OM is divorced.

What do divorced men want to do?

Have a GF for SF.

OM is banging your WW.

Why does WW all of a sudden need to go out alone clubbing?

Get alone time to bang the OM.

WW needs to unwind, but how come she can't unwind with you at a club?

Thank you for all of your responses.

I know that I suspect a potential PA, but I have no true evidence. I do KNOW it was an EA. I am going to work with that since it the same in concept.

There was no NC letter, because it was all through texts, and I guess because I called him. Right now she does not want to talk and I am not going to force the issue. If she wants this to work, she will come to me in time.

I do want to work on me. I spent ALL day Saturday with MY friends (guys. I have my own identity, I know who I am, I like me, and I will do the things that I want to do...respectful of my wife.

I ended up only spending 1 day out of the house. She said in her post she was trying to create the illusion of space, but really wanted me near. I never truly left, but there is still a suitcase at my brother's house.

I believe she is now in withdrawal, and it does hurt to watch. Kinda gives a new perspective on things for me since last time it was my A. I understand how it can happen, and I understand where she is. All I can do is be here for her.

Problem is, her anxiety about things comes out in anger. I want no part of that. SO I will wait. My choice.

LA,
"Your job is to arrange to have the most UA time, without interruptions possible...to do more acts of service to ensure it, time to listen, one on one, not time to fix her stuff. For you to know schedules week by week, when her stress spikes higher...to come up with RC time to play again together, make it top priority...and to know your own choices. See where you are lying my omission from fear (we all do it) and come clean."

How do I do that when she is in withdrawal and angry. When she is going into her black hole. I want to protect her from that. IS there a way to YANK HER OUT?

Thanks again for all the responses, I look forward to more.

Jim

Bump

jim,

The last time infidelity hit your relationship, did you use the Harley methods to address the state of the relationship?

I think there might be a danger this time of allowing your wife's withdrawal to pass, then trying to get along better but not using Dr Harley. I think that you need to focus on the difficulties in the marriage - especially your wife's unresolved resentment over YOUR infidelity 4 years ago, the age-gap and the challenge of a disabled child and a baby.

Your wife sounds as if she has begun to feel resentful of spending hours keeping appointments with specialists. Are you able to spend undivided, and recreational, time together? She needs to have enjoyable time with and without her children, but not out at nights without you. You need to find a way for you both to go out at night, if that is the kind of recreational activity she likes. You need to take the lead in making your evenings at home, once the children are in bed, romantic and focused on each other.

You suggested that you would contact the coaching centre. Have you done so? I think that expert help would give you the best chance of recovery. As I know from experience, recovery after an affair is about much more than simply stopping the affair.

You do have to give withdrawal time to pass. Dr Harley suggests that you will have a difficult time meeting her ENs while she feel depressed about the loss of this man. You must meet the ENs that she will allow you to meet, while being patient.

Do you know what her ENs are? Does she know yours? They are both likely to have changed in recent months.

I have listed out My EN's to her, but she has yet to do the same for me. We are seeking counseling, but not through the Harley's, there are affordability issues.

I intend to read and follow how to fall in love and stay in love this time. This was the failure of part II of our lives together.

The same types of things crept in our relationship the 2nd time, but made her more the wanderer (I still think only in the emotional sense, and that is all she will admit too. Based on what I have witnessed myself I believe it.)

The "date" nights are hard to do away from the home with three small children and one being special needs. It is hard to find a sitter we trust. My MIL does not want to do it, my family lives too far away.

We are trying to have more UA time after the kids are in bed.

I think her sharing the texts with me the other night, and then having what happened happen, turned a corner for us. But I am still unsure. Wouldn't it be natural for her to latch on to me a little since i am once again all she has?

My choice in that is to trust her feelings and how they make me feel.

She does not want to talk about it yet.

Well, that's not what Dr Harley says about withdrawal. He describes moping around, feeling depressed and not wanting anything to do with the BS. He specifically advises the BS not to push things until withdrawal is over. Try to meet her ENs, but do not expect anything back.

I don't have time just now to find an article, but I'll try later.

Have you read all the articles under the Infidelity section here?

Please don't trust "feelings". Follow the program and snoop as much as you can.

I have an 11 y/o special needs child. He is completely dependent on us for everything, wears diapers and has a seizure disorder. When he is not well we have trouble getting out on dates but otherwise we really try to make time. When DS was about 3 we realized we had to accept the respite care we were offered through the state. The respite worker became like a member of the family and was willing to watch our DD as well.

We are on our 3rd caregiver now. He has been with us since DS was about 8. My sanity would be non existant if I did not have help. Our families have been no help either, so it CAN be done.

Have you looked into respite care through your state?

FF, She is not so challenged as to require that at this point.

And SugarCane, to the other point, you're right. She wants nothing to do with me right now.

She is in withdrawal and it is only now that the true nature of the relationship is being exposed. From what I had been told by her previously, no withdrawal would have been necessary.

Kinda makes me angry. She's the one that gets to treat ME like crap, and I am not the one that did anything.

Kinda sucks to be on the other side. My empathy for what I put her through once grows.

I still love her anyway. I will fill what EN's I can.

jim, I don't know whether you can be sure of this. Her description the other day of being worn out with - not so much caring for the child, but shuttling around and awaiting in queues for an entire day, to see specialists, worried me.

I would guess that in the last few months, probably since the new baby came along, she has, as you say, grown away from you, and she has not been talking to you. Indeed, she has found someone else to talk to, although probably not about the children. Their conversations probably consisted at least in part of her saying how unnoticed she was by you, and his saying "really? An incredible woman like you?"

I know, but he WAS talking to her and probably filling an EN for attention.

Would you know if she were feeling desperate? Have you specifically asked her? Why don't you do so now? And as to the state help that faithful mentions, why wouldn't she want someone to come and sit with the kids for a few hours each week while she got a break? What mother of 3 little ones WOULDN'T want this?

Stop assuming and, even if she will not talk at all to you now, look into support available in your state. I should think that, if you present her with a well-researched set of options in a few days, this will make a difference to how she is feeling.

I am telling you this based on how I imagine I would feel if I were 27 and had her childcare issues, and faithful follower is telling you her experiences with her special needs child. Don't dismiss our perspectives without more thought and action, please. This is not about you; this is about your wife.

You DID do something, 4 years ago, to a very young woman with whom you had a child. You are much older than she, you had been through two marriages and a third relationship in which children were produced but that had broken down, and still you showed no maturity in the way you treated your then girlfriend. You treated HER like crap.

I think her resentment from that time has not been dealt with, and has something to do with her feeling entitled to see whomever she wants, now.

I do hope you are able NOT to feel angry and to feel compassion and empathy, and show unlimited patience.

I am trying.

So the wife is now officially in withdrawal. She tried to contact OM today but he won't contact her. Might have something to do with my call where I promised to ruin him if he ever spoke to her again.

I know...not the best call.

She is willing to hang with me, and I know that things will get better, I have to have the patience.

How do I find that patience not to use LB's when even though she is hanging with me she is thinking of him? When she is on Facebook talking about him, when she is still trying to talk to him?

I feel like I am faking it, and that she is. She is angry and in defense of him. I told her she needed to do an NC letter. She said get a life. Leave that poor guy alone.

I understand her defense of him, she is still in the illusion filled fantasy land.

How do I find the patience. I love her, and want her to love back...but I know that is going to take a while.

It is so hard not to go...f-you b...h, you are thinking of him, I am walking!!! It's like she is cheating in her head. She says he was just a friend, still says it. In denial of what she was actually doing and where it was leading. Being angry.

I know it is withdrawal. I know I need to be brave. I know I need to be there. I feel like an alcoholic who needs a sponsor to help keep me strong.

If it wasn't for me, she would still be doing it....and what if he does start to talk to her again?

Oh the questions, the uncertainty. When do the Plan A ultimatums come in? I am trying to do the right thing, but the situation is so fluid. She is acting manic...one minute wonderful, the next full of venom. And the power she still has to hurt me. I know everyone says I give her the power, but I have been unable yet to take it away. And if I do take it away, what then is the point of moving forward with her?

So confused, scared, and excited all at the same time. I know from my A that a great period in our lives could start next and this time we could keep it that way.

That is why I am still in it. That hope, that desire. I will survive, and can without her, but I don't yet want to.

She is special.

She has stopped posting here, unfortunately, because to many people were judging her and lashing out their own anger on her, not helping. I know there is a lot of anger here, and justifiably, but we are all here to help one another.

So let's try to help her and I...negativity is not a part of the healing.

Thanks all!

Jim, there are no ultimatums in plan A. You change into a better you in plan A. You identify the problems you bring to the M and you change those things. You meet her top 5 EN's the best you can without expecting anything in return for your EN's (for now). You cut out the LB's and DJ's. You become the husband you can and should be. When your love bank starts running low and if she has not finished with the OM then you go to plan B.

Fake it til you make it.

That is exactly what I plan to do.

And thanks for clarification.

jim, if you make statements like that, which suggest that you have not had help, then people will stop posting to you.

Hi Jimbob

Man, reading your situation stings. I see a lot of myself five years ago in it.

Trust me, I know how you feel Jimbob, but faith and Sugar cane etc ARE helping you. They ( and I) have seen too many situations spiral out of control for lack of confident anti-affair behaviour ASAP. Your wife doesn't want to hear what they have to say because wayward folks live in a bubble of self delusion. That how people of otherwise good conscience HAVE to live in sin. She excuses her own behaviour, but it is unhelpful for you or anyone trying to support you both to do that.

What many of us have learned is that instinct is rarely the BS' friend when facing adultery by a spouse. It usually renders us trusting, timid, unrealistic, pathetic. None of those ( perfectly understandable) attributes are remotely helpful when facing the evil of an affair.

Harley's methods aren't a magic bullet, Jimbob, but they're the best tools I know of for your situation. The fastest horse doesn't always win, but thats where you should bet your money in any case.

Its time for you to be a MAN and set the benchmark for righteousness and high-mindedness in a freaked up situation. Be a hero to draw the sting from everyone affected's lives so decisions can be made while NOT in existential pain. Confronting OM was a good start. Find out details of his life : people whose opinion he respects and expose to them. Use all the levers possible to keep OM out of your lives.

Have you exposed to anyone in your wife's circle of respect yet ? Her parents, siblings, friends ?

Next Jimbob your wife has never needed you to be a MAN as much as she does right now. She is incapable of a healthy relationship with anyone, not you, God or OM.

Its your job to reestablish calm and a fertile environment for discussion. No-one else is capable of so doing.

I know exactly how you may feel that everything is scary, and you can't change the situation in your wifes mind and heart, but that is your emotional response, not fact.

You owe it to your kids, yourself, your wife and the vow you made before God and man to be strong and calm - a beacon of light and hope in a terrible situation. I promise you that by calming the storm within you, you can become a fountain of calm in your life.

Only then, once passions have subsided and calmness prevails can any of you make sensible decisions about your futures.

Whatever either of you decides permanently while hurting now will be regretted in future I guarantee it.

I have learned, and I truly believe that there is no higher state of grace for a man than to be what his family needs in troubled times, particularly when he doesn't feel capable of so being.

Be a knight not a serf. Take control of yourself and spread your calm through all your lives. Be restrained and objectived.

In that way you can be proud even if you DON'T make recovery.

Stop the (understandable) self pity and step up to the plate. Your wife needs you to save her from herself. Are you up to the challenge Jimbob ?

I'm just an everyday bloke and I managed to do this against all the indicators. And I have never been prouder of anything I've ever done in my life. Understand that NOTHING YOU CAN DO can make you lose your wife any more than she is already lost to you.

Study MB. Address your issues in plan A. Love your wife while understanding the dynamics affecting her behaviour and thought processes right now. You will be amazed how much more positive you will feel when you are taking affirmative, brave action against your troubles. And don't waste effort trying to understand your wife right now. No psychologist on earth could understand an active wayward. Doing the right things is whats important now, not esoteric psychology.

And it starts now with being the husband your wife doesn't currently deserve and the father your kids DO deserve.

Your calm and decency will shine like a beacon against the chaos of your WWs actions, and it WILL make an impression on the good woman that is captive beneath all her fog.

Hunker down for the long run but DEAR GOD it WILL be worth it. My life is transformed now - genuinely happy from a situation where that seemed impossible. But you have to calm down against your every instinct and act up.

Stop the passive meekness. You're entitled to it but as Dr. Phil would say "how's THAT workin' out for ya?"
Read ALL the articles on this site. Buy "Surviving an affair". Sit at the feet of Faith, Sugar, Pep, Mel,Just Learning and the other battle scarred but proud warriors who have pulled SO MANY of us from the firestorm over the years. And have faith that you can do this.


Then fight for them!

Do a FANTASTIC Plan A while you plan an utterly black plan B. Then when you affect it (very soon - weeks not months) it will be most effective at soothing your hurt and raising WWs fears of life without you.

I don't stop by here too often but If I can help you can find me.

I leave you with my question : "What would you do if you were not afraid ?"

It sounds like you are getting defensive or labeling some of the things you are hearing from FF and SC as negative, but I think they posted some really good insights to you...

Just wanted to add to the part about having a special needs child ~ my son has had several issues that had us going back and forth to so many medical appointments from when he was a baby to even now (he is 7). To me each one of these appts are quite stressful. I hope I am not making assumptions but it sounds like your W is going to these alone? Can you find a way to attend these w/her? My H and I tried to attend as many of the appts together and I couldn't imagine if he didn't make huge efforts to go with me.

Also I hope you think more about the suggestion of increased UA/RC time together away from the kids. I think especially with special needs children, this can't be emphasized enough. It sounds like your WW's behavior is a signal this is what she is looking for, more stress-free time outside of the house.

Lastly, some Plan A advice, Lovebusters drain the LB$ faster than you can fill it by meeting ENs...so I would almost recommend reading the Lovebusters book over the Fall in Love book for now. Hang in there.

Sorry, the comments about negativity came from her thread, not this one. The mod's deleted the posts, but they shied my wife away for a moment.

Jim, I don't know a single ACTIVE wayward that does not get defensive here on MB. I agree some of those posts were off target and unnecessary but there was also a lot of truth in that thread. Your WW got defensive immediately with me and I was only holding up a mirror to her.

Now back to you. Tell us about your plan A so far and let's see if we can tighten it up. As for your WW needing a break...she may not say it or even show it but believe me she does. She needs you to make her feel like your girl friend, your lover, a woman and not just a mother.

Also...you never answered my questions about whether she is going to these appts by herself and if you could start going w/her...