Derrah, I have not truly read through your entire thread, but the alcoholism and some of the stuff you are going through I experienced and understand.

My question - Did SH tell you how to approach your WH about talking with him? What he told me was to work on getting yes answers, namely wouldn't it be the best possible outcome if you were to fall in love with your children's mother? My WH said yes to that. I then opened up to him about some of the stuff I was learning about how I had made mistakes in the marriage.

I wasn't strong enough or focused enough to get a solid answer, but I was wondering how SH told you and how we can help you there.

The decision begins and ends with deciding what you want:

A project? To rehab his low self esteem, alcoholism, destructive parenting behavior and redeem his soul from the hell he's created in his life?

Or a partner? Someone who will step up and say you are worth all the effort and work it would take to win you back and win the heart and confidence of his daughter back?

He could become either man. But one thing is for certain. If you will welcome back a project, he will be a project. If you refuse the project, he will have to choose to become a partner, or get out of your life.

Get thyself to Al-Anon NOW/Yesterday. And start learning how to refuse to accept any more projects in your life and terminate all relationships with projects right now. They are not rewarding. They will suck the life out of you and out of everyone who loves you.

I hope you are hearing me!

When my WH called in September, wanting to right his ways and come home, my three conditions were:
1. treatment for alcohol
2. no OW
3. we get professional help
He agreed to do all three of these in September. He has managed to slide his way out of each condition.

Three strikes we're out?! What do I do with this?

He is not in any recovery program for alcohol.

He feels he has learned to deal with the triggers on his own and is better able to manage his loneliness.

He is also in contact with OW.

He said there is no relationship, but they talk occasionally.

He is not willing to work on the marriage - go to counseling, etc - and says there is no point if my daughter is refusing to see him.

he continues to blame me for the affair (I didn't keep the house clean enough, I gained weight, I didn't put his name of the account of an inheritance I received from a family member).

I told him that if we worked on the marriage it would not be possible for him to be in relationship with the OW. He said he disagrees.

He also said he is not willing to rehash any details of the affair for me.

Said he is only willing to move forward.

Three strikes we're out?! What do I do with this?

Three strikes we're out?! What do I do with this?

He agreed to do all three of these in September. He has managed to slide his way out of each condition.

He has managed to slide his way out of each condition.

You know, if this were happening to a friend, it would seem more clear. My heart is tied though... clouding my perception.

You know, if this were happening to a friend, it would seem more clear.

I found out when my DD(15) got on to his computer to look for some photos she had taken of an art exhibit some time ago. While DD was on the computer, she found a close up photo of their genitals, topless photos of this woman, and photos of the two of them at a baseball game where we live. My daughter sleuthed out the OW�s personal info by getting onto my WH�s Skype and email accounts. She tracked the frequency of their calls and pulled up emails of the two of them professing their love for each other and my husband talking descriptively to the other woman about their sexual encounters. My daughter emailed all of this information to her email account.

That night, my DD told my sister and the two of them told me.

I confronted WH. At first he denied until I told him about what our daughter had found. WH quickly became irate and blamed DD for being on his computer. He stormed into her room and yelled, �Why did you do this to me?� My daughter replied, �Why did I do this to you? Why did you do this to us? Why did you do this to mom? Don�t you love us?� To which he replied to DD, �No, I do not love you.� WH agreed to talk to me. As he was leaving the house, he tried to bar my sister from comforting my now sobbing daughter. DD stayed with her cousin that night and for several nights after that.

It is the fear that paralyzes you, sends blood rushing through your veins, sours your stomach, and interupts your sleep. It is the fear that gives away your power, your hope, and your forgiveness. It is fear that robs you of the active self and traps you in the role of patronizing enabler who will take them back at ANY cost...even if the price is too high. It is fear that keeps you from confronting and exposing. And fear that prevents you from enforcing your boundaries and having compassion for yourself.

Fear of abandonment.
Fear of rejection.
Fear of reaction....yours, theirs.
Fear of future...the unknown.
Fear of destitution and want.
Fear of failure.
Fear of losing.
Fear of loss.
Fear of solitude.
Fear of settling.
Fear of change.
Fear of lack of change.
Fear
Fear

Infidelity creates FEAR....and fear is crippling. Research shows us what we already know in our hearts....when we are fearful....we are unable to fire up the parts of our brains that "process" information on a logical, rational, spirtual level and create solutions that increase the odds for success in crises. When we are fearful....we don't use our neocortex....but instead, it is our limpic system which lights up our MRIs....our animal brains wired for "fight or flight".

There is no HOPE in our animal brains....because our indentity, our souls, our compassion....don't reside there. You are only capable of conflict or escape when you are there....so you must find a quiet place to deal with your fears so that you can confront, expose, do all the things that overcoming infidelity entails....all the things that happiness entails. You must value yourself as well as protect yourself, without fear of losing your WS or enforcing boundaries.....because if you don't....all your fears will be realized anyway.

MB is not designed to trap you in a marriage where your feelings are crushed and disrespected or the vows of marriage are meaningless. It's designed to help you overcome fear and give you hope that marriages CAN recover from infidelity....but you must be brave and be willing to risk losing your WS in order to regain trust, fidelity, security.

You must be willing to see beyond your pain and take logical and systematic steps to undermine the affair and increase the stability and security of your marriage. That takes courage above pain. It takes the peacefulness of knowing you are strong enough to lose a self indulgent and unrepentant spouse or recover with a flawed, but motivated one.

Don't let your fear take back a spouse who isn't ready to do the hard work recovery after infidelity entails. It is an invitation for misery.

If you don't believe you CAN survive without your WS....you cannot do what you must do to ensure success.

Stop being fearful of their threats...they are just excuses to leave or be selfish.

Stop being fearful of their reactions....their reactions arise from their guilt...not your boundaries.

Stop being fearful of taking a stand....it's the only way to gain respect or trust.

Stop being fearful of being alone.....until you can stand on your own and risk losing them, you will NEVER know if they remain with you by choice. And you will never know if you want them or you NEED them.

And if you need them....even if they return....you are in trouble chere.