Brit, have you read the article When to Call It Quits in the Newsletters forum? I hope it will give you more to think about with your options. If your H moves out, then you two can decide that he would only come back once you two have a working plan in place again, which from your description, you haven't had in years. What we used to do to have conversations that wouldn't get loud was to go for a walk together, or to a coffee-shop. Are you two doing date nights, like it describes in that article? If he got into counseling with someone who would give him accountability, would you be willing to go on date nights with him? I liked what you said about cleaning the kitchen, doing things that you are enthusiastic about. You're in a tough situation, but you can do this! I'm glad that you have outside help.

Britmom,

For what you have said and thought here I don't have any clearness about whether your H is having an affair or not. Don't you want to know? Maybe it's not an issue at all - and that would be a good news -, but you don't know for sure, do you?

I have a feeling - sorry if I'm wrong, I'd be glad to be wrong, in fact - that you want to repair your marriage because of your daughter, that she can have a stable environment and home, and not so much to romantically fall back in love to your H. Dr Harley, on the other hand has a clear plan how to romantically fall in love to your spouse again, how to have a great marriage, and that is a perfect environment for a child, or teen to feel good in. But for that to happen, you need to clear the air about the affair thing.

For me, finding condoms is something which raises questions.

Called counsellor this morning and we both went. Counsellor very gently supported option 4! H not happy at all. Said: "I am verbally agreeing to this but i don't know what I feel" He really does not want to put any effort in at all. Even tonight he is still talking about moving out. D very upset and not talking to either of us but actually is! You know teenagers they have to have their say! We wrote out a plan at the counsellor, of what to say jointly to kids about being in a process of working on our marriage, that it will take time and that I will do more things with the family but still sleep in basement. Of course H could not wait for me to get home to begin talking about it but waited for me to read it. Very angry and stiff when reading. I did interrupt because he started to spin - if looks could kill!- anyway he read it D had no questions and we talked quietly, well he talked I participated when I was allowed.
Counsellor told him again that he talks over her as well as talks over me and he has to stop and listen.
We talked about how d was upset no one was home when she got home from practice and really spun her anxiety onto big bro. He is all for her to live with him. I tried to put some logic into it for H. She is used to being alone. She could have called either of us and I certainly could have been there in 5 minutes. She is pumping situation with teenage drama. He also saying see how she doesn't want to be with you or like you (her words) I say she doesn't have to like me and I would not expect teenage girl to want to be with mom or like her mom. I do think it is a little more exaggerated but I remember I have another daughter and been through teenage girl stuff before.H doesn't want to hear this though. I am bad parent for living in basement and splitting up family. He can't live with it anymore but he will try option 4 for a week. I know he will say it hasn't worked because he is not going to put any effort in himself but he will say he has and then leave.

Found another condom in closet when I got home. H is already home. My bff suggests webcam. Any ideas how to do that?

Well it is frustrating when noone has any ideas. Now H has 2 of his own missing, only way i can think to check on him, could not afford webcam. I have thought that either he is having affair, thinking about it or wants me to think it. Which going along with previous actions I think is pretty sick. I am at the end of my rope and I think this is the end of our marriage.

Sorry britmom, please consider hitting the "notify" button below your post, ask the mods to move your thread to SAA, where the infidelity vets who have been where you've been are. Please consider too changing your thread title to something like "New Poster, needs help getting info for exposure" or something specific like that. If you look at the SAA board, there are usually some threads like that already, where you can see the advice given to others. I know it's frustrating, hang in there!

Why would he want you to think that he is having an affair?

What about checking his phone records, to see if there's any numbers he has been calling a lot to or sent/received messages? Do you have an access to his computer, to see the sites' history, his interests, etc.

Unders the link Spying 101 there are several ideas how to snoop around and getting evidence with small amount or no money.

I cannot check his phone or computer as they are business ones. I tried recording in his car but forgot he plays radio all time so did not get anything but background on the recorder.
He has had to go visit very sick mom and is not even calling me to let me know how she is; I have known her all my life. I did call this morning hoping to get the ball rolling.

H is in Britain visiting mom. He has not contacted me at all. I called him once and texted once. He answered phone and was very defensive, did not answer text. He is calling D. This morning I called brother in laws as I thought to find out how mother in law is doing. I also thought it would not hurt for them to know H is not talking to me. Also called my mom. Finally got her to understand H is not speaking to me so she told me he is going to visit them while in Britain also. This makes me feel very defensive even though I have done nothing wrong.
He is such a smooth talker I always feel that no one will believe me after they have listened to him.
I also want to say I realize thast I am really into DJ's but kind of feel justified after trying for 20 years and covering up for his behavior.
I have thought about plan A and plan b even if there is no affair. It would be really hard for me to do as I have tried so hard in the past and still not had my needs met at all.
I am thinking of taking condoms I found to next counselling session and confronting him with them and the fact that 2 of his own are missing!
Counsellor asked if I would know if he is lying and I said no because everything he says always has an element of truth in it or he will never answer a question directly - no he is not a politician-
Sorry to jump around. I realize that i have never mentioned the fact that i think he is having or was having EA. When DD was in ER he texted mutual female friend. This bothered me as he did not need to and his BBF is a male and he did not text him.
Anyway when female and her husband were at our house I requested that H and she always have her H present for conversation. I was desparately afraid of fallout from H. The next day he told me how embarrassed he was that I should say such a thing. I asked why he did not text male friend. He said because I had called his wife so he already would know about D. I said that did not matter because the call was for comfort and so it would not matter if male freind already knew. Also got barrage of Emotional abuse about how it is my fault the children are suffering and how I will miss out on DD 16 birthday etc.
Anyway I suppose I am asking should I take condoms it will probably be another week before we can meet counsellor or should I do something else?