Ed - I think your new relationship is premature and it is messing with your perspective.

Not that I'm persuaded that your wife has an scant amount of sincerity - she doesn't. She's jealous and immature and still unwilling to look at her own issues with extracurricular relationships.

You're not clear here to have a relationship with a woman besides your wife. And it will harm that woman who doesn't deserve to be hurt - YOU WILL HURT HER because you haven't jettisoned the baggage with your wife. So go to the Colts game with a friend, or give the tickets away. It's just not worth it.

I do agree, that if I am willing to give WW a chance to prove she has changed, then I should stop seeing this girl.

However, I am still not convinced I want to even give her a chance. I doubt her sincerity...and on top of her immaturity, and lack of remorse and insight, she caught oral herpes from OM...that disgusts me!

I thought I was headed towards D, so I emotionally had moved on. Now that WW, is saying she wants to work on things, I need to step back and look at things once again. I agree that I should put any other relationships on hold until I am actually divorced, if that is the direction I choose to go.

I'm still hung up on the last line of her email about how her moving back will crush OM.

HUH?

Hey... we wouldn't want to hurt OM's feelings now would we? Lol!!!

Things like that make me think I should get out while I can...

Ed, you do need to stop seeing this girl, but giving your wife an opportunity to show her changes should not mean that you slow down this divorce. You should not.

You told your wife that you would consider giving her chance IF she made those changes. You did not tell her that you would let her move back in if she made empty promises. And that is all this is. Empty promises to manipulate you.

You are in a terrible predicament right now because you do continue to harbor feelings for your W so when she throws a nothing crumb your way, you crumble. And I fully understand this. This is why you need to just end this now with a Plan B letter and STOP THIS.

You DO NOT have to explain or justify yourself to her. I would end this now and stop this debating. Your life is not up for negotiation or debate.

Tell her that her emails have convinced you that nothing has changed. Until she demonstrates some meaningful changes over time, you are not going to discuss or debate it, much less consider reconciliation. If reconciliation happens, it will be a slow process based on demonstrated changes, not a hasty decision based on promises.

wow, that is an appealing offer! NOT!!

She still thinks that she can negotiate the terms of her return, Ed. She is not sincere and will only come back and hurt you, hurt your kids and destroy your current legal advantage. '

Take a pass, friend!

Pot calling the kettle black. Ed should not be dating while still married until divorce is final.

When Melody spends a lot of time posting on a thread like yours it means she is concerned about the BS welbeing.
You can get hurt again by your WW, lose your kids and your home. She is really selfish and no way close to wanting to R the M and make the necessary changes. And the language she uses...says it all. Plus..oral herpes...please!
Divorce her and then date whomever you want. If I were you she would have to walk on water before I took her back.
BUT the funny thing about us BS is that we really do not see how messed up the WS are! Everybody does but us. We still love them (or so we think) so as soon as they give us a carrot we think we have hope...we can be so easily fooled!
blessing

Ed, I don't think there have been as many people shouting at you to open your eyes since I arrived just a few months ago.

I didn't want to listen to them, at first. I loved my wife: She was beautiful, loving, attentive, sexy -- everything I wanted.

Except that she had flaws and disorders a mile long and a yard high, and I chose to ignore them. People here kept saying, "Wake up, Fred. WAKE THE F UP!!!"

Finally, I woke up.

The people here held my hands, worked with me to try to recover my marriage all the while telling me, "This is a bad idea, Fred."

It was a bad idea.

My WW finally took her leave. She bailed on me, showing pettiness, and many sides of her I had not seen (but other had) before.

Today, not even a week out from the last bombardment, I'm finally sleeping again. I find I'm able to laugh again. I'm looking forward to things to come in my life.

Perhaps the most painful thing in my life today is coming here and reading other peoples' stories. Given the horror shows that are written here every day, I count myself lucky and blessed that I got away lightly.

It's your call, Ed. Go back and read through your entire thread (I did -- twice). You might find it quite enlightening. Then, maybe you'll be in a better place to make a decision...

Hmm... incurable STD? That would be a no-brainer for me - it's D-time IMO.

Ditto, shes just coming back because her safety blanket (you) is seemingly being yanked away from her by this (ow).

Ill wiki oral herpes, but it sounds like shes damaged goods, she might have other STD's you dont know about.

yep...incurable

Herpes viruses establish lifelong infections and the virus cannot currently be eradicated from the body. Treatment usually involves general-purpose antiviral drugs that interfere with viral replication, reducing the physical severity of outbreak-associated lesions and lowering the chance of transmission to others. Studies of vulnerable patient populations have indicated that daily use of antivirals such as acyclovir and valacyclovir can reduce HSV-2 shedding by 60-80% and cut HSV-2 transmission risk in half.[4]

In vitro research has indicated that Aloe Vera may be effective against genital herpes.[27]

Research into a vaccine is ongoing. Efforts to develop an effective vaccine have so far been hampered by the many adaptations of HSVs to their human hosts during an evolutionarily ancient relationship.[4]

Tell her:
You know what? I'm tired of dealing with a 12-year-old. I'll move forward with the divorce. You go find yourself a high school stud.

Thanks for the laugh cat...I feel the same way the more I think about this. The quotes are unreal.

Her issues are a result of our broken relationship, which is of course all my fault. She just wants to be "loved and adored" If only I had known...a few flowers every now and then and some flirty text messages would have made everything better. She had the nerve to actually tell me how romantic OM was that he speaks to french to her...she doesn't even know french!! Please...

I spoke with her a little while ago and she said that unless she comes back to the house, this will not work. She is just jealous and trying to control me. I stood my ground and said this is not negotiable and that I am moving forward with the divorce unless a miracle happens. She then proceeded to go back to saying how clueless I was...I knew that things were bad, neglected her, am unromantic, blah blah. No change at all here! Good riddance...

That sounds so familiar. I busted out laughing reading it. My fwxw said the same thing. The french part was hillarious...DUDE

Ed,

I just finished reading your thread. I was married to someone just like your WW. Click on "notify" at the bottom of the thread and let the mods know I can have your email. I can talk to you offline with details.

The general details are this:

My ex is EXACTLY like yours, with the exception of the loss of patience for the kids. That's taken care of by letting others care for them.

The words about being loved and adored show a massive level of immaturity and expectations about marriage and relationships. She's in love with being in love and doesn't understand that true love comes AFTER those butterflies have left.

Like you, I was chastised for not being romantic enough or attentive enough and like you I was told that the OM she had a one night fling with told her all the things she was starving to hear.

Like you I was yelled at for seeing a female friend of mine AFTER our D.

Right now jealousy is at play for her.

I advise you very strongly to not date romantically right now. You're fence sitting on divorce and if you sleep with this other woman you will have added fuel to the fire. If she's truly just a friend, then keep it that way for now until you are 100% certain the divorce will proceed.

It has been 4 years since my D. It took time for me to heal, but I have and I went through phazes where I dated a ton, then didn't date. Not dating was very helpful in my healing process and I needed it.

My gut is telling me that your WW had some form of sexual abuse as a child. She has many of the symptoms in your descriptions of her and her ideas regarding love and attention.

That is something not easily fixed. If it's not sexual abuse, then there is very likely a personality disorder at play, but those are even harder to fix.

I'm now 4 years on and have been dating a very mature woman, who is on her own with her own career, and who is as much a giver as I am. We balance each other and I WANT to do things for her and give her flowers and be romantic because it isn't demanded of me. It is simply something I wish to do (which reminds me that I haven't done it in a few months and need to do it again).

I have recently seen my ex with her bf and she has him trained well. I was him once and did all the same stuff. I finally saw him and realized that he is how others saw me and some had the guts enough to tell me.

I'm very grateful that I'm no longer sentenced to that life of caring for a person that is THAT needy.

For Melodylane to advise you that this woman is broken and that the amount of work to fix her is massive says a lot. There's no bigger champion of saving marriages on this board than Melodylane.

The final thought is that you CANT fix her at all. The change needs to come from her and the fact that she cheated on you really puts the ball in her court to do the hard work which she is clearly unwilling to do. From her perspective, she is the victim who sought attention elsewhere because you weren't attentive enough so it is truly your fault, not hers, that she cheated. She's likely to forever see it this way.

Talk to me offline and I can give you more specific details, but your WW is broken and has massive issues you'll never be able to fix.

helpforlostdads, please email me at revera01@aol.com to complete the email exchange.

Thanks

So WW met with a lawyer last week and I think is having second thoughts about D. She sends me an e-mail yesterday asking if I am 100% sure this is what I want and if it is really hopeless. I explained that I never wanted a D, but this is the situation we are in and as it stands right now I feel it is hopeless. Her A is not even over.

However she says she would be willing to end the A, if I would committ to working on things too. There is no way I would ever consider letting her back into the house right now. I actually kind of wish she would just sign the papers so that this could be over.

But I am still feeling conflicted. I did not want our family to be blown up like this. But based on everything that has happened and the things she has said, I do not want to be married to her anymore. She still makes comments about how she hates the lifestyle of raising a family, and just wants her freedome. I feel like it would take a miracle for her to change.

So part of me feels like telling her that this is hopeless and that we should go our seperate ways. I feel like she has very deep issues that she may never confront and deal with. Her A was not your typical A about unmet emotional needs. Her umnet needs were those of a 14 yr old girl - those of you that have read my thread will know what I mean. I guess I am having a tough time pulling the trigger...still holding onto a glimmer of hope.

But even if she does demonstrate a change in her behavior...ending her affair and demonstrating some mature insight into her actions and our marriage, I would be very skeptical...it could just be temporary changes in behavior, and then I am back in the same situation a year or two from now.

I guess the question is...how do you know for sure that it is hopeless and I am dealing with someone who is broken beyond repair? This has been so tough and I feel like D would give me closure. I just don't want to rush it or give up to early. Thanks.

You can't get guarantees. Not happening.

You can increase your odds for recovery by getting the WW to do the following.

NC with the OM.

Move away from any OM that lives close by.

Writes an NC letter that you get to approve and you send.

Lives transparent. GPS cell phone. All passwords to comp and cell.

Reveals how she contacted OM and remove those methods.

Gets new email and phone no.

Answers all questions about affair.

You both counsel with the Harleys to improve yourselves and the marriage.

Other's may remember whatever I have left out.

Is WW living with the OM now?

Call her tell her she has to do this now. No fence sitting, no keeping you as a back up plan.