When I found their instant messaging on D-Day, in one session spanning maybe 30 minutes he wrote "I love you" to her more times than he had told me out loud or in writing in our entire 17 year relationship. That hurt.

"So I learned long ago that men will go to great heights at the promise of good loving (*wink, *wink) It sounds simplistic, and pardon me men if you get offended, but I have tried this with my H before, if I ask for something in the "come hither, you're going to get something later" voice, he is more likely to do something for me with a smile on his face.
"



hahaha

I agree. Actually, I tried to hint to this on another post...I think I told her to use the power of female persuasion. I wonder if a lot of BW's often give 'good loving' whenever H requests, because she is terrified he will go elsewhere for fulfillment. I have a sil who went through a really hard affair and this is what she would do, try to overcompensate sexually...IMO. Not really a good idea if you think about it. I am not saying to starve the poor guy, but we can make it more exciting and give him something to look forward to maybe? Also, make him work for it, lol.

StillHere, I can't imagine how hard that must have been for you! I ached for you just reading it. You must be a strong person to get through all of that, are you in recovery now? Don't forget that it wasn't real...no matter how many times he said it or how much he may have believed it at the time.

I have observed this discussion time and again her in the forums. The WS invested very much in the A relationship, far more then they have ever put into the M. This may be investments like gifts, time, attention, talk,romantic acts, e-mails, flowers, writing poems, enthusiastic SF, kinds of SF they refuse with their S and so on.


When the A is over they are unwilling to invest anything like that in their M or in their BS.


What really surprises me is that the comfort given by most posters here to the poor BS is VERY SHALLOW: What was given or invested in the A was not real. It was just a fantasy. It was not valuable. Be thankful that he/ she is still with you. And so on and so on. In particular this is so if the BS is a BH complaining about the disparity of the enthusiasm the WW invested in the A-SF relative to what she has ever been/ is willing to invest in the M-SF. Generally for all these scenarios it is assumed that the BS is wrong in wishing for WS enthusiasm and willingness to invest in the M.


Why this willingness to settle for crumbs? Why is your advice for the BS: "Do not wish for what you can not get." ? Why is the BS not worth at least the same level of enthusiasm and investment that the OP got?


The Harleys speaks of "just compensation". But this is a term that seems to be given little real content.


In my opinion, a WS who proved capable to invested very much in the A and then is unwilling to invest much in the M should not qualify for the F in FWS.

If you look at a WS as an addict, it is easy to understand that they are 'whoring' themselves to get their drug; their drug being whatever EN the OP is giving them. They fine-tune themselves to recognize the EN's of the OP in order to do that. OP likes flowers? They'll call FTD and order a bunch for delivery to the OP. OP likes perfume? Off to the store the WS goes to find the OP's favorite fragrance. Poetry? Even a WS who fell asleep during the Poetry portion of their senior English class will suddenly start googling "love poems" in order to meet the OP's need for mushy words. It's all about setting the stage for the WS to get their EN's met.

My FWH recognized OP's desire to see new places - boom! All of his emails were tailored to include all the places he was going to take her. He recognized her need to be admired - and you should read the syrupy crap he told her about how wonderful she was in that regard. Now he looks back at that and is amazed that he really thought she had any admirable qualities.

It wasn't real, Frank. It was a fantasy. And it was all about my H getting his needs met. And I certainly don't want him to google mushy love poems for me, just because he did it for OW. I'm not into mushy poems per se. What's important is that I communicate my needs to him and he meets them. It's important for BS's to realize that it's not about what their WS did with the OP, but making sure both people recognize and meet each others' EN's.

I have kinda the opposite problem.

I have always bought flowers, planed romantic getaways, surprised her with gifts, cooked her dinner and cleaned on regular basis, and just generally tried to do romantic things for my wife. She in tern has always reacted favorably to my actions.

OM did Nothing!
I mean NOTHING!

He did not have two penny's (or two brain cells) to rub together. He did not cook, he did not clean, he did not even have a running car of his own, he borrowed one. He is a lazy slob who still mooches of his parents who both live on disability. He did NOTHING!

Yet she reacted the same way romantically to his doing nothing as she always did/does to me when I bust my bottom to be romantic.

Why am I held to such a hire standard?

Logically I know her affair was a fantasy and she really believed she had found "The One" and actually believed she would live happily ever after with this looser in a land where the sky is always blue and the unicorns fart rainbows.

It did not take two long for that fantasy to be shattered. Longer than I expected, but definitely not forever.

But on an emotional level it bothers me that I need to work so much harder than OM to get the same response.

He didn't need to meet those needs because YOU were. Like I said - the OM, in his addicted state, could sense that he didn't NEED to whore himself in that way. Those needs were already being met for your WW by you. Imagine how quickly their relationship would have blown apart if she'd left you. All the EN's you were meeting would have been gone and there's OM, doing squat except whatever minimal thing he'd been doing to keep her on the hook. Talk about the harsh light of reality!

Saying you're being held to a higher standard is saying that you're comparing yourself to your WW's lowlife OM - and there should be no comparison. He's a lowlife who doesn't deserve to be referenced in the same thought as yourself.

Besides, do you really think you're being held to a higher standard? I mean, aren't you doing those things for her because you want to? If you're doing it under duress, I think you'll end up feeling resentful. Meeting EN's should be something you want to do.

I just think the things you're doing for your W are at a higher level because you are at a higher, better place than OM.

Negative.
My wife left to be free to party with her single "friends" at there urging, then met looser boy at a bar and had an exit affair.
(I have verified this with multiple people and OM, as unbelievable as it is, it's true)

Wow I go away for a day and this board picks up.

SHM- I read your post and I totally understand what you are saying, and agree that we should not settle for being taken for granted, I do communicate and discuss in detail my emotional needs with WS but I am in the unfortunate situation where he has Emotionall (lack of) issues that and he is literally incapable of meeting some of the most importaint EN's (maybe they are the most importaint because he cant meet them) so he is working on it by reading about emotional intelligence and in the mean time im working on me as there isnt much else i can do.

I may sound naive but the OW didnt make any demands on WS he simply did all the things i have been asking him to do for years with me with the OW because he knew those were the things women want so he totally used my EN's to meet OW EN's thats what sucks about this situation, I dont want to get the same things OW got but its hard when they were my EN's to be met in the first place because stupid me had good communication with WS (pre A) and told him what i needed etc. He took all that advice communication and used it to make OW happy. A great exaple of this is that as I have been his only sexual partner during his lifetime he used things that he knew I liked on OW like kissing her neck, he admits that when the SF was so horrid with OW he had to do something to liven her up and thought "humm what does my wife like in bed, oh i got it.. kissing her neck, let me try that on OW" it was like that. Now im just stuck not wanting to do any of the things he did with OW but then cant change what my EN's are to suit that.

Reva- how do you deal with that??

HL the Good loving bait wont make a difference in my case the good Loving was one of the reasons the fantasy of the A broke down, if you have read my thread or his its pretty clear the SF was horrendous between them. I dont withold SF from him i just struggle with it as him not meeting the EN's effects the SF greatly. He is aware of this yet even thats not incentive enough for him to meet them again because he says he doesent know how, he hasnt got the right emotional intelligence and all the other excuses he has come up with.

Frank - all i can say is thank you for your post it is exactly what I have been thinking and getting frustrated with. Its about time these waywards bring some of that fantasy effect thinking into their marriage. I asked Steve Harley what Just compensation was during one of our telephone coaching and he said it was basically having a better marriage than the one before the A.


MaritalBliss- Following your Addict comparison how can you get your WS to be an Addict to the Marriage? If he was an addict to the OP shouldnt there be a little bit of that addiction to their M when they get back from la la land??

I use to be the flowers home etc.

It didn't get much of a response, so now I don't even ask her for a date. Sad, but true.

the mud thats just not right, im so sorry whats stopping you from asking and not giving up on asking??

I'd say the WS isn't addicted to their AP. They're addicted to the AP filling their ENs.

Please read the links on here - Dr. H talks about it at length (check out the 'Recovering from Infidelity link)and can explain it far more thoroughly than can I. But I can say this: After the A, H and I talked - a LOT. And we were brutally honest (sorry about snagging your name, there ) with each other about what we liked/disliked and needed to be happy, and about the needs we had that the other could fulfill. We had never done that before the A - we sort of met each other's needs by instinct before that, and obviously not very well .

When we talked after the A, we discussed what his main ENs were and we identified ways I could meet those needs. We did the same with my needs. That alone brought more intimacy into our M than had been there before.

It is almost too easy and has been so rewarding! I'm like "Duh! Why did I think it wasn't important to scratch his back every now and then? Or to text him out of the blue to tell him I loved him?"

Same with him. I got flowers at my office out of the blue last Friday. Wow! I can't tell you how loving that made me toward him, to know he would make that effort (he never sent me flowers before unless it was my birthday).

I occasionally make him a brown bag lunch and slip in a loving note. He starts my car up on cold mornings so it's warm when I get in.

He makes a point of bringing me up in conversations with others to point out admirable things about me. It's important to me to know that he is proud of me and that's one of the ways he meets that need.

A very important part of our lives are his elderly parents. I have made it a priority to plan meals to take to them that he and I make together. He is beyond thankful that I initiate planning these meals.

IOW - I consciously think about his needs and how I can fill those needs. He does the same with me. I hesitate to use the word 'addiction' to describe our M because that word has negative connotations, but I can say that it is glaringly obvious to anyone that we are in love and are very committed to having a healthy marriage.

Tearfully jelous.

Brutallyhonest