Kaycstamper,
You are right - but of course you know that.
I think I keep holding out hope that something will change to make me change my opinion of the situation. At this point, I just don't see it. There's still way too much drama, there's still lies about the affairs, there's still massive debt that he keeps taking on for his grown children - and I mean massive - so massive that if he lost his business he would lose everything.

This limbo life I'm living is just really depressing. I can be so good for only so long and then I start slipping backward into the muck that was our marriage.

I want to move on and move forward and close doors but, I just can't seem to do it, in part b/c of my feelings for him and in part b/c of how sorry I feel for him but, I know that that is a part of the hold and a part of the problem.

Sorry, feeling blue and rambling.

Well, an interesting day yesterday. My XH and I had dinner together. He told me that he had been lying and that he had been "talking" to someone - by that he meant taking to lunch, text messages, phone conversations and she spent the night at his house one night b/c she showed up drunk and crying after leaving a party - but nothing happened.
He said that he was on the verge of "dating" her - what was all the above - not sure but, he caught her in a couple of lies so ended it.
Do I believe all that - no - but I want to.
So, here I am pining away wanting what we had, wanting to think we could work through the stack of issues and reconcile and not seeing or talking to anyone or trying to put myself out there to be asked out - and believing him - and he's out there dating and lying about it.
So, all of you that know my history and have read my posts, how do I - and I mean my needy, twisted self!!! - go on from here? I'm in a really bad place right now and don't want to live here anymore.

Stop seeing/talking with your ex. It's a simple as that.

Life --

You remind me of my teenage daughter.

She was in a horribly toxic relationship and simply could not break the connection.

I would tell her that if she could go 2 weeks without contact, then the next 2 weeks, then before long she would stop pining for him. What actually happened is that he started dating someone else, she found out -- they had yet another drama filled argument about it. But FINALLY they ceased contact.

I can promise you that you will never be happy with your XH.
I remember well your posts about him.

You can wish for the good days, but you have to face the fact that they are over and can't come back. There has been too much damage. You can't have what you had before.

For your own sake. Stop trying to make this work.
You are missing out on what you COULD have.....

L2S,

Exactly what your name says, Life's Too Short. Stop wasting time pining for a man who knows he can come back to you anytime, doesn't seem like he's remorseful even. And is playing yo-yo with you. Here's the boot: you let yourself be his yo-yo. And, you know he's already shopping around for a new toy. Stop wasting time, L, you haven't got a reason to want him! He's not committed to you anymore.

That someone, is going to be You. You are going to show the hurt, afraid, lonely You interest. You are going to mend You. Make new friends: join an interest group and surround yourself with people. Learn a new trick, get good at a hobby, anything!

When my cheating xH split, I followed MB rules, no contact. It was difficult at first, he came back often and we had SF. But when the divorce papers were signed, I knew he may have other interests elsewhere, I bolted him out. I wasn't going to let him shave at my already low self esteem. I participated in two interest groups and made a new group of friends to be around with. I was on MB everyday. I was a mess, so I didn't bother with dating: men can tell you are emotionally unstable anyway, I wanted my dignity and self esteem back first.

With my new friends, I learnt photography, I went on photo trips and by the end of the first year, I had three beautiful photographs for our group exhibition. That was quite an achievement for me: a first timer at photography. I hung out with them so much, they took me under their wing like brothers. I lost a H, but gained 100 good friends who care about me. The second and third year, I went hiking: did lots of adventure sports. End of third year, I climbed a mountain. The highest in my region. Last year, I started on my masters program. Do I look back at my marriage? Yes. I do. I look back and I say I wasted time waiting for the man to love me properly. I wasted time listening to those lies. I wasted time wanting to hear what'll fix my broken heart.

You said you wish to travel after retirement. What's stopping you from doing it now? The years after my divorce were the years I travelled most. Oh, I didn't have money for fancy places like Europe. I travelled locally with my photography and hiking friends. I learnt how lovely it is to have company, to sleep amongst groups of people: we slept in dorms, in tents and I smile thinking of the nocturnal orchestra of snores. We went to volcanoes, camped deep in the jungle, saw wild animals at night, learnt survival skills, fell deep into the river, had a car accident, took the 4wd out to nowhere and looked at stars... I met the national paralympics team and saw how their disability didn't stop them from doing great things, I worked with the deaf and realise their lives will always be at a disadvantaged position... I did many things that I wouldn't have imagined doing. I wouldn't exchange the years after divorce for anything, L! I had so much fun! Being single and able to make decisions at a spur, not having to consult x gave me my life back. X wouldn't have done all those things with me. He would be jealous, yes, but would never go on an adventure with me. I do think of what my ex has done in those years too: probably squandered more money that he doesn't have, sleeping around... I don't want to be the wife at the losing end. You know, unless something devastating hit these cheaters, they will never come around. They will always deceive themselves into thinking it's ok, everyone does it, I know I can just sweet talk her(you) with an apology and get away with it.

One of the things that stopped me from going back to my ex was the memory of how my parents scrimped and saved to give me a good university education. They sacrificed so I can have a good life as an adult. I look at all the blessings I have and know God loves me, the sun shines everyday even though I am miserable so things can't be that bad. I can't bear the thought of me being in a relationship where someone else treated me so poorly, so I choose to step out of the relationship. He can't treat you poorly if you are not there. Wanting to hear ILYs means giving him control, power over you. You take that power back. You owe yourself to be treated well. You do just that. You have the means to do it.

As for being alone in the future, I think about that too. But I can't control the future. I can control the now and what I want to do now. So I make the best of now. I have lonely days now too, but they are not miserable days and they don't last long at all. If I am alone in the future, at least I have lived a life worth telling. I will continue to chart different courses in my life. I found my mentors amongst my new friends and they are in their 70s. I say to myself, when I am in my 70s, I want to be like them, healthy, happy, wise, with stories to tell. And also: you do it because you want to be good example to your kids.

L, close the door. Bolt it and throw away the keys. We'll be here to help you through those lonely, angry, desperate days. But there's something I can guarantee you: it will not be the end of your life. It will be the beginning of your journey to loving and discovering yourself. You know you are a good you. You said so in your post; teeth and all God only gave you a small hurdle. Come on, jump, you can do it.

Okay. Bring out the 2x4s, railroad ties, torches........

I am still in contact with my X. I really haven't changed anything. I am very torn because of my faith. As a Christian I am to forgive and I know that God has restored many broken relationships. There are many success stories here on MB.

So, my question is why could my R not be restored? Is there a way to rebuild trust? If these things are possible, what would I see my XH doing to rebuild that faith and trust?

Please help me with this even if you have to post the same things you have already posted. I don't have anyone else I can talk to about this and I really need help sorting through this. Please don't give up on me.

Don't use your faith as an excuse to allow yourself to be abused. That isn't faith and it isn't what God wants. Sure, if you were raped God would want you to forgive the rapist, but he wouldn't want you to go out on a date with him in a secluded park after you've been drinking.

Forgiveness is letting go of the anger and hurt that you feel for your ex. It doesn't mean restoration. Forgiveness is for YOU not for your ex. Forgiveness frees you.

I'll say again: Forgiveness is NOT restoration. It is NOT making everything as it once was.

Sure, God wants people to stay married. Sure God wants you to forgive. But you are his beautiful daughter. In you is an element of the divine, an element of Him. He doesn't want that abused. He doesn't want that element of divinity within you tortured by some manipulative twisting of his Word.


Yes, it can be. But the way is straight and narrow. You must remember that you are a daughter of a heavenly being. You have intrinsic value and worth. By realizing this you will recognize that you MUST set the bar for recovery VERY high. So high - that your ex may not be able to reach it.

He will need to engage in treatment programs for his angry and physically abusive behavior.
He will have to willingly and eagerly commit to the Marriage Builders program. No buts, no "I like it x way". No reservations. No holding anything back. He needs to be jumping all over himself to do ALL of MB.
He must commit to a program of complete and radical honesty FOR LIFE and be eager to do so. All emails, all texts, are open for your view. He has a GPS on his person/ car at all times. He calls you whenever he gets someplace and when he leaves. He tells you about all his conversations. He removes any and all female friends. He is never alone with a woman, ever. The key is he must be WILLING AND EAGER to do this.

In order for this marriage to be repaired he must show true and sincere repentance. Read Psalms 51. That is the attitude of a truly repentant sinner. That is the attitude of someone willing to make the changes necessary for a good marriage after they have sinned so egregiously against it. Particularly notice:


His heart should break for what he has done to you.

Until he is to that point - there is no hope of recovery. You must protect yourself - as a daughter of a God who loves you - from his abuse.

Vibrissa. Thank you for the post. I need to take some time and really digest all that you've said and read Psalms 51.
He has never been radically honest with me. Even now, he gets multiple texts when we are together. Sometimes he will say who the texts are from and sometimes he says nothing. It's those times that I wonder who sent the text.
I still don't trust him when we are apart (or together when he's not honest about the phone).
There are times when I think back on all that has happened and I believe there is no chance for us. Then, I think about having to start over (I don't want to be alone) and I am hesitant about going through my past w/someone new.
I really want to move on but something holds me back. Then, I start to wonder if I'm not moving on b/c it is God's will for us to get back together.
I'm really mixed up.

L2S, Maybe it's God's will that you two get back together, but there's a BIG obstacle in the way--God gave each one of us free will, and for any relationship to work, both people need to be engaged in the relationship to approximately the same level. So far, your H has not demonstrated that he wants the kind of marital relationship you want. In each of his actions, he's making a choice.

In my own personal experience, God is willing to work miracles, but not when it impeeds our own growth. Sometimes, for our own good, God refuses to act. We must act first.

So, it may be the case, that God wants you to take advantage of this "growth opportunity." I call the really bad times "growth opportunities" because I noticed how much I grow in character, compassion, understanding, and fortitude during the really awful times.

I'm starting over AGAIN!!!!!! I'm not pleased about it. But, it's not so bad. Sure, being alone is lonely sometimes. Other times, it's wonderful to be in complete control and only answer to yourself. (I find this is when Mike's ghost pops up to knock me down a few pegs. LOL)

Plus, you have to really ask yourself if you are alone. For almost every one of us, the answer is no. We have friends and family to help us enjoy life. And we have God when everyone else fails us. Not being in a romantic relationship can be lonely, but it's not all that bad. It sure as heck beats being in a bad romantic relationship, and there's always the possiblity of finding someone who is a good mate.

Thanks. I know exactly what you mean. I absolutely hate being the 5th wheel whenever we go somewhere together as a family: my sister & brother-in-law, my niece and her husband, my daughter, my niece's daughter and ME. I'm the only adult alone and it really bites. But, when one of the spouses is being a butt, it's so nice to say "see you later" or quietly thank God that I'm no longer on the receiving end of THAT.

Then, there are times when I want someone around and there's no one. I do lean on my XH, and he on me, when it comes to doing things around the house, paperwork or someone to go to eat or ride bikes with.

I have very conflicting thoughts when it comes to my XH. There's so much that occurred during our marriage and separation that I don't ever want a repeat of. Then, there ar times when I think taht myabe we haven't moved on for a reason.

I just don't know and I drive myself crazy with the uncertaintly. I'm not marrried but not divorced either. I know that I don't want the R that we had and I'm not certain taht we can work through all our stuff in order to have the R I want.

You know... Maybe it's time to try Match.com. It's got a lot more people than eharmony. You can create a profile, then hide it. Search for men you like within a driving distance and contact them. Go out on some dates. Go out on a whole bunch of first dates, even with men you might not usually. You need someone you can call instead of your X when you want to grab a bite to eat.

Also, you may want to check out MeetUp.com. This site is not a dating site but is a place to find groups of people with similar interests. This would be a great place to find male friends to have dinner with or trade help around the house. You know, he fixes the gate and you sew the buttons back on, or vice versa.

I think once you have other men to compare your X to, you'll start to get a better feel for what you should be doing. Plus, once you're less emotionally dependent on him, you'll be able to make the choice without being clouded by fear.

I'm sorry, but for you to put up with all you have from your ex has left him with absolutely ZERO respect for you at this point. You have got to love and respect yourself before you can expect anyone to love and respect you. You are not being very kind or loving to yourself by allowing yourself to go trough all of this for this length of time.

God has a great plan for your life, but you are STUCK in a place that will not allow that plan to come about. God wants to give you a fresh beginning but this will only happen when you stop looking back. You have had time to grieve your loss, and now it's time to trust God and move on and allow God to do a new thing in your life.

No one knows if God's plan includes your ex or not. However, you have got to trust God and have some self-respect and realize God does not want you to stay trapped in a hopeless situation.

You need to work to find out why you have thought so little of yourself that you would settle for this in your life. Rediscover the amazing woman that you are and start to live life again!!!

You cannot change the past but you can decide to step forward into the future God has for you. A closed door simply means that God has something better in store in your life, but you have to allow Him to show you what it is!!!

It's funny that Sidney posted this because this morning I was thinking about the story of Lot's wife looking back and turning into a pillar of salt. I hadn't thought of it in context of L2S's story, only in context of my own. But, it applies here too.

Yes, we're leaving a lot of really good stuff behind us, stuff that made life feel a little more comfortable. BUT, there's something ahead that we need ot get to, and if we hang onto the past, we'll be stuck, paralyzed.

Wow, Sidney's post hit me dead on target!

I am now six weeks out from the final decree. So much has changed in my life since the ex-wife firebombed our marriage. Not one aspect of my life has been left untouched. I have had no choice but to accept the fact that God is in charge and I am not.

My income and health insurance are gone. Since I have to focus on finding work so I can pay my bills and take care of my health concerns, I'm actually glad that I don't have a relationship to occupy myself with right now.

Never having been an overly religious person, I now find myself attending church, going to a Bible study, and trying to learn what God wants me to do. I'm terrible at trying to run my own life!

I'd hate to think where I'd be if I allowed myself to get stuck. I've read too many stories here of people who can't seem to find a way to get clear. That could have been me too, if I'd let it. Don't YOU let it, either!

Yes, the uncertain future is scary, but it can't be any worse than staying in a rut that's no better than a grave...

Fred, I have noticed a difference in your posts (can see your faith building) which is great.

I honestly don't know how anyone gets through such a horrendously painful thing as an affair and/or divorce without knowing, relying on and trusting God.

Thanks to all of you for sticking with me. Fred, part of the issue I am dealing with now is the fact that my XH no longer has health insurance as he was insured through me. He has had some major back and neck surgeries, needs another one but can't afford it or find anyone to insure him, and I feel so guilty over it.
It isn't my fault that he doesn't have insurance yet I hurt for him that he doesn't have it. I do know that his actions are to blame for it yet I know that he could have insurance if we remarried.
I know that sounds crazy, but I sometimes think it.
There are times when I just want to close the door and have him go away and then there are times when I think I would die if that happened.
I find myself getting emotionally close to him and we start enjoying each other's company and then, all of a sudden, something happens that sets us back to square one again.
I realize just how stupid this whole thing sounds. I know it's stupid yet I can't seem to make that break.

L2S, I think what you're describing is the difference between you and your XH: You have a conscience and he does not.

Yesterday, at an A.A. Step meeting, we were discussing the 4th Step: "Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves." One of the aspects of doing this inventory is to identify "what was my part in it [whatever the issue is]?"

When my ex-wife left our marriage and committed the adultery that wound up ending it, I had to work a 4th Step. I wrote three typewritten pages on what my part in the dissolution of our marriage was. The reason I did this was because I have a conscience. She does not.

I'm fine with myself and what I did, what I didn't do, and what I could have done that I didn't. I wasn't perfect in the marriage, but I didn't have an affair. Because I have a conscience.

Today, the bill collectors still call for her. She left the house WE picked out, and is living in an apartment she can barely afford. She bought a used car since I kept the one I bought for her. I don't know if she has health insurance, but I do know she has no credit.

I don't feel guilty about that at all. Even though I have a conscience. Because I know what my part in it was, and what her part was. I'm good with that.

Good morning to everyone! Well, another eventful night.
My XH is doing some renovation work at my house. The house is all torn up so he suggested that I stay at his house. I KNEW it was a bad idea, but I've always had a hard time saying "no" so I went along. We watched TV for a while and, when it was time to go to bed, he said he would sleep in the guest room and I could take his room.
I know how hard sleep is for him and how he hurts post surgeries so I said "no, I'll take the other room or sleep on the couch."
Well, long story short I made him mad. So, now we're back to "it will never work", "I will finish your house but we need to move on", and then of course he went back to our marriage when his kids were living with us and all that I did wrong and how I treated them.
Then, we went to the fact that we want different things out of life, especially SF, and that we need to find other people that will meet our needs.
I am so, so confused this morning.
I want to move on but I can't seem to make that final break.
Now, he is saying (this has happened multiple times before) that he is moving to another state where his cousins are to find a job with benefits and start his life over where no one knows him.

Thoughts? Thanks for hanging in there with me as I cannot discuss this with anyone else.

I think I'm having a panic attack. He told me earlier today that he had a meeting and might not be able to talk but could text if necessary. Got a text earlier that he would call me when he could.
He called earlier to say he would not be home until around 9:30 pm and that he might have found a job and that if he got it he would have to move. He wouldn't say where to but that he would tell me later.
He really needs a job with benefits so he will have health insurance as he has multiple health issues that need to be addressed. If we were married he would have insurance but ........
I should be happy for him and in some ways I am but I know that if he leaves I will be devastated.
I am so absolutely miserable. I want what seems to not be possible and that is to have him and my family, too. I have to choose and that choice is being forced by my family.
I have to say that he has tried to make amends but some members of my family have not responded. I know that my family loves me and wants what they believe is the best for me and I know they believe he is not good for me. I do understand all that and I understand that they have good reason for feeling that way. There are also many times that he will say or do something and I think "that's one of the reasons we aren't together now."
I wish I didn't care. I wish I had closed the door when the first affair occurred so many years ago.
I wish, I wish, I wish.
I imagine many of you will tell me that this is the best thing that could happen, and there are times that I would agree, but right now I feel like my heart is being ripped open. This is totally my fault because I allowed myself to stay engaged as opposed to divorcing and moving on so I am getting what I deserve.
I know this is rambling and I know that many of you may be thinking "what an idiot", but it is how I feel. Again, I have lingering thoughts about whether there is a chance that we could work things out.
I have to say as well that it always seems that every time I am getting ready to leave for an extended period of time something like this comes up and I go away feeling crushed and sad and miserable.
Please continue to help me through this as I have no one to talk to about how I feel.

L2S, Tell me if I'm wrong but I also hear a lot of fear in your post. "What will I do without him?"

I do think this may turn out to be the best thing for you. That doesn't change that fact that you are pretty unhappyr right now.

All I can tell you is that this too shall pass. A new normal will begin to take shape and soon you'll be comfortable with it.

Also, another thought. There's a man from my past who lived in my heart for very many years even though he was really not good for or to me. In the last 24 years, we've grown into the people we were meant to be, and surprise! We are completely incompatible. LOL. But he'll always have a place in my heart, and if he needed anything, I'd be there within reason. Of course, the same courtesy probably wouldn't be extended to me.

I'm telling you this because this may be the role your exhusband will play in your life. Best not to talk to him, no contact. But, you'll always care a little bit.