Hi all, I'm new to MB so I guess I should give you a little background (I tend to get overly wordy so I'm trying to keep it to bare bones). FWH had an EA that started end 3/09, turned into PA 4/09. He moved out, after telling me he "loved me but was no longer in love with me and wanted to try and sort out how he felt" on 20/11/09. We started having once a week "date nights" and MC on 14/12/09. D-Day was 10/01/10, NC on 11/01/10. D-Day was before I had found MB, and I did pretty much everything 'wrong' when I found out, but it worked out anyway. He moved back home officially on 25/01/10 and things have been going ok, he's working on H&O and being transparent for me, and I'm working on my big LB's, Demands and Lack of Affection.

Yesterday was a really rough day for me, my 17 1/2 year old dog, that I watched being born and who was my first baby, had to be put to sleep, so I was very emotional and over-wrought. He was so supportive and strong for me, and I appreciated it so much. With working on his H&O, we have an agreement that he will be truthful with me regarding any details of the A, and I will consider my questions and not ask something I don't want to know. Unfortunately, in my haze last night, just before we went to bed, I opened my mouth and asked a question I knew I didn't want the answer to at that time, and he, of course, answered it honestly.

Bit more background, my FWH works hard, he's a contractor, so no work means no pay, so he rarely takes time off. The one time of year he is forced to is the Christmas break, where the entire office closes for a week, so he had a week off over Christmas. Of course he was not living at home last year, but I had asked him if our kids would be seeing him over the break (DD7 and DD4, who worship their Daddy). He'd told me he would see them, and did see them on Christmas Day and for a little while on Boxing Day when he picked us up from my Sister's place to take us home (we see my Dad/Step-Mum that day and he said he "couldn't face my Dad" so chose not to attend, and he took the car when he moved out so I'd taken it with me on Christmas night while he rode his bike back to the place he was staying near my Sis's place, then he came on Boxing Day to pick us up, took us home then went back to his place.) That was the last I heard of him for almost a week. No phone calls, no visits, not even an SMS. I was really hurt for both myself and my girl's sake. They love their Daddy so much and just want to be with him as much as possible, and they didn't see him almost his entire only week off all year.

So, somehow the subject of that week came up while we were talking before bed last night, and without thinking, the words "did you see HER that week?" came out of my mouth. I KNEW it was a mistake and I didn't want to know just then, but he, of course, answered me that he'd seen her once. I proceeded to try and sleep, but I was curled up with my back to him, crying. He started rubbing my back and telling me he was sorry, but all I did was snap at him that sorry didn't make it better. I knew I'd only get worse if I stayed in the room, so I explained to him that I had to get out of there and went and sat outside for awhile. I was so angry and hurt, I just couldn't go back in there, so I ended up sleeping in the spare room.

He keeps his work clothes for the morning in there, so he doesn't wake me up getting ready for work at 5.00am, so he obviously came in while I was asleep. I woke up just before 6am and he'd left me a note and my glasses (which I'd left in our bedroom) apologising again and being very romantic, but I'm still so hurt and angry that this THING was more important to him than his wife and children, I can't seem to see past that right now and I'm positive I'm still not capable of having a calm, rational discussion with him about it. I can't just pretend it didn't happen, I can't be calm about it. I'm at a complete loss as to how to cope with this. I've asked for other details of the A, and while hurt, have accepted them pretty calmly on the whole. Ashamed to admit there has been some LB'ing with some DJ's. I'm trying to keep them under control, but the OW makes me physically sick. Not only is she obviously ugly on the inside for going into this knowing well he was married with 2 children, but she's also the complete opposite of me in every way, with extremely unhealthy interests and kinks that make me want to throw up.

I'm hoping you all can give me some suggestions or point me to some coping mechanisms so I can get this cat under control, if not back in the bag, and continue moving forward and concentrating on the important things, my FWH and children. I know I really have only given you the bare basics of information, I'm trying not to turn this into a journal entry, even now it's huge, so if further explanation is needed, am happy to give it.

Hi Dazed. Welcome to MB.

I'm not surprised that you are still reeling from this affair. As I understand it, your H moved out without telling you about the affair in November. He started dating you while still seeing OW. You must have had at least a couple of sessions of MC before you found out about the affair in January. That was a particularly dishonest way for your H to behave.

How did you find out? Did his MC encourage him to confess?

So, you found out about the affair, and he moved home two weeks after D Day. He has been home only since Monday, so you are very early on in recovery.

I'm curious about how you know so much about the Harley concepts. You mention O&H and transparency, and LBs. Did your MC teach you these, or refer you to the Harley materials?

How was NC achieved? Did your H write a letter, and did you send it? Has there been any attempt at contact since it was sent?

This affair was about nine months long, from what I can tell. That is time enough for his feelings to become deep. Your H must have been very deeply involved to have moved out and left you and two young children. Why and how did he and OW break up?

I think you might be posting in this forum prematurely. I suspect that there might be a few loose ends to tie up around this affair, such as notifying OWH if there is one. How did your H meet her? If through work, then this must be dealt with. If you live in the same neighbourhood, then so must that.

You will get more responses if you ask the moderators to move this thread to the forum Surviving an Affair. Click notify to do that.

Moved at thread starters request.

Best of Luck.

There are a few things that bother me about this. The main one is that your H was willing to go to MC with you and deceive you back into a relationship with him. He did not even confess as a result of the MC's influence; you found out about the affair via Facebook. I don't think much of your H's honesty and I would be surprised if this relationship has been completely terminated.

Does your MC know of the affair now? If he/she is now aware that deceit took place in the very consulting room, he should be treating you (not him) as someone who is at risk from a class-A user. Is he working to protect you now?

Do not take comfort from the fact that your H broke off the affair right away and has shown no signs of withdrawal. For my H, those exact things meant that the affair had not been terminated, there was daily contact via work (eventually leading to sexual contact again) and so there was no need for withdrawal. OW simply upped the ego-stroking tactics, I went into reclaiming what was mine mode, and my H basked in the love of two of us fighting for him, rather than having one who was fighting (OW) and one who was unaware (me).

I probably have more I could say but I cannot stay now. I'm sure others will make more suggestions.

You've given me alot to think about and sort through Sugarcane.

As far the MC goes, we've still only had two sessions with him, the first one was about 2 weeks before D-Day and, not surprisingly, I walked out feeling like it was useless (I obviously know now that it couldn't have been anything but, with WH's deceit and lies still going on, he was totally closed to what we were really there for). Second session WH told MC about the A and it was a very emotional session, but I don't think we'll be going back there. Both myself and WH just can't really seem to connect to the MC in any real way. He's a very nice, intellectual man and he has a real tendency to say things we don't understand and then not really explain when we ask questions or for clarification. He sent us home from that session with "homework", and I honestly couldn't tell you what it actually is, because he didn't make any real sense to me. He was quite brutal in his words to WH, which, while not underserved, actually got WH angry for the first time in about 5 years (WH NEVER loses his temper), which I don't think is a good environment to help us work through anything. WH defensive and both of us confused by what he's trying to convey. He's a govt sponsered MC so our main problem is that we can't afford to go elsewhere atm.

Trust for us is obviously a thing of the past right now, but I do feel fairly confident that it's over, though I'm doing what I can to ensure that. I exposed to almost everyone as soon as I found out, all our friends and his family. Only people I haven't told are my parents, because I don't want them to know. WH himself told the workmate he'd been living with the morning after D-Day, and she was very angry with him, although she hasn't told anyone else at work, there are a couple of people I'm considering telling, but I'm unsure if that's a good idea or not.

He has appeared to be truly remorseful this week, in my eyes at least. He can't say sorry enough, he's constantly asking what he can do for me to help me feel more secure, he's taken every bit of my anger and bitterness, held and supported me through a few panic attacks, tried to make sure I knew where he was every minute at work and called me on his way home so I knew he was alone, and spent every minute he wasn't at work with me (and those things were on his own initiative, I didn't ask for them). I told him he could keep his mobile number, as long as I had access to the bills, but he's chosen to change numbers anyway, and still make sure I have access to the bills (the bills were emailed to his address so I rarely saw them, they're now being sent to my email address). Given me all passwords to his accounts, and he's given me access to his work account, although it'd be easy enough for him to have a pre-paid mobile, and delete emails before I see them or get a new free account, I don't think he has.

My H tends towards 'the path of least resistance'. He allowed himself to fall into the A, and it would seem, he stayed in it because it was easier to continue to hurt me without me knowing, than it was to break it off and hurt her. Alot of their contact was on her initiative, now of course he's going to tell me that, it makes him look less 'bad', but what I know of his basic personality leads me to believe he's being fairly truthful on that. I KNEW, for months before I found out, that he was having an A. Not in a "I have proof" kind of way, but my instincts, my gut, were screaming it at me. I asked him over and over and I knew deep down he was lying to me. Why I didn't snoop, I don't know. I guess I was in denial and if I didn't find proof, it wouldn't be true, but I did know, so I'm going to go with my instincts on this, because they've proved more trustworthy than H is, and they tell me it IS over, but that doesn't mean I'm going to blindly follow them, I'm just not sure what more I can do to make sure of that, when he's at work from 7am to 5pm every day, plus time on the train. Any suggestions anyone has would be greatly accepted.

Oh wow, I've typed another novel, sorry about that! It's really good having someone asking me these things Sugarcane, because it's making me think and not just blindly accept what he's saying and doing. I guess it seems strange that after all he's put me through, all his actions and lies and deceit, I can still seem to have faith in him. He's said he wanted to tell me so many times, but just didn't know how to say it. In his words "after I've said No, No, No so many times, how do I say I've been lying to you", so basically he didn't tell me because he was so ashamed (as he should be!). His head was a mess, I know that much, and he really wasn't thinking at all, about the consequences of his actions, about what he was risking, about anything. One thing I've never doubted for a second is how much he loves his children, and what they mean to him. The fact that his OW was a 17 year old s**t who not only didn't want children, but actively disliked them, strangely makes me feel more reassured that it wasn't as meaningful or important to him as I feared it was. D-Day was a huge shock of reality into his little dream world, and for the first time, I think it all came home to him what he was actually risking. Since then he's spoken alot of not understanding why he did it, or why it went on so long. All he can say is that he was a stupid idiot who made stupid choices (all true). Both our communication skills were pretty useless, and stupid as it is, out of fear of losing me if he told me how he felt, he went elsewhere. The complete craziness of that thought process astounds me, but it makes twisted sense based on the H I knew before all of this. I've told him myself that I'm well aware I put the door in front of him. Nothing forced him to open that door except his own lousy decisions, but I did put the door there in the first place with my own bad decisions.

Dazed,

It's unfortunate that we are on opposite sides of the world (I'm in London) and we post at opposite ends of the day. It makes it hard to maintain a dialogue.

I'm in a rush now, but the ONE group you have not exposed to and need to is OW parents.

She's 17?? Did I hear you correctly?

My daughter is 20. She is away at university. I am 5'2" and she is about 5"7", and if I heard that she was interfering in another woman's marriage I would drag her out of one of her lectures and horsewhip her in front of her friends.

Expose to this child's parents - sensitively, of course.

Novel's are not bad.

Not enough paragraphs is bad.

We don't care about gramatical placement of paragraphs. The extra spacing makes it easier to read.

As to MC. So your WH gets yeld at. He danced now he has to pay the band. As to not understanding MC tell him he makes no sense, please explain. Then complain to your health provider an ask for another MC.

I am sorry you have need to be here Dazed, but having said that you will find the help and support here invaluable.

You sound like you are both heading in the right direction but and this is a big but, your H should not be considered a FWH yet. He has much to do to earn the F so please keep your eyes wide open. Pay little attention to what he says and much more to what he does.

I agree with SugarCane. Exposure is such a valuable tool and you haven't used it as best you can. The OW is a child and hopefully she has decent parents who will be able to talk some sense in to her and will be able to teach her that self respect means never sleeping with a married man. Expose to her parents and then hopefully you'll have two sets of eyes on them to check for any breaks in NC.

As an aside, this had me worried....

Emphasis mine.

I am concerned that your H was living with another woman while separated from you? What did you think of this? What has your H said of this relationship?

Keep reading here. There is much to learn and you will be so thankful when you implement the things you learn into your M. I wish you well in your recovery but please keep yout guard up for now. It's very early days.

Very quick for now as I'm about to head off to bed. WH was staying with his female workmate and her fiance, I would have had huge issues if he'd been staying with a single female workmate. Her fiance living there is no guarantee, but then, nothing is, is it?

I'd like to expose to OW's parents, but I'm concerned firstly about how I could get in touch with them. I know her name and what general area she lives in, but not anything more specific than that, and I doubt WH will give me more info at this time. Not to mention the fact that these are parents who have allowed their under 18 child to get 18 body piercings so far, not to mention they knew about my WH (not that he was married, he doesn't THINK) but at least that he was significantly older than her. She's only 10 years older than my eldest daughter! If she tries to bring home an almost 30 year old man at 17, I'll be locking her in her room until SHE'S 30!!!

Any thoughts on this? Any suggestions for getting contact details for them? I'm wracking my brains and haven't gotten anywhere yet.

Do you know the surname?

Do you have an online electoral register in Australia?

Online phone book?

Just online? I only had OW's first and surname - and she lives in Belgium. I googled and within 5 minutes found her.

Her first and surname are very common for her country of origin. There were hundreds of women living in expat communities all over the world with her names, including a few in Belgium. However, only one of them was connected to my H's job, about which there was a document online. It had to be her (and was). Try it.

Later on, I found her in the Belgian online phone book.

Dazed, what is the age of consent in OZ? Is there any chance this is statutory rape? Can your H be sure that the girl is 17?

For you, I suggest checking his computer for teen pics. It is a very nasty thing to suggest, but he might have an interest in young girls.

I'll give her surname a look in the online phone book for sure, but yeah, it's a fairly common last name, and since I don't know her parents names or the exact suburb they live in, I'm not sure how successful I'll be. She's under 18, so she's not currently old enough to vote, although she turns 18 near the end of February, she's not required to register and that's still a month away. If I have no luck, I can look then. My nephew is a year older than her (and doesn't that make me sick also) and grew up/went to school in the same area, so if I got desperate I could possibly enlist his help, since she goes to the gym at the University my nephew attends, but I'd really rather not drag the poor kid into it if I can help it.

I really should go to bed now, but wanted to thank everyone for their help and support, it really means alot to me atm.

Sleep well, and I hope there will be an abundance of advice when you come back.

I found OW's daughter's name on a very old web page (about 8 years old) that her H had created about his family and made visible to the world.

I googled the daughter, and to my horror found that she was at a British university. The reason for my H once visiting a very odd British town fell into place; he visited OW when she was in England seeing her daughter.

The document from the university was a discussion group thread. The girl was studying a particular subject and the students set up a thread to discuss their assignments, and they left it visible.

This girl might have an open FB page, or might even be mentioned in the local paper for starring in a school production. You just don't know what you'll find: google!

Have a good nights sleep Dazed. It's so good if you can. I know that I barely slept for weeks after D-Day and looking back I really do not know how I continued to function.

Going back to your first post, you mentioned asking questions and then being unprepared for the horrible answers.

It hurts so bad doesn't it? The first few hours after I found out it was impossible for any answers to hurt me more than I was already hurting so I asked away.

After that it was more difficult because you get yourself on what you think is an even keel and then a question pops into your head so you ask it and before you know it you're back to square one, feeling like the person you love most has stamped on you. It's horrible and I so feel for all BS's going through this process.

A process is what it is though. Most of us BS's need to know everything. I certainly did, so to prevent me going off the deep end, I would shelve the questions that popped into my head. I would then ask my H if he would be willing to discuss the A at say 7.30 that night or the night after.

I would then work out what questions I wanted to ask and then would work through his potential answers in my head. I would take myself to the worst possible answers and visualise my H giving me those answers.

More often than not when we got to the time when I could ask the questions, his answers to my questions were not half as bad as the ones I had worked through in my head so I could hear him wothout LB'ing. The lack of LB'ing on my part encouraged him to be O&H with me and we were able to work through this part of R relatively quickly.

I'm not saying this would work for everyone as I took myself to some pretty bad places that I needn't really have gone to but it did help me keep mine and my FWH's dialogue safe and that most definitely helped our recovery.

You still both have a lot to work through and your H certainly has a problem with O&H so this is something that you both need to do some serious work on. Him being safe to be O&H is the work you can do from your side but he needs to understand how important O&H is in the recovery process because it is so important that everything comes out now or it will certainly bite you on the bum later.

Thank you Sere. Sleep was def a rare commodity for me for the week after D-Day, thankfully since then it hasn't been too bad. I'm still staying up too late and having alot of nightmares, but at least I'm getting some. My girls go back to school tomorrow after their Summer break, so I've been working on everything I can think of to get some more sleep for myself, as they need me to be at least semi mentally awake, not to mention having to face the ravenous horde of school Mum's. Some of them are fantastic and have been amazingly supportive of me through both the seperation and then the D-Day fallout, but some of them tend toward the horrid gossip monger stereotype and I know it's going to be hard to face them with my head held high, so I'm trying to prep myself for that also.

Having MB to come to and speak to other ppl who know exactly what I'm going through, has been such a blessing. It really helps reaffirm my belief that I have nothing to be ashamed of, that I didn't do anything wrong THEY did, and that I'm not an idiot or a fool for being willing to take WH back and work on our marriage.

Your advice for question asking seems really good. I'm already having those thoughts in my head, and have found that asking questions when I'm calm and rational has led to answers that were nowhere near as bad as I expected them to be. He's said quite a few times that he hates answering because he KNOWS they hurt me, but he knows he has to answer because right now, its all about what I need, and if I'm asking, I obviously feel the need to know. He definately seems to be trying with his H&O. He's never been good at talking about how he feels, but this morning he talked about his regrets, that it ever happened, that he can never take it back, that he caused me so much pain, almost lost the most important things in his life. It felt good to hear him talking that way, just the fact that he was being open with me in a way he hasn't in a very long time. Seeing him in pain is hard, but seeing that he seems to really 'get it' helps so much. One day at a time for now, but I have hope.

Sugar, the first thing I did when I found her friended on his FB, was start googling! I then found her MS, and used her 'internet nickname' from that to also google, and found another online profile of hers from that. Her real name hasn't brought up anything except her MS page. WH deleted his FB page the day after D-Day (I check every day to make sure it's gone and also look under all his online aliases), and she deleted hers a few days later. I have been checking, but can't find anything else.

I also checked his computer right after he moved out, since I had that gut feeling, but found absolutely nothing. I didn't really expect to, our computers and screens are literally right next to each other (about an inch between them) on the same desk, and apart from in the morning before work, I was always right next to him when he was on the comp at home.

I also did research on our age of consent laws when I found out her age, as I was under the impression my state had laws regarding difference in age if someone was under 18 but over 16 (our age of consent), however those laws have either been removed or I was under a mistaken impression in the first place, as there was absolutely nothing beyond the 16 year old requirement, which she met, unless the older person is in a 'position of power' meaning boss, teacher, something along those lines, which I couldn't find any arguement to make that he was.

I shall keep googling, I still check her MS and other online profile every day to snoop and see if there's any obvious changes that may signal breaking of N/C, unfortunately I was stupid enough to let it out that I knew about them, so they're friends locked now, and somehow I suspect she wouldn't accept me as a friend. I suspect she hates me rather alot about now. I say good, the feeling's mutual

I don't think WH even thought about her age really. Just that she represented fun and freedom and no responsibility at a time when he was under huge amounts of stress and expectations and responsibility at home and work. She represented everything he was missing out on, and I think she was at the right place at the right time and saw the vulnerability and jumped on it. She could have been 27 or 57 rather than 17, if she'd had the same things to offer, he still would have done it, it was about what she was (single, no kids, irresponsible) more than who she was, if you get what I mean?

Due to the total nuclear exposure I did, everyone, and I mean everyone we knew, knew of my FWH's A. I remember all too well fearing leaving the house, or seeing friends and family. I hated the thought of people feeling sorry for me, or gossiping about my M.

I did go out though and I carried my life on as best I could. I held my head high even when I felt I was crumbling inside. I remained dignified at all times and I never ever passed comment to anyone about OW. When people asked me how I was, I answered honestly but kept my answers strictly aboout me and my FWH. She was nothing to me, and certainly nothing worth talking about. If anyone asked me what I thought of her, I told them that her life was her business and I was focused only on mine amd my FWH's lives.

I can't tell you how many people have subsequently told me how amazing I was during that time and how much admiration they had for me. It was certainly a big boost for my confidence when people started telling me how wonderfully well I'd handled everything. Little did they know how many tears I shed and how hard I had found it all.


You have nothing to be ashamed of Dazed. Your H is responsible for the A. Not you. You have to own your share of the problems in the M and you have to work to fix your part but your H has to own the A 100%.

It is not weak to want to fix a M, especially when there are children involved. It takes much strength to rebuild a broken M and commit to making the M better than ever before. Set the bar high though. Do not accept mediocre. I told my FWH that he could work with me to build the best M in the world or leave. There was absolutely no way I was going to go through the pain of betrayal and go back to the pre A marriage. Read everything you can about MB'ing and work out what you want your M to look like. Discuss this with your H and then together come up with a plan to get you there.

Your M wont recover overnight but hopefully you will see improvements. I know for my FWH and I, just the process of working on a plan together and us visualising a wonderful M was exciting for us, and those moments of excitement and optimism helped offset the dark and painful times of early recovery.


Good to read you have hope. Hope is essential. My FWH wasn't big on sharing his feelings either, but he is getting better. I hope your H understands how important it is that ALL the details you need come out now. It's terribly painful to find out at some later date that the WS has witheld information or has outright lied. I know from my own painful experience how bad trickle truth can be. Keeping your communication about the A safe certainly helps but most of all your H needs to really understand that you need what you need and he MUST be totally honest with you.

Have a good day.

Bad day today. I made a joke last night that with the kids back at school today, I'd have my own little nervous breakdown, since I've had the kids pretty much 24/7 for the past two months of summer break and have been 'holding it together' for their sake. I thought I was kidding, turns out, I wasn't.

WH has been fantastic today, saying really important things I need to hear, and went on his own initiative and bought HN,HN (bookshop didn't stock SaA or Lovebusters, which we'd planned on getting, so will order those online), and sadly, all I can seem to do is cry and shake and watch the movies in my brain that seem to be on a loop, going over and over again.

I think I needed this, no matter how painful it is. I wasn't sure what more I wanted to know about the A, feeling that some things I just didn't want/need to ask, but this has shown me that I need to ask for EVERYTHING. Better to get it done in one brutal move, than this slow poison I've been doing.

It's also helping me clarify what I need from him. He keeps saying "whatever you need, whatever you want", so I've figured out what that is, and how he responds to that will let me know where we really stand.

Childish perhaps, but he also called OW a floozy today, it made me giggle and feel a little better. I don't care if it was only said to reassure me, it worked a bit.

Hopefully tonight we will sit down once DD's are in bed and we'll 'amputate the infected limb', and once I really know EVERYTHING, I can truly start to put today and those mental video's behind me.

Thank you so much Sere, it was you that has helped me realise that 'protecting myself' is only hurting myself in the end, it won't actually stop the questions in my head, only full disclosure can ever hope to do that.

It's important to remember that it is totally normal for your emotions to be all over the place for quite a while yet. I had regular meltdowns right through to our D-Day antiversary. Be kind to yourself and accept the bad days as part of the healing process. The first few months follow a very similar pattern for all BS's; shock, denial, depression, anger, accetpance - something along those lines.

What helped me was knowing that it wasn't the end of the world when I was having a bad day, it was still a part of my journey towards recovery. I also never got carried away with the good days. I remember when I first read of the 2-5 years to recover a M, and thinking I couldn't possibly wait that long to put the pain of infidelity behind us. I somehow thought that we could be different or we could rush the process. Quite simply, you just can't rush this. You can follow the narrow MB path and do it well but you can't do it quickly.

Having realistic expectations helped me in early recovery, so don't be too hard on yourself when you're feeling low. Come here, vent, and you'll get lots of support which will lift you back up.


Recovery is not for wimps. It's tough. It's good that your H is being supportive of you, and so he should be. Good job on buying the book. Order the others online as soon as you can. We read SaA, LB'res, and HNHN - in that order.


Do this at your pace Dazed. The consensus of opinion is that it is best to get it ALL out as soon as possible and I agree, but make sure that whatever questions you ask, you are prepared (as best you can be) for the answers, because the answers you get are painful. Keep the discussion calm and if you feel it is getting too much, then take a break. Take a walk, wash your face, anything until you've calmed yourself, and then go back to the discussion when you're ready.


The truth will set you free. Hear it, talk through it and process it. Don't make any BIG decisions yet. It's early days and the general advice is that you shouldn't make major decisions for about six months after D-Day.


I know what you mean. I liked it too. The fog may be lifting but keep your eyes open.


One other bit of advice which is common sense really. No alcohol during these talks. It's tempting because the discussion you will be having is not going to be pleasant and you might feel tempted to have a drink just to take the edges off. Bad idea.


No problem Dazed. Keep coming back. It's a wonderful place full of wonderful and wise people. I have learned SO much, and still learn every day that I read here. Take care. I'll be thinking of you.