A few weird, bad things happened yesterday and I've been in a funk since then.

To start, I did write down all of my questions of my wifes 5 A's, and I also wrote some heartfelt notes attached. I told her to take her time but most importantly, BE 100% HONEST...!!!! She still has the Q&A's.

So I've sorta been on pins and needles in anticipation.

As some may know, or have lived themselves, my wife met some of the OM in clubs. So clubs are a trigger, big time. We've gone to a few together, and one pub we frequent fairly often, since Dday. They are not the traditional 'meat clubs', though.

She also used to, before Dday, go with two or three of her girlfriends, to clubs, as a GNO, (not at all since Dday). She has sworn they only go for the music and they only dance with each other. (actually in her culture women do do that, not sure if she is telling the truth in general however).

So last friday she called and said she is going to the local pub with some other women for 'happy hour', (not the same g/fs she used to do GNO with). I was at work. I wasn't comfortable with it, but I said, 'ok'.

Then yesterday she called and said the same thing, she wanted to go to the local pub with those same ladies,...now I had a problem. She could not understand why I would not trust her...she was angry at me..!! She seemed to not understand how I felt uneasy. How she used to go to clubs without me, saying she was with friends, and she was meeting dudes. Clubs trigger me, hello???? She did not go. This morning she said she was sorry and understands why I feel like I do, but I gotta get over it and move forward, again. I have to trust her, she says...duhh, maybe one day.

Then I get home and on the fridge is a picture of a 'friend' of mine from childhood. He was holding one of our kids, (taken years and years ago). But this friend I do not talk to because I found out, prior to Dday, that my wife said he had asked her out to dinner, as 'friends' when she and I had some problems, a couple of years after she had her A's, (as it turned out, at the time I didn't know). This was years ago, but she told me a couple of years ago. For some reason one of my kids put the pic up, they said they didn't know who it was. My kids do know of the story above as I told them, I don't know why they did it, but she said she didn't know. I was freaken pissed though.

So I am very leery of this guy now, (some other odd things happened with him but my wife swares she never went out to dinner with him, nor did she ever do anything with him).

Also last night a friend of mine from work sent me some pics of a ceremony they had at the military base.....the unit is being deployed over seas. Some former members of the unit were there as well. So he sends me pics of the planes, flags, other stuff and then two guys, who I couldn't see that well. I asked him, 'who are the two dudes'? Blah, blah and Yadi Yada....!!! One of the guys is the first guy my wife had sex with, and the one who fessed up to having their affair...!!! (As you guys may know we were all in the same military unit, although we didn't know each other until after it was exposed).

So I am like, WTF..!!! Pics of two guys who know of her A's and one that actually scrwed her and then a pic of a former friend who I do not trust and tried to take my wife to dinner when we were down and out.....and the bar crap, all in ONE DAY.....UGGGGHHHH!!!!!

codtec, your marriage is headed for disaster if you don't get into some semblance of recovery. What you describe above isn't even close. It helps me understand why there have been multiple affairs and why there WILL BE MORE. In order for your marriage to recover, then the environment that led to the affairs has to be changed. That means no bars and no going out without each other. She wouldn't be doing things that trigger you like this if you used the POLICY OF JOINT AGREEMENT.

Secondly, she does not understand the concept of trust. If she goes to bars alone she should not be trusted. Her telling you that you should trust her to do this is like a drunk driver saying you should trust him to go drunk driving. Does that make any sense?

One of the worst things you can do is to GO ALONG with crap like this because it will cause you to fall out of love with her, codjec. If you are going along with any behavior that upsets you, it is harmful to your marriage.

The answer is to A) affair proof your marriage and B) institute MARRIAGE BUILDERS PRINCIPLES, most especially the POJA.

In other words, cod, it will take EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS to ever recover your marriage, and you haven't even started here. Your wife is still playing the same game of chicken with your marriage.

Yea 'ML', I know and I totally get the drunk driving analogy, thanks.

I just don't understand why she isn't able to 'get it'. I mean she used to club A LOT, without me, back in the day. And yes, even up to right before Dday, she would do the GNO with her friends, be dressed up hot, but swearing its not to pick up men. That was before Dday, now I would never trust her to do that again. Even doing the local pub happy hour thing is causing distress within me. I did read the PTSD and I feel I am having those things...I fell heart palpitations too when I trigger or get in a mood.

I have not read the POJA in full, I will.

cod, it has to be more than just POJA, you are not going to make it by doing bits and pieces of this program. Your marriage is on life support, friend. You need to be in the hospital, not in the do it yourself clinic.

Please go to a Marriage Builders weekend or start counseling with Steve Harley. You can't pencil whip this program and get away with it. You need to do this in a comprehensive way.

What MB books do you have? Have you worked this program at all?

The biggest problem, in addition to not using MB concepts, is that your W has not bought into all this. I suspect there is alot more that you don't know about. Serial cheaters can change, but they can only change if they take extraordinary precautions. She hasn't done that. She is still playing chicken every day and then complaining when you try to limit her.

She needs to be SOLD on this program or she is not going to get on board. Steve Harley is good at that, this is why I suggested you call him. But you can't expect your marriage to mend on itself without doing anything. This will take a massive overhaul to recover. That won't happen by magic.

We have no MB books, although I do have them on my Amazon.com account, ready to ship, I just have not ordered.

I burned the 'Five love languages' on CD and she has not even listened to that.

I have not worked the MB program at all, we are just winging it, I suppose. My wife is fully of the mindset that it happened many years ago, she hasn't done anything since then, and won't in the future....that's her take on it. I am living in the past and unless I move to the future we will not be a happy couple.

I feel all of this is being 'swept under the rug' and I am being led to believe my feelings are not healthy, nor normal. That I basically caused her to do what she did, (although she will admit it was the wrong thing to do).

She said she is still here in our marriage, so I should be happy with that. She isn't being mean about it, but thats my take on where we are.

cod, do you believe in the concept of unconditional love? Does your wife believe that there are ANY circumstances under which you would divorce her?

She probably doesn't think I would divorce no matter what I guess. I mean she slept multiple times with 5 guys, and I've accepted it...where would I draw the line if not then?

I must be very insecure and have some low self esteem.

Cod, you have lowered the bar so low that your wife has lived down to your expectations. You are a huge part of the problem here. She believes that just staying with you is sufficient compensation because you have led her to believe this. I think a better tactic is to lead your marriage to recovery. But first, you have to understand how to do it yourself..

Stick to the MB program, cod. It is the best one by far. Go check out the books here on MB and see if they are cheaper. Dr Harley sells his books dirt cheap here. The ones I would get are:

Surviving an Affair
Five Steps to Romantic Love workbook

But just reading the books and trying to implement the concepts isn't going to recover a marriage with this kind of damage, IMO. I would look into phone coaching with Steve Harley or a MB weekend.

Dr Harley REALLY, REALLY meant it when he said this:

Requirements for Recovery

WW: Five affairs and you don't trust me blindly?

Tell WW that trust can come back from zero but will never go back to one hundred percent. Specially after five, FIVE, OM!

Tell WW that enough trust will never come back for her to go to bars without you and to have any male friends.

Those are the book I've locked into, yes. I will compare prices. And yes I've set the bar low, as I've said, zero self esteem and insecurity issues, to say the least.

I will tell her that today 'TR'.

I suspect you are right. In other words, you have lowered the bar and she is living up to that expectation. Unfortunately, the bar has been lowered so low that you are likely facing more affairs. She has no motivation whatsoever to change.

Did you ever read Dr HArleys articles about unwarranted forgiveness and the dangers of unconditional love?

Can't We Just Forgive and Forget?

another good article on the dangers of unconditional love: When to Call it Quits

You SHOULD BE INSECURE because you have allowed yourself to be placed in danger. You have not protected yourself from danger. There is not much to "esteem" about that. But those are not acceptable excuses for doing nothing, cod.

codtej,

Re: the books--- if money is an issue or the amount of time necessary for shipping--- check with your local library.

My library carries most of these books! Although I can almost guarantee you, you're gonna want your own copies to refer back to when needed.

And I agree with contacting the coaching center. You NEED a PLAN!

I learned that in IC, and actually I was feeling so good about myself and I was strong when she first got back from vacation, (not sure if you remember that story?).

Then I slowly fell back into my old self. I know its my fault, no excuses here, that is on me I know.

ok, but that misses the point. NO ONE should be trusted to go hang out in bars and have opposite sex friendships because that is untrustworthy behavior.

Would you trust me to go drunk driving?

I told her about the club deal....she still doesn't get it nor understands why I don't trust her. She says because she did those things years ago its ok now. She has no desire to screw other men, any longer. Our marriage was in a bad place then, now, except for this little problem we are having about her A's, we are pretty much ok.

So I should trust her, she insists. Then she said she would only go if it were a friends birthday, or something like that. So I said, you are saying you want to go, pretty much when you want. She said, no, not everday, just sometimes. That's like what she said about sex with the OM's....'we didn't do it everyday'....

I kept on with how I feel and why I feel so, (yes believe it or not I have to do this or she won't understand it seems). So then she says fine she will only go out with me to clubs.

I now think she will go out and just not tell me....or I think she may do so.

cod, you have a wife that is not interested in recovery, which means your future will be more of the same. Have you read Dr Harleys article about When to call it quits? He describes a similar situation where a spouse refused to do the things necessary to effect a happy marriage. Her H made her miserable. Dr Harley gave her a very specific plan that included a separation. This ended up being the very thing that saved their marriage.

let me see if I can find the link.

Check this out, I think it was a brilliant plan:

When to Call It Quits - Part 1