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{{{{HBH}}}}}, I'm going to take this in a bit of a different angle for a sec....so bear with me. I KNOW your pain..... I KNOW your anger....(God help me I DO....Angry Outburst's I am queen of....) I KNOW your frusteration..... I have been where you are TODAY.... That being said, What have you done for HBH???.... I would seriously consider going STRAIGHT to your Dr. and tell them what you are going through. What you are dealing with. Are you currently taking any meds. or AD'S?.... If not, I would look into that option. It is not a sign of weakness to get medicinal help in dealing with the he77 that you are in. It is a sign of strength to know when we need it. Even if you don't think you need to go that route, you should get a physical anyway. This is a HUGE stressful time that WILL take a toll on your physical health as well as your mental health (I lost a gall-bladder by the time my H's affair was over.....  ...nothing like losing body parts...). I HIGHLY recommend you do this..... As far other ways to help manage your anger..... Excercise....I like to suggest a kick-boxing class and also some yoga. The kick-boxing is a GREAT way to get out that pent up frusteration and anger. For a LONG time, I would imagine H or OW when vigorously punching.....  ....the yoga helped to clear my mind of all the crazy-making Talking LONGGGGGG walks when a fight would ensue......getting that breather would help me to get my thoughts together so I could get calm instead of enraged.... Long DRIVES..... SPA TREATMENTS!!!!!!....pedi anyone???... Anyway, these are a few things you can do in order to help HBH. It is most important that you take care of YOU. Your kids need that...... I am truly sorry for your pain..... not2fun
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Thanks for the posts everyone...encouragement is needed  BCBoy...It is ok to be a girl I am just not a very emotional person, the last 5 months notwithstanding. Thanks for the post...I bought 5 sessions of counseling..talked to them today...the first session is with Steve Harley. Drgnfly..we are doing the online program now...but there have been suggestions to actually go for the weekend seminar, so I was just waiting til things calmed down a little to talk to WH about that...and we printed out the EN questionaire last nite...you must have ESP I don't know the right answer to the question you and JL poised about WH's "role". Before the PA, I would have said with 100% certainity that he knew...but now, I don't know anything anymore... WH and I really had a great relationship from my perspective...we are very fortunate in our lives, travelled alot, went on dates at least 2-3 times a week, threw parties, just had fun with each other...I have talked to WH, although limited, about where I missed the mark...he keeps saying that it was just him...but everything I read on MB says if his EN were met, then no PA...so, maybe he just isnt ready to tell me.. As far as 15 hrs a week, WH and I spend 24 hrs a day together, whether or not its a good 24 hrs is a different story Today was a good day...he took me to a movie So, yes we spend a lot of time together...just need to work on making it quality time... Not2Fun...Thanks for the re-post...I read it earlier, just forgot to comment..no on the ADs...and I hear what you are saying about taking care of myself...I haven't been excerising since the move...its a sore spot for me right now...WH is a exercise nut...think 6 pack abs...and I had 3 kids in 4 yrs...OW was 20-something...get the picture??? But, I know I need to get back into the gym...the long walks and drives, WH and I go daily...if its a good day,the walks are pleasant...if its drama-filled, we usually drive around until we are done But I get it...take care of myself Raven...sleep...neither one of us sleep well anymore...I have nightmares...I've never had a nightmare before this...the worst dream I've ever had was the one where you are falling...but I have terrible dreams...WH says I cry and talk in my sleep...I just hope everything gets better with time... Off to do our online MB for a while...thanks for the support
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but everything I read on MB says if his EN were met, then no PA...so, maybe he just isnt ready to tell me.. This is often a subject of debate around here. You will hear over and over that the BS contributed 50% to the state of the marriage, but the WS contributed 100% to the decision to have an affair. There's a recent thread here somewhere where some of us decided that meeting ENs is how you get a great marriage - not how you stop someone from cheating. Meeting ENs will NOT stop anyone from cheating when they're just trying to have their cake and eat it, too. It won't stop anyone who wants both the comfort and security of marriage *and* all the fun and excitement of dating and see no reason why they shouldn't have both. Meeting ENs in the marriage makes them extra happy, but does nothing to create fidelity. Think about it. Some of the most beautiful and gracious women in the world have been blatantly cheated on - Jackie Kennedy, Princess Diana, Elizabeth Taylor and Halle Berry just to name a few. I agree with your husband on this one. It wasn't you. It wasn't you.
Me, BW
WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
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Eh, Liz was quite the cheater, herself. Ask Debbie Reynolds.
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It wasn't you. It wasn't you. x2
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Eh, Liz was quite the cheater, herself. Ask Debbie Reynolds. Wasn't Diana as well?
ManInMotion
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(see "MiM's Story" for more details)
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he keeps saying that it was just him...but everything I read on MB says if his EN were met, then no PA...so, maybe he just isnt ready to tell me.. Yes, it was just him that made the decision to have an A. YOU HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS A. He could have done a dozen other things instead - taken up drinking, drugs, divorce, etc. He CHOSE to have an A. Do NOT ever take any blame for what he chose to do. As for the EN's being met or not being met pre-A, that is a different topic. I'm just trying to figure out what role he has and what his top ENs are. Does he feel needed? Does he need to feel appreciated? Trying to meet ENs and avoid LBs are things you do to recover your marriage. The A is done and over, and unfortunately you can never undo that. What you can do is meet his ENs and avoid LBs for the rest of your life. Be the best YOU you can be. Not only for him, but for yourself as well. You will feel better about yourself when you aren't LBing all the time. It's exhausting.
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but everything I read on MB says if his EN were met, then no PA...so, maybe he just isnt ready to tell me.. As Mulan said, this is often a subject of debate around here. On d-day, as I sat sobbing in our backyard, I cried out to FWH "what did I do to deserve this????". I knew nothing about affairs and thought it was all my fault. FWH lowered his head and whispered "You did nothing to deserve this...it was all me.". And you know what? As fogged out as he was, he was correct. An affair is really more about the WS having weak boundaries than about ENs not being met. Here is the formula I believe in: Weak Boundaries + ENs Being Met = Affair (or CAN) Weak Boundaries + ENs NOT Being Met = Affair (or CAN) Strong Boundaries + ENs Being Met does NOT equal an A. Strong Boundaries + ENs NOT Being Met does NOT equal an A. The common denominator in an A is WEAK BOUNDARIES, not whether or not ENs are being met. If a person has weak boundaries, all of their ENs could be met perfectly and they could STILL have an A. If a person has strong boundaries they will not have an A...ENs being met does not matter one bit. This is not your fault, h_b_h. This is ALL on your H.
Me,BW - 42; FWH-46 4 kids D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006 D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR) Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007 In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks.
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One thing that helped me wrap my puny brain around the concept that the decison to cheat has nothing to do with the BS was to realize that one need not be perfect or have a marriage without problems to justify the expectation of fidelity. Our vows made no exception for this. And, no spouse is perfect. No marriage is without problems.
If the standard is that the only folks that deserve fidelity are the perfect spouses in perfect marriages, then everyone would be justified in cheating.
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H H,
Was't your appt. with the Harley's today???
How did it go??
My prayers are with you....
Not2fun
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""The common denominator in an A is WEAK BOUNDARIES, not whether or not ENs are being met""I totally agree, PLUS selfish, self-centered, search for self-gratification and entitlement. Self absorbed, SELF INDULGING. I think the wayward loves themselves more than the betrayed.  One more detail could be the little SWF tart, being there all the time, pursuing him, tempting him, looking for her drama and excitement...course he could have told you to fire her butt too.. imho kirk
CORDUROY PILLOWS ARE MAKING HEADLINES!!
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Thanks for the feedback...WH used to have boundaries...he called it "avoiding the appearance of impropiety"....basically neither one of us put ourselves in a bad sitch..ever...and we really lived our lives together almost 24/7, drove to work together, worked, drove home together, etc... I just need to know how and why this happened so that it never happens again... When WH explains the A to me, he says that it was the "perfect storm": 1: he was "in a bad place"...felt bad about getting older, trying to compete with younger guys (he played semi-pro football) basically having a mid-life crisis 2: we weren't focusing 100% on us like we normally did in the months leading up the A...I had just had a baby, we were expanding the business...nothing bad going on...just LIFE..we still dated, travelled, but... 3: SWF: he just says he was TOO comfortable with her...and then the flirting started and she just did/said everything right....examples: I told him he didn't need to play football again (injuries!!!...HE NEEDS A SURGERY TO FIX IT!!!) she says he's too awesome not to play...I tell him no more tattoos...she tells him she thinks it would look great...I could go on and on...but basically, whatever I said, she said the opposite...basically she was the opposite of me...barely finished HS, no self-esteem, drama-filled life... Counseling session with Steve was moved to Monday @ 9:30 a.m.... We filled out the questionairres today...it occured to me as I filled out the Love Bank Inventory that if I had done that the day before D-Day WH would have gotten a perfect score...sigh 
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I just need to know how and why this happened so that it never happens again... How and why you wrecked a car yesterday WON'T prevent you from wrecking a car in the future...... Make sense?? Making the decision to change the way you drive in the future and establishing some good defensive driving habits (EP's) will greatly diminish the chance of another wreck happening ever again..... Make sense??
Recovery began 10/07;
Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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tst...
ummm...not so much...
WH didn't have a car wreck...car wrecks are accidents...WH chose to drive off a cliff...and now he wants me to get back in the car, trust in the fact that he won't do it again, and I'm not sure I understand why he did it in the first place....
What am I missing?
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and now he wants me to get back in the car, trust in the fact that he won't do it again, and I'm not sure I understand why he did it in the first place....
What am I missing? Nothing. 1. You should never trust you husband 100% ever again, you never should have in the first place. 2. You will never understand WHY he did what he did, don't try. But you may come to understand HOW it came to be.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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tst...
ummm...not so much...
WH didn't have a car wreck...car wrecks are accidents...WH chose to drive off a cliff...and now he wants me to get back in the car, trust in the fact that he won't do it again, and I'm not sure I understand why he did it in the first place....
What am I missing? Your not missing anything HbH My point...... He can examine and answer every question you'll every have and it won't improve your odds of it never happening again! WH MUST create the lifestyle that will prevent him from being vulnerable to an A ever again He did NOT have good boundaries or he never would have had an A. He would have never flirted if he had good boundaries! He MUST create boundaries, the type that Dr. Harley calls Extraordinary Precautions (EP's) Which focus would you like for him to have...... Looking forward and protecting you and your family while he drives or Looking in his rear view mirror all the time trying to see the road behind him?
Recovery began 10/07;
Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Looking foward, definitely Thanks!
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I just need to know how and why this happened so that it never happens again...
Sad fact. But true fact.
Not long after we began counseling, the counselor told us that because I am the way I am (analytical thinker) recovery would be tough.
I see that you and I are somewhat alike.  Sistah !
I do understand your desire to "make sense" of these ugly events.
It will come. Take part in recovery efforts without the "making sense" .... because it takes a long long time to get a handle on it.
The decision to engage in an ugly adultery is not preceded by a risk/cost analysis in their pea-brains.
I'm going to bump a thread for you.
Anatomy of Adultery
Last edited by Pepperband; 02/12/10 01:55 PM. Reason: link added
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Not long after we began counseling, the counselor told us that because I am the way I am (analytical thinker) recovery would be tough. I see that you and I are somewhat alike. Sistah !
I do understand your desire to "make sense" of these ugly events.
It will come. Take part in recovery efforts without the "making sense" .... because it takes a long long time to get a handle on it. I am very much this way as well...what I imagine happening is I will eventually come to a place of acceptance...both that it happenend AND that I will never understand it. I need to accept that I will never understand it and let it go...very hard for me to do.
Me,BW - 42; FWH-46 4 kids D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006 D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR) Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007 In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks.
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And I also wanted to add another thought.
If the BS is an analytical sort,like us, one of the things that makes us go nutz is that it JUST MAKES NO SENSE ! 
If you rage at WH when he gives you nonsensical "reasons" .... it is because it is nonsensical.
Capiche ?
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