R than WHs.
You need to acknowledge a few things, that are most certainly true. HOW DO I KNOW THIS? Because EVERY WW follows one of two scripts. Sad to say, yours is following the more devious one (so was mine, now my XW).

1. The affair has been completely physical, meaning that they most assuredly have had sex at this point. She is lying to you about that. She had no trouble lying to you about everything else, and you need to understand that everything you knew about your wife is no longer accurate. It's like an alien has replaced her and is doing a rather poor job impersonating the person you fell in love with.

2. The affair is still going on. You're right about that. It's simply gone further underground.

3. Exposure without warning is key. She will try to discredit you, spin your story, etc, so make sure to get out ahead of it. This includes informing OM's fiancee. If you have the cajones to go to the wedding and stand up during the ceremony to object, you would be my personal hero! But, barring excessive theatrics, you at least owe her a phone call and the offer of conclusive proof if she wants it.

4. Don't blame yourself. Almost every BH feels at some point like less of a man, insufficient, or that it's his fault in some way. Well, you know you weren't perfect. Nobody is. But SHE made the choice to inflict the deepest emotional pain on a spouse that one can inflict.

5. Know that she has no respect for you. That one's hard to swallow. Read it again. WWs have ZERO respect for their husbands - otherwise they wouldn't be able to become the "monsters" that they do. They justify everything to themselves. But she knows 100% that she can play you like a violin, and she will try (Exhibit A: The "Super-Hug" - don't think she doesn't know EXACTLY what to do to achieve the desired outcome).

What EVERY BH needs to do immediately (and almost no one ACTUALLY does, myself included) is man up and adopt a ZERO tolerance policy. Do you think Tiger Wood's wife would be okay with "occasional texting" to his mistresses? Don't be ridiculous. This is a weird gender difference - remember that whatever the case in the past, she has forfeited her right to control, to stay in the house, etc., and you need to make her understand you mean business.

To echo EVERYONE ELSE - don't leave your house. The courts are screwed up. I'm sure other, more experienced vets can tell you all about how LEAVING can really screw a man over in court in vitriolic alimony/custody battles.

Sorry if this comes off harsh - I've been in your shoes my friend. I wish you the best.

ConfuzedHusband