You're welcome, Mel...

yankee dawg!!

How does one fix BPD, exactly? I heard about a young man who if he didn't have BPD, had something very like it.

He had to be reminded what was right and what was wrong. Sometimes I find myself having to tell myself the very same thing.

So how does one go about fixing the situation? Often mental diagnoses like this can hurt someone's reputation or image. But as you others have said, if you don't name it you can't tame it.

It takes therapy. A lot of therapy. And an honest willingness to work on improvement by the individual afflicted. Often a difficult mix.

I think that is part of the problem with any mental illness. As far as we think we have progressed as a society, there is still that pervasive, collective urge to create a mental leper colony. Mentally ill? Well, your lot in life is certain and doomed...now go away and don't taint the rest of us with your mental-ness. And no matter how you slice it - that is just wrong. Period. Finito. In addition, certainly one can see the faulty and circular reasoning of the idea: My only flaw as a spouse was choosing a flawed spouse." It's very neat and tidy, and it makes us feel better, but it it's rarely true.

My H could have saod "a-ha! I KNEW it wasn't me" the second I was diagnosed, and he could have made it his mission in life to let everyone know he was the victim of my systematic drive to destroy him....except that isn't true. I could see how that would have comforted him....but it isn't true. I'm not saying it couldn't be true in a minority of cases, but I do not believe it is true in the majority of cases. When I see replicatable studies indicating that all waywards have an undiscovered mental illness and all BS's are perfect except for the fact that they chose an imperfect spouse, then I'll believe it. Because for some people that is what it boils down to. Unfortunately, life really isn't that simple. I think that is what Harley isn't fond of the Freudian, "Tell me about your childhood," focus. I can't change how I was potty trained or whether Mommy loved me enough. I can only change now. The important thing is for any WS to fully admit their 100% responsiblity for their affair and to do whatever is necessary to become a changed person.

Again, I think you need to look at the pre-A behaviors, their histories, and the duration of the post D-day abuse in trying to figure out if you are dealing with a disordered spouse.
If all I had to look at was cheating and a short term abusive gaslighting deal, I would not have reached the conclusion I did about my XWW.

I feel sorry for foks that have been in a relationship with a PD person. It is very tough to heal. No contact, time and therapy seem to help.

Yeah, they missed the NPD part

The family didn't think I was narcissistic, it was my wife's IC..... you know, the IC that had never met me. Thankfully, my wife fired her IC and found someone that was a professional.

Maybe the fam was used to you

They just all think I'm a

The truth is I think they musta been readin' the same book as you....... "The Acme book of Psychological Diagnostics, a quick tutorial", that was published by Warner Brothers.

The way I am looking at things is as humans we are all flawed. No one is perfect. No one is blameless. Part of the analysis is to determine "are you able to influence the outcome"?

It looks to me from what I have read about MB is to arm a person with as many tools as possible to influence the outcome. Can the marriage be saved? Or are there factors that are beyond your ability to influence, and if this is the case then you have to accept that result.

I don't think the issue is to try and vilify the other person but to be aware of all the factors that may be influencing the situation. And there are many factors that can impact the breakdown of a relationship. Once you are aware of the factors then you can make a plan on what MB tools can be implemented to improve the relationship.

The way I interpret the folks that are dealing with a spouse that has a personality disorder is the grief and sadness that they have very little influence or ability to affect the outcome. From what I can understand the other party has to come to a place of willingness to implement MB principles. With a personality disorder or (immaturity) that likely hood is severely restricted.

So the betrayed spouse has a collage of emotions to deal with. Part of the grief process for some can be trying to understand how and why the relationship blew up. Some are able to accept that it did not work and is able to quickly move on. For others it takes much longer. It depends on the make up of the individual.

As we congregate here we are all in various stages of recovery, healing, grief, sadness, anger, disbelief, shock, acceptance.... part of the therapy to keep moving is getting it out there, commiserating with others who understand.

For those that are able to recover your relationship I celebrate your success. MB worked for you. MB has great concepts and principles. However there are some who's relationship blew apart, and are still working through the process of recovering personally. The breakdown of a relationship is a very personal matter, the feeling of personal failure lurks in the shadows, the lingering question is, "what else could I have done to save my marriage?" It is pretty safe to assume that most here want to succeed in recovering the marriage. What do those that were not successful do? I think they want to try and figure out why so it does not happen again. Part of that may be examining that a PD handcuffed their efforts.

**edit**

NARCISSIST
In Greek mythology, a beautiful youth who fell in love with his own reflection. He was the son of the river god Cephissus and the nymph Leriope. His mother was told by a seer that he would have a long life, provided he never saw his own reflection. His callous rejection of the
nymph Echo or of his lover Ameinias drew upon him the gods' vengeance: he fell in love with his own image in the waters of a spring and wasted away and died for love of himself.

The ancients obviously had all the same problems that we suffer now. The story graphically illustrates in metaphoric terms the workings of the mind of the narcissist

A narcissist has difficulty in recognizing the needs and feelings of others and is dismissive contemptuous and impatient when others try to share or discuss their concerns or problems.They are also oblivious to the hurtfulness of their behaviour,show emotional coldness ,exhibit envy when others receive recognition and are are quick to blame others when their needs and expectations are not met

They have fragile self esteem, are emotionally immature and spend a great deal of their lives creating situations where they can be the centre of attention.It maybe that the need for attention is inversely proportional to emotional maturity At the same time the n feeds on popularity and can be very charming especially to people who can be useful.

They have only one script ,their life is a movie-- they are the star , everyone else is cast in a supporting role .Needless to say keeping this kind of show on the road is highly stressful .Someone has to take responsibility for keeping reality at bay .This role is mainly assigned to the nearest and dearest who are expected to absorb unwanted negative emotions.So that whenever the narcissist is upset they can transfer all those feelings to someone else causing someone else to be more angry and upset than they are.

This gives the narcissist a sense of power and relief .

An affair can truly be called a conceit. it is the ultimate attention seekers dream come true especially when two narcissistic people are locked in isolation mutually admiring one another. Each is mirroring the other as they search endlessly for perfection.A narcissist has no concept of himself and can only see himself through the eyes of another.He is an actor who never leaves the stage and is completely reliant on the approval of others for his own sense of self worth.

There is something of the narcissist in all of us but some have the insight to appreciate that this behaviour is self defeating it is hard to find another person who will love you as much as you love yourself.

For tst

I'm new...so glad to find this topic.

Still barely married to a narcissist with 4 A's under his belt (that I know of).

I'm just struggling to find solid ground.

G from T

Sorry to hear about your problem with multiple As. Serially is bad enough. All at the same time sounds like a huge deal breaker.

It is probably better for you to start your own thread and introduce yourself outlining the the story of your life so far. There are decisions to be made,you will get plenty of good advice here.

If you want to discuss personality disorder stick around on this one although there is some difference of opinion here about the validity of the concept of the mental status of the WS

Would be interested hear your views on the subject

Started my own thread - "In need of tough love"...

About the personality disorder thing...

As far as diagnosis, PD's can't be diagnosed until the person is an adult. Children usually show predispositions but can't receive the diagnosis.

I have concluded I am married to (but in the process of disentangling myself from) a man with narcissistic personality disorder. His patterns of behavior have systematically affected every significant relationship he has. I've learned this to be true (while suspecting it anyway) over the past few days while finally having a series of conversations with my MIL and SIL.

I pulled this off a website about diagnosis as there are multiple levels to diagnosing mental health issues and PD's are diagnosed at a different level than other psychological problems:

"""On the first level, or axis, major mental disorders that are considered to be "clinical disorders" are diagnosed. These are the disorders that most people think of when they think of psychological conditions (e.g., major depressive disorder, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder).

On the second axis, disorders that are long-standing are diagnosed. This is the level where personality disorders are diagnosed, and it is the reason they are often called "Axis II" disorders. This system of separating out personality disorders on to a separate axis was developed so that the person doing the assessment would not pay so much attention to the sometimes more obvious Axis I conditions that they overlook the personality disorders or other long-standing conditions.""""

I think though we're all looking for a "why?" - Why did he/she do it? - especially if you're the BS. Maybe for some people a diagnosis of a personality disorder helps answer that why. For others, I think giving any mental health diagnosis to a WS feel like "letting them off the hook" for their behavior - like the WS just couldn't help him/herself.

For me, in my situation, it's just sad. WH will not take responsibility for his behaviors - it's always "everyone else has the problem" He certainly would argue that he does not have a PD. His A's (3 of them back to back in 2008) were a way of "collecting women". He wanted trophies for his case. He told me once the women he involved himself with were seen as "unattainable" by other men so those were the women who made him feel the best about himself. Frankly, I've had enough of being his tarnished trophy wife.

This whole entry may sound scattered - I'm just typing as a thought comes to me. Also, anyone have any thoughts/info on Addictive Personality? A therapist my WH saw last year said he had addictive personality traits.

I think the multiple A's and the history you have obtained justify your researching a PD.
My XWWs both had histories of involvements with married men. And, like you, I got a lot of information about their pasts from their families , of all places
The willingness of the cheater's family to support you and to disclose info that shed's light on the type of person you were dealing with is telling. I think it comes about because they ahve witnessed their family member doing this type of thing to people in the past. I think they have also had run ins with the cheater, themselves, althoug, obviously, not of the infidelity variety. Thee finally say, "enough" and step in to try to let you know it was not your fault.
As I have said before, cheating can open one's eyes to things that we denied about our spouse. I knew that things were not right and that I was being emotionally abused. But, the disordered are very adept at isolating you and convincing you that you are the cause of their rage and all problems in the marriage.
Funny, in every other aspect or relationship in my life, I did fine. I got along with people and there was mutual respect and affection. I could not figurte out why the one person that was supposed to really love me, disliked/hated me so much.
Researching PDs made it all make sense.
Best book I read on it was in laymen's terms, by an engineer who had been married to an abusive PD wife. His name is Richard Skerritt and the book was " Meaning from Madness". It was like the guy had been privy to my entire marriage.

My stepdaughter was clinically diagnosed BPD. I never researched it, so I had no idea of the cause. I certainly had no reason to think her mother might have been the reason, much less be similarly afflicted. Until the very last day.

What I remember vividly was a comment made by my stepdaughter just moments before the two of them piled into the car to leave for WW's new apartment. I had made a comment to the effect, "four marriages she's had that she left. The common element there was WW." To which my stepdaughter replied (probably more significantly than even she realized):

"You should have looked at that before you married her."