My husband lost his job over 8 months ago and has slowly withdrawn from me emotionally feeling worthless unable to support our family financially. He began an online friendship while I was at work and 3 months ago he cheated on me with this friend he met online. He claims he was only meeting her for dinner and they ended up having sex. It happened only once and immediately claims he realized it was a mistake that just happened and he has no further explanations for it. He has since ended his friendship and has committed himself to our marriage. His remorse seems genuine and he attempts to make me feel loved often. We have been in marriage counseling and both have had individual and joint sessions. We have made progress, but I am still having problems forgiving him and trusting him again. Our counselor agrees his affair was about his lack of self worth and was just a stupid mistake. It seems he had convinced our counselor that he loves me and has found this new devotion to me. The problem is now me because I can�t move on and I can�t seem to trust him, or get the act of sex with another woman out of my mind. Our counselor says it will just take time for me to feel better about trusting him. I don�t want to get hurt again. We have 2 small children who love him dearly and I still love him but I feel stupid for wanting to make my marriage work after he destroyed the trust I had for him. I can�t seem to get her out of my mind and when he tries to be intimate with me, I think of her. My counselor says I just need to forget the past, I may never forgive him, but I just need to move on with my life and not think of her on a daily basis because it is not productive to making my marriage work I have read the articles on this site about meeting emotional needs and receiving just compensation. Although we are reconnecting emotionally, I still feel stupid for loving someone and wanting our marriage to work with someone who violated my trust and our marriage. I want to forgive him, but I feel like I am still holding on to the pain, and don�t know why, other than the fear of getting hurt. Any help and advice you can give me about learning to forgive and learning to trust again would be appreciated.

I am sorry that you find yourself in this situation, Joan and I am very sorry for your pain. I have been there and worked my way through it as has most everyone else here. You have found the best place for support and advice and MB is the best plan for recovering your M.

That said, trust must be earned. I would also dump any M counselor that tells you to get over it and move on. can you afford to counsel with the Harleys? Check out the Coaching Center on this site and read everything you can get your hands on. Order the books and come here to vent and seek advice.

How long have you been married, Joan. How did you find out about his A? The pros will be along soon to help you out and the rest of us will be cheering you on.

God's Blessings,

Say

You are with friends Joan, you will get great advise on here. The thing about us here is we all have been in your shoes...I still am wearing your shoes, lol.

I found my MC to suck when it came to most things about my wifes A's. One time I asked her has she ever cheated, or had someone who cheated on her? I did this because she seemed to not understand how hurt I was, how I trusted someone with my heart 100%...she said it was naive to do so. She said I left myself vulnerable, me, I am creating my own pain. In a sense she was right, but I wasn't making up what happened.

She said she never had anyone cheat on her...so I said, then you can not possibly understand the pain I am in.

We do understand Joan.

Trust, that's a big one 'PB'....you've seen my signature that I borrowed from you, right?

Yes.
You can borrow whatever you like, anytime.

I love your current quote Pepper...I am going to rinse, lather, repeat that until it sinks in.

Thanks to everyone of the advice so far.
We have been married 15 years. I do believe he was suffering from depression during this time. It doesn't make me feel better that he admits the affair was a stupid mistake or that his depression or lack of selfworth may have contributed to the affair. I feel it should never have happened. He has done all the things recommended by this site (ending the affair, attempts to make ammends, reconnect), so when will it feel right to forgive him? I personally feel that forgiving him essentially tells him that it was OK to hurt me. He is adamant that this will never happen again, part of me believes him, part of me is still hurt that the affair happened at all. I feel stuck, with the desire to forgive him and make all this go away. The pain of betrayal is overwhelming at times. I look at him and wonder why he did this, and he just doesn't have an answer other than it was a stupid mistake that will never happen again. So I am stuck on getting over it, forgiving, and attempting to be happy again. How will I know when it is OK to forgive? Is it really true that people can be happier after reconnecting from an affair? It is just so hard to believe and so disappointing that it would take an affair for him to realize how much he loves me. He should have know that before!!

Joan, I can't speak for everyone, however I still feel exactly like you, almost 6 months post Dday.

The topic of if you forgive your WS does that mean you approve what they did, or you're saying it was ok....once again, I still feel EXACTLY the same, and so did a lot of other people.

I received good advise, its just so hard to implement such when you feel so hurt and betrayed.

It seems I am at the anger phase, (6 months)...boy are they right about that too.

Joan, I believe forgiveness comes just before trust returns.

Some people here say that can take up to two years.

But that depends on the person/people.

You have to give time time.

Joan have you done the EN and LB questionaires together? Have you read His Needs Her Needs, Love Busters and Surviving An Affair? Are you spending at least 15 hours a week of recreatioal time together? Do you have feelings of love for your BH in spite of the fact that you can't yet find it in your heart to forgive him? How did you find out about the A?

God's Blessings,

Say

Fred, we are almost three years past D-Day and where as I forgave within six months, trust has not totally returned. I could not begin to heal personally or relationally before forgiving my DH but I still occasionally check his cell phone. Trust is a very fragile thing and since O&H is my greatest EN, any hint of dishonesty can still rock my trust. That is just an unfortunate fallout from an A.

God's Blessings,

Say

"Trust - but verify." -- Ronald Reagan

Only you can say if trust has returned, saynomore, so I wouldn't presume to put words in your mouth.

At some point, isn't "checking up" different than "not trusting?"

Utter trust is utter foolishness. That's a Harley lesson.

Trust, funny thats what Larry and I are talking about on another thread. He said the same thing about Dr. Harley....I trusted fully, unconditionally, and I got messed up big time.

Joan, I'll encourage my wife to chime in for you, 'cuz the only way I've got any credibility is through her.

Some of us do make unbelieveably stupid, selfish choices. I know you're looking for an answer as to "Why" he did what he did; and although there are explanations that are clinically logical (the Harley answers -- his having poor boundaries, allowing someone else to fill his unexpressed, unmet emotional needs), the fact that those explanations are logical doesn't make them satisfying. Clinically, the choices I made when I chose to get into an affair make some sense, but when I look at my wife and all that she is, and then look at what I did, there just is no answer that satisfies even ME; so how could any answer really satisfy HER? In this respect -- not clinically, but morally speaking -- it was an act of senseless selfishness -- by definition, you can't make sense of it.

Again, I will let her tell you, not me, since you've got no reason to believe me, but yes, it is possible for people to have a closer, deeper, better relationship after reconnecting in the wake of an affair, than they had before the affair. In a way, that may sound surprising. But if the relationship was such, beforehand, that the affair occurred, then maybe the pre-affair relationship shouldn't be idealized. From everything I've read & experienced myself, when a couple recovers & builds a better relationship, it's not because of the affair; it's because of what the two spouses did afterwards to reconnect & make their relationship better than it had been before.

I do think your definition of forgiveness is a little off. I still haven't wrapped my arms all the way around the concept of forgiveness, so incomprehensible does it seem to me after what I've done; but my wife says I've got hers, and I'm in no position to look a gift horse in the mouth. I do think I understand enough of it to see that forgiving doesn't mean it was OK for him to hurt you. If it was OK, then there would be no need to forgive.

To this I'd just add that at only 3 months past d-day, you're very early-on in the process of recovery. It is a marathon, not a sprint. Over thirteen months out, my wife & I still have things we wrestle with & periodically get depressed over; and most of what's said by more experienced people on these boards is that 2 years is a rule-of-thumb minimum time for most people to feel essentially "recovered." (Again, that's a minimum, in the best-case relationships.) So don't be kicking yourself for not feeling alright with everything, just 3 months out. It's important that your husband still be doing his part as well, in terms of how he treats you, how open/honest/transparent he is, how much effort he puts into meeting your emotional needs, and how fully he acknowledges that selfishness in his past behavior, which lies at the core of why people get into affairs. If there are things he could be doing better at, do say so. But this is to hold out a candle of hope for ya that things can get better.

Nice one Pep.

Larry

Ok, here's my two cents: You have been hurt in a way that you had no control over avoiding, and that makes it so much worse. You want it all to go away. I'm right there with you, sister, but it ain't gonna happen. You can forgive your husband but you will never forget. It is not minimizing what he did to you to forgive him, it is just showing your strength. So, your choice is to run away (which I don't think you want to do), or dig in and do the hard work of recovery.

And it is hard. You need to spend ALOT of time with your husband, talking, sharing, enjoying one another and sometimes you will not want to. This man was someone you trusted and now you don't. How can you believe a word that comes out of his mouth? The only answer I have is by talking to him and getting answers to your questions, and by analyzing his actions as he works to regain your trust. You need to be brutally honest with him about what you're feeling, without being disrespectful and hurtful. He needs to be willing to share information with you that he would like to protect you from. "It will never happen again" is a good start but there is really no reason for you to believe that right now because you probably thought "It'll never happen". That was wrong and so alot of other things must be wrong, too. It will take alot of time, alot of talking and alot of loving actions on his part to get you to the point where you can believe it'll never happen again.

I will say that after 13 months I don't blindly trust my husband, but I do trust that he loves me and is looking out for my best interest. I got to that point by seeing him work hard for our recovery. Actions speak so much louder than words.

Our marriage before the A was good, but there were things that were lacking that neither of us took the time to identify. Yes, my H made a horrible choice and we have had to recover from that, but our M is so much better now because of the adoption of MB principles in our relationship.

As for the intimacy issue and managing images in your head, I agree with Pep. Reclaim what is rightfully yours. I looked at sex as a way of pushing the OW out of our lives. If my DH has a fresh memory of me being intimate with him, then why would he need to reminicse about her? I also asked him if she was better at something, how she was better, etc. If your H has a brain he will take that as an opportunity to compliment you, give you a renewed passion for him, and maybe give you some new ideas to try. GloveOil was very helpful to me, telling me that it wasn't the sex per se that he was after with the OW, it was the connection. Now I know I am filling that connection.

I know you're early in this recovery process, but please be encouraged. You can get through this and you will not always be constantly thinking about this A. It gets better.

Do you have anyone with whom you can confide all of this? My best friend was a phenomenal help in this situation, letting me cry on her shoulder, bounce ideas off of her, and just let me talk when I needed to work through something. Does your husband have anyone to hold him accountable? He needs a male friend who is pro-marriage helping him through this as well. I felt so much better about my DH when I knew he was in close communication with Godly men who knew everything and supported him through recovery.

Dear Joan,

I'm four years out from d-day.

There is not an answer for me to the "why did he do it" question. I don't think there ever will be one, and somewhere in there I think I have kind of let go of the great need to know why. Maybe there comes an acceptance phase that it happened, and the "why" escapes me and always will. That isn't to say I have altogether stopped wondering - I just have stopped dwelling on it so much. I realize that I cannot focus there, because too much time would be lost on a futile exercise.

As for forgiveness, you are asking to know WHEN to do that.

You cannot ask that - because forgiveness isn't something you give on a timetable. Forgiveness is offered when you are ready, because it is sort of like a mountain in the distance - you are walking toward it, and you can see it there, on the horizon. You walk on that path toward the mountain, and each step takes you closer and closer to it. The whole time, however, while you watch the mountain get larger and larger, and seem insurmountable, you are already starting the climb and you don't even realize it.

Each step you take toward the mountain is one step on the rise to the top. And then somehow that mountain disappears - because you are on the mountain itself. You are working on forgiving, on climbing the mountain, step by step. Sometimes you go downhill, and other times uphill. But all on the path to the top.

Then one day, you walk out of the woods and find yourself at the summit - looking out over the great trek you just made. You can see where you have been, each painful and tough step. And you find yourself having forgiven - not in one moment, not in one step, but in a series of steps and pathways that get you to the top.


Don't expect too much of this forgiveness thing. It won't happen right that moment - and then, just when you least expect it - there it is, right in front of you! So it isn't sudden, and it is. An enigmatic beast, this forgiveness thing.


Stay the course. You will get there. And pay no attention to ANYONE who says, "Just get over it" or "You need to forgive and forget."

They are wrong. Simply. Wrong.

Schoolbus

Yes, we have read sHis Needs Her Nees and Surviving the affair and done the questionaires. We are now spending at least 15 hours a week together which is probably why things are getting better to find that emotional connection again. I do feel love for him, but I also feel a tremendous amount of disappointment because I did not ever expect this would happen to us. He admitted the affair after I confronted him about the OW. Although we are making progress I still feel so hurt that he chose to be with someone else, even if he has now decided that it was a mistake and wants to rebuild our marriage to be better.

Pepperband.....sorrry for the T/J .....thank you so much for your wisdom.... i really needed to hear that tonight.....