All I'm asking for is HELP!!! Please folks give it to me straight...

Here's my history:

Been living a nightmare since Fall 2005. My H began an EA with OW #1 in Fall '05. She was a business rep who called on his office, so she could go see him anytime she wanted. He didn't object...and I had no clue this was going on.

Feb. '06 - WH starts telling me "you're a great mom; just not a great wife"..."I love u but I'm not in love with you...etc. Y'all have heard them all - I'm sure. At this time we're at the tail end of an international adoption process to adopt a baby girl. Our next step was to go to the country of birth and meet the baby and adoption officials. He "suggests", given his current feelings, we call off the adoption. I am crushed.

We try MC for the first time. I'm suspicious - he denies every time I ask about A. His office manager calls me March '06 and tells me to check our cell phone records. By the way, at this time, I'm doing the bookkeeping for his business, homeschooling our oldest son, etc so I have easy access to cell phone bills. Sure enough I find a # over and over - I call it - I know the OW. She freaks - calls him. He says she's just a friend and maybe the friendship's gotten a little out of hand. He said then NC with her and told her she couldn't return to his office. Him - Liar. Me - Stupid. June 6, 2006 (get this 6/6/06) he comes home and starts crying. Tells me he never stopped contact with OW. He says it was an EA and PA with no actual intercourse and he has completely ended it. OWH now knows. Again - him - liar; me - stupid. He spends rest of June in mourning. We separate in July because he's doing nothing to repair damage. I decide to file for D in the fall - he begs for me to reconsider. We attend a New Beginnings weekend in December and reconcile 12/06.

Fast forward - 08/2007 - past 8 months had been okay; we try MC again; he didn't like talking about A and dealing with my hurt/anger - Something in me grew suspicious - I called OWH out of the blue and asked him a few ?'s. We learned a lot. A had actually lasted until 12/06. The week before our "save my marriage" weekend he was in Vegas with the OW (He had told me he was at a continuing ed seminar - alone). The A was obviously sexual - meaning intercourse. I confront WH at his office (bad choice). He forcibly removes me. I kick him out of our house. He's gone a week staying with his mom, who knew about his A. He cries, pleads for me to work things out with him. I, like an idiot, take him back - demand full disclosure/transparency. He lies again - "We only did "it" a couple of times". He refuses to go back to MC.

Fast forward - 10/2008 - WH's best friend tells me my H doesn't really love me and he's only staying married to me for our boys. The BF says he's only telling me this because he thinks my H treats me like poo and the BF also says he's pretty sure something's going on with a female employee at my H's office. Temporary insanity hits me - a week later while out with the girls I see a friend at a bar; have a ONS with him; confess a week later to the H. I have zero excuses for my behavior - I knew better; was raised better and acted like a selfish moron. Gave H all passwords to every electronic thing I owned, did the complete NC thing, cut contact with all friends I was out with that night, answered every ? & gave every detail I could remember. I agreed to no more girls night out's and no drinking.

Then - 11/2008 - day after Thanksgiving - I get a phone call at 2 am from one of his employee's relatives. She says she has to talk to me asap. I meet with her. She tells me my WH is having an A with her cousin, also WH's employee (making her OW #4) - Wait for it....and then says she also knows he had an A in 5/2008 (OW #2) and in 7/2008 (OW #3). I confirm A with OW #4 as she was also a friend of mine (I babysat her daughter after school most days). She admits to it. She also tells me of OW #3 & #4. I go home, wake up the WH- he takes off to hotel before answering my ?s. Over the next week, he gives up all the info I request. Finally admits A #1 was intercourse "all the time - at her house, at hotels, at her parent's lake house, etc." Gives me dates of all encounters with OW #2 & #3. #2 was a ONS. #3 lasted 2 months. #4 started up 9/08 ended when they got caught 11/2008. So, yes, you are thinking correctly, my ONS was during my WH's fourth A. He went crying to OW #4 when he found out what I did. AND yes - I have been STD tested regularly since 2006 and have been blessed with a clean bill of health.

Back to the time line - I'm a freak for 6 weeks - agree to go to another marriage seminar in 01/2009 because he asked me to and I felt horribly guilty for what I had done. I thought I should try one more time. We slowly started putting our lives back together. Fall 2009 - I find strip club charges on his credit card bills from 4/09 & 5/09. I find porn on his iphone and a link to a website for married people looking for an affair. Confront him again...I get no decent answers. Says he's not having an A and "what's wrong with a little porn."

The WH has been to IC a few times with one person (1,2/2009). I've been to IC as well and have gladly stayed on the straight and narrow path personally. Contrary to how this story reads, I am actually college educated and am the mom to 2 fabulous boys.

So, what is wrong with me??? Someone please give me insight into what I'm dealing with. I am in Plan B mode right now - staying with my parents. My boys are with me. Since all the A's started in 2006, my WH flies into rages when even questioned about his behavior. So we don't talk about our issues; I've asked multiple times for him to go back to MC with me. He won't. I've seen an attorney. But I'm stuck - my guilt over my own actions has left me immobilized. I welcome any advice, suggestions, questions, comments...

ME: BS (2005 - ?); WW (ONS 2008)
WH: 2005 - ?; BS ('08)
Married: 1996
2 boys (11 & 8)
Not recovering - stuck in the muck!!

Welcome to Marriage Builders, JaG (we use a lot of abbreviations here). I'm sorry you found yourself having to be here.

I have read your story and will reserve my personal comments for later. The first thing I would like to do is ask you a question: What is it you want? What do you want to do?

This is Marriage Builders, and there is a lot of very good information on this site and it is all free. There are also some terrific books you can buy (or perhaps borrow from your library) if you want to learn the MB concepts. To the right of this page is a box labeled "Most Popular Links." You can start there by reading Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts, Love Busters, and more. There is also a link at the top of the page to many of the articles. A forum titled Newsletters adds to the wealth of knowledge here.

OK, here comes the personal opinion, and probably a or two along with it.

First, you had a 'revenge affair' with your ONS. There is no excuse for that, and you know it. But it weakens your position. It is what it is. But my concern is your husband. He seems to me to be a serial cheater. There is a dynamic in your marriage that I sense but cannot quite put my finger on. There is a book, "The Dance of Anger" that comes to mind. Are you familiar with it?

You say you've been living this nightmare since Fall 2005. How long have you been married? Are you both from the same culture, do you attend church, do either of you have a problem with drugs or alcohol?

I find it interesting that his office manager should be the one to alert you (in March '06, no less). Usually, it's the other way around -- we usually recommend to the betrayed spouse (BS) to expose the affair to everyone who has influence with the wayward spouse (WS). Have you ever "gone nuclear" and exposed his affairs?

Exposure is the #1 effective tool in ending affairs. They thrive in secrecy, and that aspect of them adds to the excitement of having them. When they are exposed, and their dirty, illicit nature are known to people in the affair partners' (AP) circle, things begin to crumble.

So now you say you're stuck. You've seen an attorney and -- what? He seems unwilling to commit one way or the other, and treats you horribly. There seems to be a lot of co-dependence in this relationship, and that's not a healthy thing.

Unfortunately, you have two sons, otherwise the solution I think would be clear.

It's very early in the day. Please answer the questions so that we can have a fuller idea of the status of your marriage. The wonderful "veterans" will arrive in a few hours and will give you lots of advice, a few and ask a lot of questions.

Again, sorry you found yourself having to be here. But this is a wonderful place for building strong, healthy marriages when possible.

Even with children involved, I think the solution is still clear here. Walk away as quickly as possible from that horrible excuse of a H before things get MUCH worse than they are already.

Here goes from a fellow Texan -

What are your personal boundries that you expect from your husband...and what CONSEQUENCES has he ever had for overstepping those boundries.

It comes down to this: you husband knows what the boundries are, but he has NEVER YET had a consequence for ignoring them.

What do YOU want?

Both of you sound like you want to remain in your M, but I get the feeling you both have needs that aren't being met by the other and you are resentful because of it. I get the feeling that the two of your are blindly trying to find your place in your M and your lives.

Call the Harleys and set up an appointment for some direction.

He is a sexually transmitted disease waiting to strike you.

I'd be more inclined to say "Fight for him as you wish; it is your life." if there were no children. You owe it to your children to not so greatly increase your risk of contracting a disease that will kill their mother.

Thanks for the responses....here's more information:

We've been married 13 years. I had never been married before. He had divorced in 1995 after a 6 week marriage. His former spouse cited physical abuse as the reason for leaving. He said she told him on the honeymoon she didn't really love him or want to be married. I talked extensively to his mom and sister about this time in his life. I also talked to friends of his. None said they could believe he would ever get physically abusive.

Our biggest issues the first few years of marriage were dealing with his family. His father committed suicide in 1993 and his mother was diagnosed with a severe, at times, chronic illness - She's been hospitalized multiple times during our marriage, almost dying twice. We didn't have excessive fighting, yelling. But he did grab me by the face once in 2001 squeezing my cheeks hard enough to leave a bruise. (Yes, I know - a very red flag!!) He continues a kind of love/hate relationship with his extended family to this day as they mostly live within a few miles of us.

Once we moved to his hometown, in 2003, he opened a business - this seems to be the time when the damn broke. His first office manager stole from us - that's how I ended up working in his business. Gradually from 2003 to the present, the business has been referred to as "his business" - my contributions are not recognized. The money is "his money". He's told me I'm lazy and a mooch (sp?) I quit working for him in 2006 - went to work elsewhere. Ran up credit card debt during his first A trying to stay afloat (He wasn't moving money over from his business to cover most of our living expenses during this time) All the cc debt in his name has been paid off. Anything in my name he refused to continue paying in 2008 and I've since joined a credit counseling agency to pay this sum off. We have the financial resources to pay my debt off. He only agreed to pay the cc agency their agreed amount. I started doing work for him again in 2008 when his then office manager quit suddenly.

A #1 has had multiple, very public consequences. His job requires a license and the OW and OWH turned him into his licensing board, given her link to his business. He was reprimanded in 2009; there was a news release in our local paper last year. At the present he's in danger of losing a contract with his largest payment source because of the reprimand. Friends & family know about A and consequences. Our children have made no indication of knowing.

Only my family know of A's 2, 3 & 4. They also know of my ONS.

In July 2006, before we separated, I confronted him about his not doing anything positive to repair our marriage. I told him I guess I needed to talk to his family and do whatever it took to get him to make an effort. (The A was of course still going on while he claimed it was over). He reacted by hitting me, screaming to stay away from his family and his business. He threatened me over and over before I got out of our house. I called the police. They did nothing but ask him to leave so I could get my belongings out of the house. (The cops knew him). I told my parents and his family. His family did not believe me. We stayed separated until 12/2006. He went to IC. His A was ongoing the entire time (I learned this 8/2007).

Since 2006 to present, he yells, screams, accuses, call names, cusses, throws things. But is careful to not actually put his hands on me.

As of this week, his family has finally admitted to knowing of these rages he flies into.

I've been in church a lot and am a Christian. I've sought help from elders and ministers. The only response I've received has been a concern to not damage my H's reputation (2006 advice) to acknowledgement that the pastoral staff of the church we were attending knows about the problems and are praying for us.

I've read multiple books about any A subject and have read several books by Dr. Harley.

Whoever said I have codependency issues hit the nail on the head. I am financially dependent on my H as he's pointed out time and time again. I've never followed through with any marital consequences. I leave and always go back. I have no self esteem left.

What I want now? I want out and want my kids to be okay. It's time to make my stand. I guess I've been looking for validation from people who have "been there, done that". So many people in my life have minimized what I've lived with.

Any suggestions for next steps, besides get an attorney. My H has not seen our boys for 2 days and has sent texts saying bring the boys home or he's getting the police involved.

JaG, until the "veterans" show up, my advice to you is to

SEE AN ATTORNEY

This man is abusive. You might consider getting a restraining order against him, claiming fear of your life and your kids' well-being. Nothing is a better defense than a good offense.

Even though this is Marriage Builders, your husband is abusive to the point of being psychotic. I can't, in good conscience, recommend you trying any of the recovery steps at this point.

I'm sorry. You need to protect yourself and your kids. This is a dangerous, unstable man. You need to put distance between he and you & your family RIGHT NOW!

I whole heartedly agree with Fred!!!! Ask about filing a PFA and JAG, find a new church. You need the love and support of a real, loving church family not spiritual leaders who are more concerned about reputations than the safety of you and your children. My church would have initiated church discipline and counseling.

I am afraid for your safety. DO NOT HESITATE!!!!

God's Blessings,

Say

I am not a veteran here, but I would say WHY IN THE HELL ARE YOU STILL WITH THIS MAN????

I feel sorry for your children, growing up for all these years in an environment of tension, turmoil, and two parents who are not looking out for their best interest.

You sound as though you are tied up in the unhealthy cycle of drama around your H's affairs and your reactions and him trying to temporarily get you back and then he returns to the same behavior. He's a serial cheater. You are a player in this cycle and at this point, only you can break it. Get away from this man and make a calm, supportive home for yourself and your children.

You have said you are dependent on him. All these years of mistreatment and turmoil and you've done nothing to break that dependence? You are as guilty as him of not trying to make a positive change in how your life is playing out.

Get a therapist
Get a job
Take care of your children
Dump your H

My opinion.

Agree with Fred.

Plus, if you get a separation agreement or a divorce, WH will have to help pay your bills via child support and possibly alimony.

Protect yourself.
Get counseling for yourself.
You will look back on this one day and shake your head that you stayed as long as you did and wondered if it was time to get out.

Yes your ONS was a gross error in judgment. There are ways to deal with how you allowed yourself to follow that path and it sounds to me like you've dealt with that already. But even if you haven't, there are ways to deal with your ownership of that behavior, and none of it involves staying with your H.

Yes I've bought in to the "crazy" cycle and I'm owning that. I'm not destitute and have a way of supporting myself.

I've left our home with my boys and we are staying with family. I've been attending a new church and will continue to seek a place for spiritual guidance.

I don't know why I've stayed so long. I got a recommendation for a counselor who's lived through a serial cheater marriage. Will make appointment asap. I can get my kids in therapy too.

I gotta question. Have you ever looked at something called the wheel of abuse? In some circles, it is called the Duluth model and there is too much there for me to point at it. Just do a web search and take a look at several web sites.

Abuse is more than battering.

Your WH is an abuser. He is a controlling bully. But you know that. Using money to control you is the same as hitting you.

He is no part of a human partner. You have two boys who are of an age where they need safety and a better role model than he is providing.

That doesn't mean a replacement, it means providing consequences so he can be a better person, if he is able. Fortunately, you live in Texas, so your legal opportunity to provide life lessons for him are extensive and painful.

Your Attorney, hopefully the best pit bull in your neck of the woods, will be your advocate.

This whole deal is very harmful for your two boys. So Mom, get busy and do what needs to be done.

Larry

Larry - thanks. I'm researching...

I looked up economic abuse too - might as well have posted my picture next to the definition:

<Economic abuse is when the abuser has control over the victim's money and other economic resources. In its extreme (and usual) form, this involves putting the victim on a strict "allowance", withholding money at will and forcing the victim to beg for the money until the abuser gives them some money. It is common for the victim to receive less money as the abuse continues. This also includes (but is not limited to) preventing the victim from finishing education or obtaining employment, or intentionally squandering or misusing communal resources.[45] From Wikipedia>

Also, I have some recs for attorney's - will be checking them out asap

GFT

I suspect the reason you have not seen much in the way of posting to your thread is the simple fact most folks can't work up too much advice to save a marriage where the wayward is an abuser.

Not me. I relish any opportunity to help someone put the serious hurt on an abuser, and I don't care if they are male or female. I have seen my share of abused women (and men) and I hate it. I take it so seriously that I have extended a safety net to my ex-wife who woke up one day and found herself with an abuser (not me). It happens.

I understand your caution about some things. If you can tell what field the license is, I would like to know. Is it a trade license like plumber?

Now that you are starting to focus on important details like what to tell your kids, I hope some more people will come out of the woodwork and help. There have been some excellent posts in the past associated with what to tell kids and some excellent advisers on the subject who used to hang out here. I am just back from a year and a half of not being here, so I dunno if the ones I am thinking of are still hanging around or not.

The bottom line with your husband is that at this time he is a controlling jerk. Until he does a personality transplant, he isn't worth salvaging. Maybe he was ok when you married. If so, then he needs to get over himself and return to that persona, or suffer the consequences. That's my opinion.

Oh, and if you can spare the money, one sneaky trick when you are playing hard ball is to have a short PAID legal session with several of the other pit bull attorneys (other than the one you pick) in town to block his access to the best talent.

I hate abusers.

Larry

(((JaG)))

>I hate abusers.


Me too.

I think your wayward has used EVERY means possible as a way to control you...and that includes the adultry.

Love is NEVER about control.

> PAID legal session with several of the other pit bull attorneys (other than the one you pick) in town to block his access to the best talent.


That is AWESOME advice, Larry.

Ok TX, looks like nobody is going to chime in with advice on what to tell the kids.

I did a search on the subject in advanced search "Telling the kids," and had a bunch of hits. I looked at the older hits and discovered that Mel, Dr. Laura and others had a lot to say on the subject as well as Dr. Harley.

One thread asks if Dr. Harley is the only one who advocates telling the kids.

We do have one forum here on the effect of adultery on kids. Look at it for some ideas.

With a lump in my throat and a caveat or two, here is what I think I have learned:

"Boys, we have a problem as a family. Your dad has been doing things with other women he should only do with mommie because of his marriage promises. This is unacceptable to me.

"Boys, it is ok to love your dad and I do too, but I don't love what he is doing.

"Boys, it is my job to keep you safe. Your dad has been taking money that belongs to the family and using it just for himself. This is wrong.

"Boys, I have left your dad because of what he is doing. We are on our own now and we will make it and I will keep you safe.

Best I can do to get it age appropriate. And it is just my idea, subject to the input of others.

Larry

TX

Here is what Mark has to say on the subject:


Guess it must be the holiday weekend. Normally, you would have three or four commenting on a subject concerning kids.

Larry

Well Justagirl,

I've been on this sight a long time. And most of the advice from everyone is to tell the kids in an age approrpiate manner. You also want to do it in such a way that the kids can have a relationship with the other spouse. That is important.

I believe even Dr. Phil suggests such an approach because kids do seem to take on problems that have nothing to do with them, if their security is threatened. A divorce threatens security. They need to know at least one parent will tel them the truth.

As for your H, given his track history (and not withstanding your own affair), I think it is clear it is time to pull the plug. I would hire a very aggressive and good lawyer; going cheap is never a good idea in the law business. You want experience and a strong track record.

I say aggressive because I would suspect your H will fight this tooth and nail, because now you are attacking something loves almost as much as cheating, his money. He will try to hide his money is my bet.

I would suggest a legal separation but if memory serves me correctly that is not allowed in the "Great State of Texas".
I do love it down there and have family there.

It is time to end this as it is an ongoing issue that he does not want to address.

However, having said all of that, I would strongly urge you to read the articles on this site and Harley's book Surviving an Affair. Why? You want to carry as little baggage as possible from this mess as possible and you want to learn from this experience. You did not deserve the treatment you have received but it is clear from your own affair that you don't have the tools for a good relationship and you need them if your next one is to be a healthy and happy one. Learn from all of this and make positive changes in you. Thus the chances of a successful relationship down the road will be greatly enhanced AND you will be able to teach your kids many many useful concepts as they advance into relationships.

I hope what I have said is of help to you.

God Bless,

JL

Here is a real kicker:

Can I get alimony?

Although getting temporary spousal support (while the divorce is pending) is very common, it is unusual to get post-divorce alimony. You can get post-divorce alimony if you qualify. There are several factors involved which would need to be discussed with your attorney.

This is from a Texas Attorney's site.

Heh heh. . .

Larry