crazy,

this is the list of what my wife required from me before she would consider reconciliation. She is a very wise lady!

ok Crazy you have to hear these ppl out on here take in everything you can...

Hes threating you.. HE has NO ROOM to threaten you.. HE is in the wrong YOU are not. YOU decided if YOU want to save this M after what HES done.

I have been slowly coming to terms with the fact that he did this to me by CHOICE. I guess I never wanted to admit that my husband had so little respect and love for me. Maybe giving in to all his excuses made me believe that he does love me and if it weren't for bad things happening this wouldn't have happened.

Sad truth is I am afraid I know in my heart that he would have cheated on me. If not for these events in our life, for others down the road........

Well until there is proven ongoing contact I don't see any need for exposure. But if you get notice of ANY contact whatsoever, expose nuclear-style! OM's parents, your older child, OW's spouse, parents, the bar patrons, FB friends... everyone you can think of.

The casual friendship remained because WH didn't kill it. It had NOTHING to do with whether or not you moved home. He's making up excuses. The bottom line is he didn't (or doesn't) want to do the right thing.

When he asks if you're moving in, ask him what his plans are to EARN your trust and respect. Tell him that you desire nothing more than to remain married to him, to live under one roof, and to have a mutually fulfilling relationship. That is what you want more than anything in the world. If he wants the same thing he has to EARN his way into it. What are his plans to do so?

Then just sit back and be quiet. Don't feed him any answers. If he gets angry, he's still wayward (in thought if not in deed). If he hems and haws, he's not yet serious about recovery and you're safer living separately until he comes around or until you grow tired of his games.

IMO.

crazygirl, I agree with the others.

As long as he feels he can justify the behavior, he is a very very high risk for rekindling the A or starting a new A. If he can't acknowledge the A happened due to his own weak boundaries (such as going out to bars at night), how will he be able to protect the M in the future?

If I do the math, he was 31 when he started dating you when you were 18??

And he's cheated on you, twice now, that you know of?

Who corrupted who's future?

How old is this bartender? She could end up pregnant, guess that would be his bad luck again?

Have you been tested for STD's. Hate to say it, but, seriously, the bartender's I've know get AROUND

You keep mentioning that he's paying for the utilities... are you paying for everything else? Does he not know that he'd pay much for in child support for two children??

Your math is correct. The bartender is 45-46 years old. Yes, I was tested and am ok. I have thought they would make a pretty good couple. They have more in common beer, pot, bars, etc......He claims he doesn't want that life style. He just wants to know activities w/o kids and some freedom for the two of us will still be a possibility. We had some long talks about our future, just the two of us, a few weeks before I learned I was pregnant. Knowing those plans were changed was hard for me and even harder for him.

He was ordered to pay child support this summer when I filed for divorce. So yeah, he knows and he is sick of paying out the money. Don't blame him for that but I told him, him made his own bed.....

so do you have 2 kids that are in their teens and 1 that is a toddler

We have a 14 yr old and a 2 yr old. We talked about some of the things we wanted to do with the 14 yr old before she was too cool to do stuff w/us then how we would have more and more time to ourselves over the next few years and what we would do once she was off in college. We talked about travel, building a new home, hobbies, etc. For him, ALL of our plans were gone with a new baby. I said we could make new plans for our future that it didn't have to ruin everything. I hoped he could see that together we could make raising one child fun in our older years. He has two older kids and 2 grandkids (about the same age as our 2 yr old). That with older siblings and the two other little ones, we could have time together and that we could have fun with the whole family. He says now, he sees a brighter future with our little boy, but couldn't see that at all before and that was part of the reason for his depression.

I tried telling him I understood where he was coming from, even though I was younger. I feel that I was in the same 'place' in life as he was. It is hard for me to start over, I have the greater responsiblility in raising our son. But he doesn't see that.

Me and my son spent the night w/him last night. We went out to eat and it was a disaster. The boy is in his 'terrible 2' stage and is sick, so he was disruptive. My husband was very frustrated but took it better than I thought he would. He was disappointed b/c he thought it was just going to be the two of us.

I slept in our bed and it is still hard. All I could think about was the two of them having sex in that bed. Will having a new bed help? If sleeping in that room is one of the biggest problems I have and he is doing everything I ask him to do for a R, is it worth getting a divorce over or do I accept the pain and try to deal with it?

cg107 why don't you make it a condition of recovery that your H agrees to complete the FULL counseling course and whatever else the Harley's recommend? including attending weekends etc.

it will give you and your H the best chance to recover your M or build a new M together.

I would not just change the bed or the room but the whole house if its affordable.. perhaps another point to discuss and agree on. Frankly even moving a few doors down would probably help.. but a bit further away even better. If not affordable get rid of all bedroom suite and repaint the room.
The bed... the room... all of it is likely to trigger you over and over again.

As for taking responsibility.. ONLY your H is responsible for his cheating full stop. I know because I cheated and tried to use depression and mourning for our little boy to excuse myself. All crap. I did it .. I am responsible. Your H is for his cheating. Somewhere along the way he CHOSE to cheat.. really its that simple. While the reasons he claims may help in understanding what he was thinking at the time it does NOT excuse it.

If your H really wants to work on the M and family ... well the opportunity is there for him with counseling if that is what you want to do.

take care

Today is D-Day (decision day)! Not sure how I'm going to handle it. Please pray for me my MB friends!

Some of the conditions for R:

Intense IC for minimum of 1 yr.
MC for 1-2 years.
Full disclosure of affair (who knew and answers to any ?'s I have)
NC letter (read and approved and mailed by me)
NC - duh!
Absolutely no illegal or unprescribed drugs used - period!
Co-dependency counciling for me.
Every aspect of life an open book.
No bars w/o me period.
kids raised w/ Christian values (I can't force him to be a Christian but will demand Christian principles applied to our life)
His 2 page list of promises to kiss my butt for the rest of his life!

All this and more.
He would be on a 6 month to 1 yr probation if any specific agreement is broken, R is off.

Any feedback or ideas on terms would be greatly appreciated.

Well, that went well. I went over tonight to talk to my WH about the conditions that need to be met for me to go into a true R w/him. He listened w/o interrupting for the most part. Then it was his turn.....

He started by saying several of the things I had listed were the same as he felt. But then came the if and and buts.

He first started out with if you are going to make these changes in your life(IC for co-depend, hobbies, education, job, friends, not be silent about what I need anymore) who says I'm going to like the new you?!I said it was all to make me more independent and find my own happiness, to not rely on him, which was a complaint of his.

He then told me that you don't come to the table with a list of demands. That you have to be willing to negotiate with the other party if you want to be fair....FAIR? I said. I told him I tried for years to get him to negotiate with me (pot, pill use on his part, honesty, my needs and happiness)he wouldn't or would do whatever it took to pacify me for a time, then right back at it. I told him what wasn't fair was him taking a whore into my bed and screwing her! These 'demands' of mine as a result of HIS choices were way more fair than what I was given.

He then started on about me yelling and screaming at him (by this time, I was) and it needed to stop (In the love buster questionnaire we did a month ago, he stated that after this 2nd affair I yelled and screamed alot and it really bothered him)I told him that a year ago when I got the letter in the mail saying he was cheating on me, I yelled and screamed for him to stay away from the OW and he wouldn't do it. I could only assume I didn't yell loud enough then because he didn't listen and slept with her. Maybe by yelling even louder he might hear me now.

I told him it was past midnight and now Feb 1. That the ball was in his court. That there was no negotiation to the list of demands. That if he wanted to stay married everything would have to be followed to a tee. I then explained it to him like this...What would I have to do to get you to forgive me and want you to stay married to me? What would I have to do to lessen the image of me screwing another man in our bed in your mind? What would I have to do to show you that in time you could trust me and be happy with me, happier than ever before? Once you figure that out, double it....because you have cheated on me twice now.

So, I said goodbye and walked out the door without another word being said. Am I a [censored] or what? I don't think I handled it to well. I have so much anger inside me.

I forgot to say that he did say he felt strongly that if his dad hadn't died he wouldn't have made the decisions he made. That his world was turned upside down over the death. He feels that the accusations of an affair coming about 1 month after his dad's death made it hard for him to deal with it correctly. I do believe there is a bit of truth to that. I just don't know if it matters. He said it wasn't an excuse for his actions, that he owns them, but it is a circumstance that influenced his choices. Does that make any sense?

He's an addict.
Not promising recovery material.
Sorry ....

A couple of things he said last night I forgot to mention. Wondered if these were red flags.
1. He had already forgiven himself for the affair....? Is that suppose to make me feel better? Is that why I'm not feeling the remorse?

2. One of the main reasons he felt marriage counciling didn't work for this time....I didn't sit down with him and work out a divorce settlement before hand. I had changed the amount I wanted a few times and he said that was unfair, that what I wanted waivered on how mad I was at him.

He says I need to just decide to move forward with our marriage and I can't keep bringing the affair up and holding that against him.

He came over today without notice. I was busy and didn't even bother trying to talk about last night. When he left he said he wanted to talk but again, I procrastinated.

UUUGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!