I've been following this thread and it has really touched me. I know how it feels to wonder how you're still there tolerating the situation. That goes to say that you're stronger that what you previously thought. I know it's really hard to watch your WW cry for OM who is nothing but a bum. But think that she's really grieving the potential loss of her addiction not necessarily OM who is worthless.

I second what others have said about coaching with the Harleys. It seems like this may be a good time to do that. They can help you and your WW to get through these terrible situation. Their guidance has been invaluable in my case. I strongly suggest you make an appointment ASAP.

--ElCamino72

Her bosses husband is a minister and councellor and offered to help, but she said she does not want councelling right now. This is coming from someone who's a Phsycology major. Your comment aboutthe addition, I don't think so. She is grieving his loss (wink) and not the addiction. I thought she may have hit rock bottom when she was calling at 4am the other day asking me to come get her, but yesterday made me sick. She started rationalizeing what happened saying "I know your biased, but I don't want you to think that he is like that. It was my fault and he's not the monster you think". She's right, I'm not unbiased and I could give a s..t less who or what he is. I just want him gone and told him so. I guess rock bottom hasen't happened yet. We were sitting here last night and she asked me what has changed about her over the past three years. I said "do you want my honest opinion" she said "yes, be honest". So I told her that she has become selfish and narcasistic. She has sacraficed the well being of her kids and I for her own selfish needs. I told her she had no conection with her children and they were growing up without her. I thought she would either break down and say your right, or get angry and say it's my fault or some other phsyco babble. Instead, she just sat there and went into thought..... Never said a word back. I do-not have the will of some of the other people on this site. It's been a month and for me, if she sees him again, she's out. She has to travel up to Oaklahoma City next week, it's about a 3 hour drive, one she has made before. So we'll see. I don't think she has the will to break it off as evidenced by her allowing him to speak with her at the airport. I do think (know) she is very nervous about my going back to work. She know's once that happens there is no longer a financial connection and I will then have all the cards. Until then, I think she'll vacilate (or try) between us. Right now neither one of us is sure it's worth trying, but ny view is if I walk away, I want to be able to say I gave it my all. Her view is that for years I was not there for her emotionally and my family never accepted her and I made her feel unworthy. Couple things that may clarify and help in peoples assesment: We had children before we married. I had been married once before and did not want to again.....never lied about that. I was happy being with her, but I hedged on getting married. This has always been a major issue because she felt unworthy. The other is she is 34 and I am 46. I think the age difference is an issue. I met her when she was 23 and I was 35, so there is that issue. I had kind of did it done it and bought the T-shirt and she was still young and had not experienced a lot of the things I had. I think in her mind I went from being a Farrari to a Camry and she's probably right. Now there is someone who is new who gives her the attention and excitment she feels are missing at home. Funny (ha, ha) to think he's the same age I was when we met. I think these are important issues which will help all in there opinions.

She's too "fresh" to bring down here. She has to show she can keep from contacting OM first. Maybe after a month of NC.

Did her eyes bulge?

My first XWW used to do this all the time, ask for hugs while she was cheating. I was stupid enough to do it.
I beleive it made her lose even more respect for me and I am mortified I did it.

Yes, I am amazed, as well , that you can put up with this. It must suck.

Pretty much. Tonight got crazy. We were sitting here and she was acting all sad after a pretty good day and she looks at me and says "I'm mad at you. I said for what. She says "you ruined eveything. I loved him and you took away that choice. I said are you expecting an apology? She said no, but I feel like a prisioner in my own home. Is that what you wanted? I said no, I wanted to save my marriage. Then she started getting mad so I got up and told her I'd be back. 2 minutes later my phone rings, come home and talk about this. I said, we are going to a bad spot and I don't want to fight. She (still mad) said what did you expect? That I would come home and say hey, everything is fine, sleep with you and it's all good. I told her I have been here, I have listened to you and supported you. I have been here, barely functioning, caring for the kids while your out having a good time. I said, you call me I'm there. You call me and ask me to take a flight to pick you up and then find out you flew home with him. I have never waivered on what I want. I have laid it out for you what I'm willing to do to fix this. But, if you want to be with him, I can't stop you. However, if you do, I am done with you. Don't call me when your in trouble because I wont be there. Don't ask me for financial help, because I wont be there. I will wash me hands of you. She then said "well, you got what you wanted, I'm here and I don't think I'll be hearing from him again. I said, if you wanted to, I'm sure you could rekindle things, I'm here for you, but just know if you do, I'm done. She said your threatening me, I said no, I'm telling you. I never raised my voice (maybe a little) I just told her what the line was. Her tone changed quite a bit. She puffed a little about taking the kids to Houston because she has an opportunity there. To which I made it VERY clear. I live in Austin, my kids live in Austin. Didn't care for that, but she knows she has little chance. Anyway, she started becoming much calmer and more or less started spewing her psyco babble about this and that.But I told her the whole time, I am here. I will continue to be here to support you and the kids. I told her if she was willing to try, I am here. I know she is going to be down for a while (how hard is that to take) but I would stick with her and commit to fixing this. Any contact with OM amd we're done. I know this is all just starting, but she make's me friggin sick when I here that crap. I have been unbelievably nice through it all. HOW anyone could or would put up with this for a prolonged period is beyond me. I can deal with the moping (to a degree) but telling me how she was "IN love" with him makes me want to puke. This is a guy she has been with in person all of about 25 days. I love the "you ruined it comment" TS! Her family and freinds are beating her up, she has NO support and is feeling like crap. I ALMOST feel sorry for her.....almost.I really have tried to follow this plan, but once in a while, you need to stand up and say enough.

Hi Patriot,

Look let me tell you what I think. I think you are talking to her too much. By that I mean, you simply look her in the eye and say: "Dear, You made decisions, immoral decisions and the price you could pay for those decisions are high. It is time you reversed the cranial transplant and realize all that has happened are the consequences of YOUR decisions. I simply don't want to hear that you are mad at me because you had an affair and I called you on it. Call you parents and complain to them about it."

My point is simply she still thinks she can guilt you into something as long as she thinks this she is clearly not realizing how close everything is to blowing up in her face.

And frankly why she would rather live in Houston than Austin indicates she is not thinking well. I'll take Austin anyday.

Patriot you can plan A and still set your boundaries. Have you sought out a counselor or clergy, or a parent and have them come talk to her? Does she have any friends that might be able to talk to her?

Keep making plans to protect yourself and your children, and make sure the lawyer knows you don't want those children of yours moved.

You actually did very well in the conversation, but she still thinks that you won't leave her and you know, I know and the others her know that you can and will. She is a danger to your family until she figures out that her leverage is gone.

Please think about it.

God Bless,

JL

""Dear, You made decisions, immoral decisions and the price you could pay for those decisions are high. It is time you realize all that has happened are the consequences of YOUR decisions. I simply don't want to hear that you are mad at me because you had an affair and I called you on it. Call you parents and complain to them about it.""

Great advice made a little better without the sarcasm.

Patriot, I am going to ask you a serious question. Is there a huge disparity in the level of intelligence your wife posesses and your own?
You write well and are articulate, as well as very clear headed, IMO. You wife, on the other hand, sound not very bright. I know there is ths " fog" deal that is alluded to. But, seriously, could you imagine yourself, having been busted as your wife has, taking the positions she takes? She sounds immature even for a teenager. What was life like with her before her cheating? Were you the "parent" to her? I do not see how this woman could possibly function in the real world and how she could have been an equal partner to you.

Sounds just exactly like all textbook waywards to me.

God's Blessings,

Say

Absolutely!

They all act like love sick teenagers and total psychotics.

Typical wayward behavior reads like a list of symptoms of BPD and NPD rolled into one.

With a little mania thrown in for good measure.

Mark

Mania seems to favor female waywards....with a couple guys sprinkled in.

PSUBIKERs X, Pariah's X.....Chai's X.... AB3's X....

Well last night was hell. She went ballistic because she thought I was going to file and ask for custody. Got the over my dead body, you wont ever get a dime from me. They are my kids and it's joint custody or nothing. I (after repeated attempts) said "how can you do that and travel". She said FU I'll figure it out. Screaming and holloring...pure nuts. Then she calmed down and we talked for a while. I said "neither one of wants to continue feeling bad and living like this. I asked her what she wanted. I don't know..I want a divorce. No I don't. Then she goes into right now I don't want you touching me, there is no chemistry between us and I don't think I'll ever get it back. I said the feeling right now is mutual, but it was there once and I'm willing to work at getting it back. The OM seems to be out for right now. She keeps saying I don't have to worry about him anymore, I put the stake in that. I know if she gets the chance she would get back with him, but right now he seems out. She's incredibly pissed about me telling her parents. That seems to be the biggest issue right now. Problem with her parents is they are so mad they will not return her call. I'll have to call and talk with them. So this is all text book huh??? And there is really coming back from all this? Seems pretty bleak to me. I think the best thing right now is to just not talk to her about any of this. There is just hate there right now. The other thing is she will not talk to anyone about it.

Yep.


Sometimes.



Good idea.

"textbook?" you ask......

ABSO-FREAKIN-LUTELY!!!!!!

Two days after I busted H and OW togther I also heard the " you took her away from me" line coupled with the "You never wanted me to be happy" and "you only wanted me because I belonged to someone else" lines.....hurts like he77, but it is straight from the wayward manual.....keep loving her through this...one day she will see you as her hero!!!!

Not2fun

ps.....I also got the "it was the best sex" line coupled with "she was better than you".......there are ways to make that laughable

[tj]

Not2fun,

You must have learned all this stuff since you went through it yourself, 'cause at the time it was happening...



[/tj]

Pat45: Why do you have to talk to her parents? If it has to do with your kids, then fine. But if you are trying to smooth things over between them for her sake...I'd advise backing off.

She made this mess. Let her clean it up.

Yes Patriot, this is ALL straight from the book...5 years ago Mr. W could have written your post about me - I look back and cringe - I can't believe what I put him through - I'll never stop being remorseful for my actions and grateful for his...My first posts on this board were asking if I could ever regain my feelings for him - and I'm embarrassed to say that I also said : "I still have feelings of love for OM" -

I told Mr. W essentially the same things your WW is telling you now - "I feel trapped" - "Okay, fine, you win, I'll stay, but I will NEVER, EVER love you - I hope you're happy!" [ultra cringe]...I'm also ashamed to admit that I cried on Mr. W's shoulder about the *cough*bullcrap*cough* "break-up" [massive uber cringe to infinity power]...

And here we are now, 5 years later - and all is better than well - it's amazing - neither of us can believe how close we are - we read Dr. Harley's books - went to the MB weekend - worked the lessons - practice MB daily - and IT WORKS! The goal of MB is to fall [and stay] romantically in love with your spouse - and that's exactly where we are...it's absolutely possible...

And that is how things must go for you - meaning, set the bar high - do not accept a one-sided recovery - MB works if both parties work it - After no contact was firmly established, Mr. W's boundary was stated to me like this : "I refuse to live in a loveless marriage." I believed him...

But that stuff is for later - right now expect that she is gonna be a remorseless - mopey and downright MEAN shrew...sucks, I know, but that is the way it will be for a while...

We got through the withdrawal period by avoiding too many relationship talks - and Mr. W was with me all the time - even when I didn't think I wanted him to be - it was like you describe your WW being "I hate you - don't leave me"...

Concentrate on doing FUN things - we went to movies [comedies] - if you can swing it, don't just do things together at night, try to throw in things that you didn't do before - it makes things more "exciting" - "out of the ordinary", so do some matinees and lunches afterward - talk & laugh about the movie you just saw - not anything "deep" just yet - we also went to comedy clubs - Irish sing along pubs - anything where we could have FUN side-by-side without it requiring too much "where do we go from here" stuff...We tried to recreate our "courtship" - mind you that was tough since we were no longer 23 and 25 - lol - but we did it...FEELINGS FOLLOW ACTIONS - remember that...

Take a vacation together if you are able - the more you can get away from the mundane, "regular stuff" right now, the better...Frame everything with fun and excitement as best you can...Withdrawal will be more palatable for you both that way...Dream out loud with her about the future - what kinds of things has she always wanted? Indulge her with talk about that stuff...

After the worst of the withdrawal period is over - consider ordering His Needs, Her Needs on CD and take a road trip together to listen to it - pausing to talk at different intervals - Mr. W and I did that - it marked a great break through in our early recovery - to give you an idea of the time line - my affair ended, hmmmmmmm ?end of May/beginning of June? [to show you that it DOES get better, I just had to ask Mr. W exactly when it ended and he couldn't remember either - that is a product of working the MB program, btw - you make so many good memories that the old bad ones fade - THANK GOD!] - anyway, there WAS a brief email contact in July [for which I got my butt handed to me here on the forum - and rightfully so] - We took our road trip and listened to HN/HN in August...things got progressively better from that point on...

I see great hope for your situation, Patriot - Not2Fun is right, someday your WW will absolutely see you as a hero - she will be awed by your grace and mercy...You are doing great...Hang in there...

Mrs. W